22 July 2013 - jParker - Ostinato

[jParker]

This is the first chapter in my first novel of a planned series. I look forward to hearing from you all.

[Carcinios he/him]

Lots to say here so let's get started.

 

First a quick list of some small things that made the piece slightly more difficult to read.

1. Naming - I like about half the names. But whilst Rugier is a great name for a fantasy setting (which I'm assuming this is) Henry just falls a bit flat on me. This isn't a big problem and I suspect I will get used to it if I read for long enough but initially it felt a bit off.
2. Pate's thoughts don't work for me. I like that you have tried to get inside his head rather than go for the omniscient viewpoint, there is too little substance to those thoughts 'Those People' is a classic example you can glean that they are some kind of diplomat from the rest of the text but as our POV narrator Pate is failing us quite badly here by not clarifying the issue at all.
3. A lot of the speech felt quite abrupt. People very quickly switching from calm to threatening and then back again. It kind of defuses whatever mood you were trying to create. If you were aiming for threatening you want to build the tension slowly until you get to the point where it explodes into action or resolves in some other way. what you got was several mini climaxes where every one would get very tense and then relax for a short while before getting tense again.

Anyway those were largely stylistic things; I think I had three main problems with the plot as a whole.

 

1. It lacked context. We only know they are there for some kind of dinner and that the state of affairs between the two nations is bad. It would be really helpful to know a little bit of background to the conflict not a huge exposition but maybe a thought from Pate musing on the political situation rather than being as cryptic as he is. This lack of context is compounded because we don't know what they are there to achieve. Why are they bothering with the meal? do they expect it to turn violent? Why are they armed going into it? things like that would set up the scene better because it would allow us to know what constitutes a victory or defeat.
2. The scene doesn't move the plot forward at all. This builds on the first point. They are here for the negotiations but they never do any negotiating. Every time they start to discuss business someone orders their arrest or insults them. We never get the feeling that there is any genuine diplomacy going on here.
3. Finally everything is abrupt. I've mentioned this in speech but it happens everywhere:

• Rugier orders them arrested and then suddenly he's hugging Millar like an old friend
• Pate is suddenly standing with a knife out as if he did it accidently
• Millar runs to capture the fleeing Terecs before the soldiers react at all
• Then Faruco has escaped and Millar has been stabbed.

I found myself confused during the action sequence probably because Pate is also confused.

 

I think there is a lot of stuff you can do to improve this. But one thing I would say was good was that it made me ask questions. I want to know what is going on even though I didn't find out. So post more please

Edited July 22, 2013 by Carcinios

[jParker]

Thanks for the feedback Carcinios. I know it's super rough. I had contemplated cutting it entirely, but yankorro convinced me otherwise. 

 

If you don't mind my asking, what names didn't work for you and why? To be honest, some of them don't work for me, but I needed to have something there. A placeholder is better than nothing.

 

As for posting more, I just finished Chapter Two today. I'm going to go through and revise it and should have it up next week or the week after.

[Carcinios he/him]

It wsan't so much the specific names as the juxtaposition of exotic fantasy names like Rugier and Furuco and the normal names like Patrick and Henry. There are some names which fit into both categories but generally speaking it is better to go with one or the other depending on whether you want High epic fantasy or Low urban fanstasy as your main setting. On the other hand there is a rule which trumps that which is if you like a name for a character then give it to them anyway. But if you are not really attached to them I would try to ditch the normal names.

 

Also I am really glad you decided to go through with posting. It takes a lot of nerves to put your work out for others to see but if it helps you improve it is worth it.

[Mandamon he/him]

I thought this was well written, but agree with Carcinios about the lack of setting.  I really wanted to like the story--I felt like I should like it, but it kind of fell flat.  It's an in media res, but maybe too much "media."  Despite that, this has a lot going for it.  The descriptions of characters are convincing and the setting has enough description for me to get an idea of where and when it is.
I did't have much problem with some names being ordinary and some not.  It sounded like the delegation was from another country.  I more had an issue with so many being introduced with odd names--I had no idea which was which throughout the action.

There were a couple places your writing sounds like you're trying too hard to embelish.  Below are a couple of examples:

pg 1: "slick hands"
--I think you mean they are dextrous, but it sounds like they have oil on them

pg 2: "notorious teetotaler, which only occasionally included teenage boys."
--Tetotaler of...people?  I read that he didn't drink, and then you're talking about boys.

Pg 4: "The doors opened eagerly"
--the doors probably aren't sentient.

The reversal/joke/reversal again also didn't work for me.  Rugier wants them arrested as spies, then is like "nah, JK, let's eat," then insults them again, then does arrest them as spies after a meal.  He could have cut through all that and just arrested them in the first place.  There wasn't even any diplomatting taking place, so why have the whole contingent of dignitaries even show up?

I think this story has definite places it can go, and I like the characters.  Just needs some more outlining and investigation of plot details.  I definitely would like to see more.

