Voidus Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 I'm not entirely sure, but it seems like he could. He can use his powers to make people feel pain, so he can create sensory illusions; and he can make anyone who enters his school think it's this grand majestic hall, so it seems like his powers are effective within a range. So it seems like something that would be within his abilities. Though he'd have to be careful to set up some sort of believable context in which their clothes vanished, so they wouldn't see through the illusion. The appearance of that most heinous of Epics known only as The Streaker? 2
Edgedancer he/him Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 (edited) Random thought. Could Altermind disperse a crowd by making everyone in it think that they're naked, causing them all to stampede to their homes for clothes? Pretty much what Twi said, although there would be some additional problems, like Altermind not knowing about birthmarks or scars for example. Edited August 25, 2015 by Edgedancer
Voidus Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 Pretty much what Twi said, although there would be some additional problems, like Altermind not knowing about birthmarks or scars for example. Since we have no incidents of mental illusionists in canon I don't have any evidence to back this up but I'm of the opinion that they more put thoughts into peoples heads, so he could just make everyone think they're naked and their own mind would fill in the details. As I said though, pure speculation. 1
Kobold King he/him Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 Since we have no incidents of mental illusionists in canon I don't have any evidence to back this up but I'm of the opinion that they more put thoughts into peoples heads, so he could just make everyone think they're naked and their own mind would fill in the details. As I said though, pure speculation. I like that headcanon. In the same vein, if someone were to closely examine a wooden table that Altermind illusioned, would their mind fill in grains in the wood even if AM didn't deliberately add them in?
Voidus Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 I like that headcanon. In the same vein, if someone were to closely examine a wooden table that Altermind illusioned, would their mind fill in grains in the wood even if AM didn't deliberately add them in? That was my thinking. The downside being that two people comparing notes would be able to recognize the discrepancies between what they saw wheras with light manipulating illusionists everyone would see the same thing.
Kobold King he/him Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 That was my thinking. The downside being that two people comparing notes would be able to recognize the discrepancies between what they saw wheras with light manipulating illusionists everyone would see the same thing. That could be a useful way of testing what type of illusionist someone is.
Edgedancer he/him Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 (edited) Since we have no incidents of mental illusionists in canon I don't have any evidence to back this up but I'm of the opinion that they more put thoughts into peoples heads, so he could just make everyone think they're naked and their own mind would fill in the details. As I said though, pure speculation. Eh, the only thing we do know about mental manipulators in canon is that Brandon told us that they tend to be on the weaker side, so while I'd usually be for the mind filling in some things, details like this seem a bit too specific. Edited August 25, 2015 by Edgedancer
Voidus Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 Eh, the only thing we do know about mental manipulators in canon is that Brandon told us that they tend to be on the weaker side, so while I'd usually be for the mind filling in some things, details like this seem a bit too specific. When did we find that out? All I remember is that they share limitations with other mentalists.
Kobold King he/him Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 Eh, the only thing we do know about mental manipulators in canon is that Brandon told us that they tend to be on the weaker side, so while I'd usually be for the mind filling in some things, details like this seem a bit too specific. Where did he say that, if you don't mind supplying a link? Did he say that there were none who were strong enough to do that, or could Altermind simply be an especially powerful one?
Edgedancer he/him Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 When did we find that out? All I remember is that they share limitations with other mentalists. Where did he say that, if you don't mind supplying a link? Did he say that there were none who were strong enough to do that, or could Altermind simply be an especially powerful one? It was from the AMA, now he has talking about mental manipulator and not illusionist specifically but given they tend to share the same limitations and all that it's the best hint we have. https://www.reddit.com/r/books/comments/2ytg2h/im_novelist_brandon_sanderson_ama/crh8x07?context=10000 Oh , and while I was there (It's unreasonably large to search through at this point, really. ) I asked this question, although it's more of a joke. Did Steelheart shave himself? (and if yes did he ever cut himself doing so?)
TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her Posted August 25, 2015 Author Posted August 25, 2015 Oh , and while I was there (It's unreasonably large to search through at this point, really. ) I asked this question, although it's more of a joke. If he never shaved, and he had lived to old age, he would have ended up looking like this at some point. It's simply inevitable. Gaze upon your god, Newcago. Gaze upon him. 4
Voidus Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 It was from the AMA, now he has talking about mental manipulator and not illusionist specifically but given they tend to share the same limitations and all that it's the best hint we have. https://www.reddit.com/r/books/comments/2ytg2h/im_novelist_brandon_sanderson_ama/crh8x07?context=10000 Oh , and while I was there (It's unreasonably large to search through at this point, really. ) I asked this question, although it's more of a joke. Oh that one. Well I think that would more be about restraining the illusions to things that are believable rather than limiting the detail of the illusion. But also he does specifically say that there are more powerful versions and I'd say Altermind would be one of the stronger so I don't see a problem with it. 1
Edgedancer he/him Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 If he never shaved, and he had lived to old age, he would have ended up looking like this at some point. It's simply inevitable. Gaze upon your god, Newcago. Gaze upon him. Or he had other people shave him, at least that was my boring variant. Oh that one. Well I think that would more be about restraining the illusions to things that are believable rather than limiting the detail of the illusion. But also he does specifically say that there are more powerful versions and I'd say Altermind would be one of the stronger so I don't see a problem with it. Then there's the question how much he can actually do though. For example can he just make someone think he stabbed them and then they actually faint/die from "blood loss" or if he's aware of his own illusions can he gain additional knowledge by making a illusion about stuff he doesn't know about?
TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her Posted August 25, 2015 Author Posted August 25, 2015 Or he had other people shave him, at least that was my boring variant. If you like your alt!Supermen all beardless and boring, sure. 1
Kobold King he/him Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 Then there's the question how much he can actually do though. For example can he just make someone think he stabbed them and then they actually faint/die from "blood loss" or if he's aware of his own illusions can he gain additional knowledge by making a illusion about stuff he doesn't know about? I'm pretty sure he's demonstrated the ability to cause illusions of pain, so at the very least he should be able to cause enough pain to make people black out. Or overload the pleasure centers of their brain to essentially neutralize them.
Edgedancer he/him Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 If you like your alt!Supermen all beardless and boring, sure. Granted, after the apocalypse there wouldn't be any servants to shave him, so it can still happen. I'm pretty sure he's demonstrated the ability to cause illusions of pain, so at the very least he should be able to cause enough pain to make people black out. Or overload the pleasure centers of their brain to essentially neutralize them. You do realize that this ability alone would allow him to instantly win every fight against any oponent that's not immune to pain (which is almost everyone) just by thinking about it, yes? 1
Voidus Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 Granted, after the apocalypse there wouldn't be any servants to shave him, so it can still happen. You do realize that this ability alone would allow him to instantly win every fight against any oponent that's not immune to pain (which is almost everyone) just by thinking about it, yes? Given the number of High Epics in Oregon I don't think it's that big a problem, all anyone else needs is the ability to see where he is (By say hooking a sniper up to a camera) to kill him permanently.
Kobold King he/him Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 You do realize that this ability alone would allow him to instantly win every fight against any oponent that's not immune to pain (which is almost everyone) just by thinking about it, yes? Indeed I do. Which is why backtracking through the Portland thread to see if he's demonstrated abilities over pain is a pretty high priority now.
Voidus Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 Also it's pretty difficult to actually pass out just from pain, you usually pass out from shock, which isn't a surefire way to knock someone out.So it would act as a good deterrent and distraction but not exactly an instant KO.
