Theory: Aona and Skai's Shard Names

[pdxtrent he/him]

Wow, a little intimidating to be throwing this out there(this is my first post), but I keep thinking that 'Sacrifice' is closer to what Skai might be. I think the desire for them to be polarities is a result of Mistborn. Just as I think that Odium is meant closer to hate or despite rather than dishonor, as the Heralds tell us that he can be bound to an agreement(isn't that what the honorpact is?).

The concept of sacrifice would cover both self-sacrifice, and the sacrifice of others.

If this is addressed elsewhere, I'm sorry. I looked.

[Ari he/him]

Skai could also be "control" or "domination", which would make it a good counterpoint to "devotion".

Edited September 12, 2011 by Ari

[Chaos he/him]

Skai could also be "control" or "domination", which would make it a good counterpoint to "devotion".

Oh, ohhhhhhh Ari, that's brilliant. I need to make an award for how excellent an idea this is. Domination feels very Shardy (much moreso than Unity), and that or a synonym fits in perfectly.

[masaru]

Oh, ohhhhhhh Ari, that's brilliant. I need to make an award for how excellent an idea this is. Domination feels very Shardy (much moreso than Unity), and that or a synonym fits in perfectly.

Control and Domination could be synonyms for Order, of course. And Order/Chaos have got to be Shards, right?

[Chaos he/him]

Control and Domination could be synonyms for Order, of course. And Order/Chaos have got to be Shards, right?

Well, of course I'm a Shard

In all seriousness, though, Order and Chaos feel too cliched for Brandon to try.

Domination feels more specific and Shardy than Order, but I totally see what you are saying there.

[masaru]

Well, of course I'm a Shard

In all seriousness, though, Order and Chaos feel too cliched for Brandon to try.

Domination feels more specific and Shardy than Order, but I totally see what you are saying there.

I suppose they are a bit bland, but those concepts seem to be Shard-ish... Order is somewhat the role that Harmony serves now, anyway, a balance.

[Chaos he/him]

True. The other thing, though, is that I would think a classical god of Chaos wouldn't be bound by rules, but we know that Shards are always bound by certain rules.

[Ari he/him]

Control and Domination could be synonyms for Order, of course. And Order/Chaos have got to be Shards, right?

I considered Order too, but it doesn't quite seem to describe the Fjorden culture quite well enough, although I guess it's possible. The great thing about Domination is that it's opposite to Devotion in the same kind of way as Odium is opposite to Honour.

Besides, with the way Honour's power seems to work on Roshar, binding things together through oaths and displays of allegiance, I think Order would actually encroach on that territory a bit.

[darniil he/him]

I suppose they are a bit bland, but those concepts seem to be Shard-ish... Order is somewhat the role that Harmony serves now, anyway, a balance.

Nah, order isn't balance. Order is just one side of a balance. Order is stasis. Immutability. Stagnation. (And, IMO, the equivalent of the pinnacle of what Preservation could have been: keep things the way they are, without deviation.)

Harmony would definitely fit as a balance, but order? Not so much, I'd say.

[Zas678 he/him]

Domination sounds awesome, but I don't think it matches the magic system. How does sacrificing part of yourself cause domination?

The Name of a shard determines how the magic system works for the user.

So for Allomancy, none of your own power is used, so you Preserve your own power.

For Hemalurgy, you have to Ruin someone else, and the net energy from Hemalurgy is less than of Allomancy.

For Awakening, you have to Endow your own power on someone else, and for them to use it, they have to Endow that power to an object.

For Honor, you have to make certain commitments in able to connect with the power (probably).

Now for Aona, I think that having a great commitment for others or for what you are doing (or Love, or Charity, or whatever) gets you chosen by the Shaod, which allows you to give more love and service to others.

On the other hand, the Fjordell (and Skaze assumably, since the Skai are heavily involved), for the Monks to work, you have to Sacrifice yourself, or part of your power, in order to get the powers of heaven put on another man.

Domination may work for the culture, but not for the Shard.

[Chaos he/him]

Did we ask about Sacrifice? At the very least, it's not Obedience.

As good as your logic is, my take is that you're controlling another person's power, which I think makes sense in context.

[Zas678 he/him]

Except that isn't how it works. I don't decide that I want your power- You decide that you're going to give me your power.

True, usually in Dahkor sense that's because I'm telling you to give me your power, but still the energy is still being given up rather than commanded.

Oh wait- I see what you're saying now. You're saying that once the power goes from person A to person B, than person B is dominating person A's power.

That makes sense, but I still think that it's the transfer of power that is most important.

EDIT- grammar

EDIT EDIT- speling of grammer

[Jaconis]

well Aona was already dead by that point, so presumably the mechanism that causes the Shaod is just running on autopilot and not able to adapt to changing circumstances.

I'm a little late to the party for Elantris, as it was the last book of Brandon's that I read, but I have this to add.

Do we know for sure that Aona and Skai are dead when the story of Elantris takes place? We obviously know that they are dead when Hoid? wrote the letter, but we don't know when that was. Presumably, it's during the time of WoK, (although it certainly doesn't have to be), which is hundreds of years after Elantris. In the letter, the writers says something like (heavily paraphrased), "you saw what happened with that fiasco, and the result is two dead shareholders and splintered shards."

I don't think we know enough about the time of Elantris to say definitively they are dead or alive.

[darniil he/him]

I don't think we know enough about the time of Elantris to say definitively they are dead or alive.