[Robinski he/him]

I enjoyed this, and I'm looking forward to reading more. In the mean time, here are my comments, which I hope are useful.

 

Page 1: It’s Miller puffing, not the pipe, presumably.

 

I like the initial tension between Miller and Pate. The dialogue and Pate’s thoughts are short and snappy, which is effective. However, the tossing of the knife seems a bit childish. I doubt that a serious/competent person would do this, so the first opinion I have about Pate is that he’s perhaps not competent and is rather naive, or has a (misplaced) need to try and show off to his superior.

 

Page 2: Technically, I think ‘He forgot how hungry one became...’ I appreciate that using ‘one’ sounds very formal, but ‘...you got...’ doesn’t sound right to me.

 

‘The place had stood...’

 

There are several names thrown at the reader here, and we don’t know what any of them are. Is ‘Rostho Faldera’ the house or building? Is ‘Terec’ a person? Is ‘Carmine’ a country? I think ‘Dyron’s Conquest’ is okay because it seems obvious, but I don’t know if ‘Charing’ is a country or a city.

 

Why would the palace not be beautiful because it is old? Also, I would say that ‘old’ and ‘dignified’ tend to go together, so the notion that these things oppose each other seems odd.

 

I'm puzzled that there are men who appear to be guests leaving through the servant’s entrance to the reception room, especially since we don’t hear anything about them. Then again, maybe I’m supposed to be puzzled. Then again, again, if they are trying not to create suspicion why not just leave by the front door? Unless they are potentially recognisable to someone outside, dunno, just seemed odd.

 

Page 3: The sentence about Faruco doesn’t make sense. Do you mean ‘teetotaller’ to refer to his sexual habits? That would be celibacy.

 

I didn’t know what a caracal was. Googling it, I see is it is the desert lynx. I'm not sure that many people would know that, so I think it’s going to make them break out of the story to Google it, or at least be puzzled before they move on.

 

Not sure about the phrasing in relation to Rugier’s reputation. I think ‘Diplomacy was (is) a difficult enough realm without being preceded by your reputation...’ is clearer.

 

Can a hand be proud? Perhaps ‘...raised a hand in a prideful gesture’? Similarly, I don’t think his voice can be pedantic, maybe his tone? (How’s that for pedantry?!) And surely it’s not pedantic to state either of the two facts that he gives?

 

I do like Rugier’s reaction, (nae messin’, as they say in Glasgow). It would be tempting to let him make a speech, but by omitting that, you show us something about Rugier’s character, nicely done.

 

Page 4: ‘I don’t like ‘Uh-oh’, sounds like Scooby Doo, but I do like the twist, I was definitely suckered by Rugier’s feigned reaction to Pate.

 

Page 5: I don’t like the doors opening ‘eagerly’ they’re wooden doors without emotions, how about ‘readily’ or ‘easily’?

 

The use of ‘forth’ seems out of place when none of the rest of the language is that formal, ‘pulled out a chair’ would seem to fit better with the general style.

 

I don’t think you need to say ‘as expected’, the Terecs are the hosts, where else would they sit?

 

Page 6: I like the double reverse of Miller and Pate being placed under arrest after all, it’s almost unexpected now, after what seemed like a joke by Rugier initially.

 

We are not told what Latern is, it could be a country, a religious order?

 

Page 7: Using the words ‘resistance’ and ‘futile’ in the same sentence only has one effect, everyone looks over their shoulder for Borg, I think it’s a cliché now.

 

Page 8: This is the first mention that Miller and Pate are rebels. To me, it felt shoe-horned in.

 

Page 9: What is ‘Yléz’, a curse? And ‘Alysians’ is dropped into the conversation at the end of the chapter and unexplained, we can work out it’s the nationality of Pate and Miller – presumably, but it’s another example of a ‘foreign’ word that is not explained, and I think it distances the reader from the action.

 

The end of the chapter is effective, I'm keen to know what happens, although since Pate is the p.o.v. character, I am presuming that he lives, so I don’t think that’s the biggest concern, but I'm interested in what is going on. I know I’ve mentioned names not being explained several times. I suppose you could look at it as creating a wider sense of mystery and disorientation, but it seems to be leading to a big info dump where we learn what all these names are, and that could be a problem as an opening for Chapter 2.

 

Overall, I like the writing. There could be some grammatical polishing and there are a few typos, but I was carried along by the pace of the action, and there were a couple of surprises that bode well for unexpected and interesting things continuing to happen through the story. Pate seems a bit ineffectual so far, but I appreciate that is because he is in a learning situation. Presumably, he has some kind of skill or ability that will make him seem a bit more competent as we go forward.

[jParker]

Thanks for the feedback guys. It's been really helpful for revisions.

 

I should have Chapter Two up next week. As much as I want to preview it, I'd hate to influence any critiques.