Edgedancer he/him Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 (edited) Given the number of High Epics in Oregon I don't think it's that big a problem, all anyone else needs is the ability to see where he is (By say hooking a sniper up to a camera) to kill him permanently. Most PIs don't protect against feeling pain, in fact they make it so the Epic isn't used to feeling pain, making them more suspect to this. Plus he laid a permanent illusion over Thoughtown, so he doesn't need to know exactly where his victim is and can just AOE it. Edit: Also it's pretty difficult to actually pass out just from pain, you usually pass out from shock, which isn't a surefire way to knock someone out. So it would act as a good deterrent and distraction but not exactly an instant KO. Eh, still depends on where the pain lies. Making them lie weeping on the floor so they can't even thing about fighting back isn't that much of a change. Edited August 25, 2015 by Edgedancer
Voidus Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 Most PIs don't protect against feeling pain, in fact they make it so the Epic isn't used to feeling pain, making them more suspect to this. Plus he laid a permanent illusion over Thoughtown, so he doesn't need to know exactly where his victim is and can just AOE it. Which might help capture them but not kill them, plus teleporters can easily escape, Corpsemaker could kill him by staring at him (And nullify his illusions if he felt like it), Lightwards' zombies would still be able to attack and are more or less pain-immune, Neverthere wouldn't even be affected and Nighthound has been getting his face impaled regularly so I assume he's pretty used to pain. 1
Kobold King he/him Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 More seriously, for Altermind to have reigned supreme in Portland for so long I think he'd need to have had a trump card against rival Epics. The ability to trigger this level of pain can be thwarted by a clever player, but still makes him pretty powerful. Personally, this is the sort of one-hit KO that I find pretty fun to try to get around, as opposed to one that requires nerfing. 1
Edgedancer he/him Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 Which might help capture them but not kill them, plus teleporters can easily escape, Corpsemaker could kill him by staring at him (And nullify his illusions if he felt like it), Lightwards' zombies would still be able to attack and are more or less pain-immune, Neverthere wouldn't even be affected and Nighthound has been getting his face impaled regularly so I assume he's pretty used to pain. Again, depends on where the pain level lies. I'm not against the idea of making them feel pain, afterall, only reacting to Kobold's "make them black out" comment. With enough pain it is completely possible to to drown out someone's mind that they simply can't think about any of these option or overpower Nighthound being used to pain. Just a matter of scale. There is afterall a difference of making him powerful and dropping the mental equivalent of the Metal right into Portland. (By the way, to come back on Altermind not needing a specific target, see TT HQ, it is possible that he could affect Neverthere over her projection, at least partially.) ...Also, why are we having this discussion without Maiiliw? Oh and while we are talking about his characters, are we going to do anything about War Smasher concerning Incorporeals needing to fly, because they can't touch the ground? Like him only keeping the soles of his feet solid.
Voidus Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 Again, depends on where the pain level lies. I'm not against the idea of making them feel pain, afterall, only reacting to Kobold's "make them black out" comment. With enough pain it is completely possible to to drown out someone's mind that they simply can't think about any of these option or overpower Nighthound being used to pain. Just a matter of scale. There is afterall a difference of making him powerful and dropping the mental equivalent of the Metal right into Portland. (By the way, to come back on Altermind not needing a specific target, see TT HQ, it is possible that he could affect Neverthere over her projection, at least partially.) ...Also, why are we having this discussion without Maiiliw? Oh and while we are talking about his characters, are we going to do anything about War Smasher concerning Incorporeals needing to fly, because they can't touch the ground? Like him only keeping the soles of his feet solid. I'm pretty skeptical on that one to be honest, like I said I don't think it's actually possible to pass out just from pain, you can pass out from shock but that wouldn't be something AM could control and not everyone would. And while pain is a really really great distraction it is possible to work through it if necessary.
Edgedancer he/him Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 I'm pretty skeptical on that one to be honest, like I said I don't think it's actually possible to pass out just from pain, you can pass out from shock but that wouldn't be something AM could control and not everyone would. And while pain is a really really great distraction it is possible to work through it if necessary. No problems on my part, if it's keept in reasonable limits like that. Now let's see if i can get some work into that Nighthound post.
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