I tried looking for the citation, since I was pretty sure that they are dead by the time of the book, but I couldn't find a reference in the wiki.

Once someone more familiar with the nooks and crannies around here finds the source, I think I may update those pages to link to it.

[FeatherWriter she/her]

I'm pretty sure that Aona and Skai being dead during Elantris is a certain thing. I'd check the Brandonothology, but I'm almost positive it's been said right out.

[pdxtrent he/him]

What Brandon has said is that there were no seons when Odium was on Elantris. And yes, it's in the Brandonothology Part 3, Cosmerepalooza:

"Mi’chelle: But was the earthquake caused by Odium?

When Odium visited there were no Seons. "

[Aashyma she/her]

Are Seons splinter of Aona?

• He said that that line of theorising is very close and that we are figuring it out.

Does that help?

[Jaconis]

Does that help?

Returned are splinters of Endowment, so that doesn't necessarily mean Aona or Skai are dead. That said, if Seons are splinters and here weren't any when Odiun visited, then that doesn't seem like it could be coincidence.

[Aashyma she/her]

Returned are splinters of Endowment, so that doesn't necessarily mean Aona or Skai are dead. That said, if Seons are splinters and here weren't any when Odiun visited, then that doesn't seem like it could be coincidence.

If I remember correctly, doesn't the letter-writer mention that Odium caused the Shards to splinter when he destroyed their holders?

Edit:

In case you have turned a blind eye to that disaster, know that Aona and Skai are both dead, and that which they held has been Splintered. Presumably to prevent anyone from rising up to

challenge Rayse.

Edited September 14, 2011 by Aashyma

[Zas678 he/him]

One need only look at the aftermath of his brief visit to Sel to see proof of what I say. In case you have turned a blind eye to that disaster, know that Aona and Skai are both dead, and that which they held has been Splintered.

Many people took that to mean that Aona and Skai's shards Splintered into Seons and Skaze, so when Brandon was asked the following:

"Did Aona and Skai die before the Reod?"

He answered:

"There were Seons before the Reod."

Which leads most people to believe that Aona and Skai were killed before the Reod, and the Seons and Skai are their splinters.

[Aashyma she/her]

One need only look at the aftermath of his brief visit to Sel to see proof of what I say. In case you have turned a blind eye to that disaster, know that Aona and Skai are both dead, and that which they held has been Splintered.

Many people took that to mean that Aona and Skai's shards Splintered into Seons and Skaze, so when Brandon was asked the following:

"Did Aona and Skai die before the Reod?"

He answered:

"There were Seons before the Reod."

Which leads most people to believe that Aona and Skai were killed before the Reod, and the Seons and Skai are their splinters.

There we go-it's not definite but highly likely that Odium killed Aona and Skai.

[Chaos he/him]

Well, there's no indication that Seons are a new thing. I would think they have been around for a long time. That implies Aona and Skai have been gone for a long time.

Edited September 14, 2011 by Chaos

[lordofsoup]

I always had the general impression, that while Aona and Skai might have been dead for an extremely long time, the Reod was caused by Odium, possible on a different visit?

I really want to find out what Odium does when he bumps into Sazed, there is no way that he could have missed an event of such proportions. I bring this up, because I find no reason that Sazed could not put Shards back together, I got the idea that Preservation + Ruin made creation of sorts.

[Aashyma she/her]

I always had the general impression, that while Aona and Skai might have been dead for an extremely long time, the Reod was caused by Odium, possible on a different visit?

I really want to find out what Odium does when he bumps into Sazed, there is no way that he could have missed an event of such proportions. I bring this up, because I find no reason that Sazed could not put Shards back together, I got the idea that Preservation + Ruin made creation of sorts.

The Reod was triggered by an earthquake that created a chasm large enough to be a permanent feature on the map of Arelon.

This messed up the Aons.

[Ari he/him]

Domination sounds awesome, but I don't think it matches the magic system. How does sacrificing part of yourself cause domination?

The Name of a shard determines how the magic system works for the user.

So for Allomancy, none of your own power is used, so you Preserve your own power.

For Hemalurgy, you have to Ruin someone else, and the net energy from Hemalurgy is less than of Allomancy.

For Awakening, you have to Endow your own power on someone else, and for them to use it, they have to Endow that power to an object.

For Honor, you have to make certain commitments in able to connect with the power (probably).

Now for Aona, I think that having a great commitment for others or for what you are doing (or Love, or Charity, or whatever) gets you chosen by the Shaod, which allows you to give more love and service to others.

On the other hand, the Fjordell (and Skaze assumably, since the Skai are heavily involved), for the Monks to work, you have to Sacrifice yourself, or part of your power, in order to get the powers of heaven put on another man.

Domination may work for the culture, but not for the Shard.

It's not very clear exactly how the Fjorden magic system works, but it doesn't really seem related to sacrifice so much as... well, mutation. Domination could work very well depending on how the changes are induced. The problem with guessing shard names is that we don't really have enough information for the ones we don't already know- there are significant pieces of the puzzle missing. We don't even really know what the Skaze are, and if we knew enough about their magic system to use it for evidence here, we wouldn't have had such trouble guessing at which shard Skai held before his death and its Splintering.

And yeah, you got what I meant by domination in your reply to Chaos since- it's not so much about whether the control is surrendered or taken so much as the way that control is used. Domination is where power is concentrated in relatively few hands, and accountability flows "uphill" to your superiors instead of "downhill" to ordinary people, which certainly describes Fjorden.