Who is your LEAST favorite character in the Cosmere?

[The Watcher]

I don't like Odium. He scares me. gives me the willies everytime I read his part

[goody153]

On 6/12/2018 at 4:07 AM, The Watcher said:

I don't like Odium. He scares me. gives me the willies everytime I read his part

I actually feel the opposite. I think Odium needs to be more scary considering how much hype in Cosmere and epigraphs in general he got. He was literally called "the most dangerous of the 16" but so far he's shown as clever but not an unstoppable force that literally makes you just feel dread and hopelessness like Ruin did in Mistborn.

He's supposed to be the Thanos of the Cosmere(well i have my money on Autonomy but the hype is on him as the big bad) but he doesn't feel like one. I think he needs more work or maybe we haven't read enough of him yet, maybe he'll get more freaky on the later books 

Actually Sanderson wrote Ruin a much much better malevolent god than Odium ever was. 

Edited June 14, 2018 by goody153

[Journey Before Pancakes]

20 minutes ago, goody153 said:

I actually feel the opposite. I think Odium needs to be more scary considering how much hype in Cosmere and epigraphs in general he got. He was literally called "the most dangerous of the 16" but so far he's shown as clever but not an unstoppable force that literally makes you just feel dread and hopelessness like Ruin did in Mistborn.

He's supposed to be the Thanos of the Cosmere(well i have my money on Autonomy but the hype is on him as the big bad) but he doesn't feel like one. I think he needs more work or maybe we haven't read enough of him yet, maybe he'll get more freaky on the later books 

Actually Sanderson wrote Ruin a much much better malevolent god than Odium ever was. 

Odium seems to be greatly constrained right now.  Everything we've heard about his past makes Ruin seem like he was slacking on his intent in comparison.

For example, based on Odium's MO, Ruin and Preservation would have been likely targets had he not been trapped in Braize when he came to the Roshar system.

[goody153]

36 minutes ago, Journey Before Pancakes said:

Odium seems to be greatly constrained right now.  Everything we've heard about his past makes Ruin seem like he was slacking on his intent in comparison.

For example, based on Odium's MO, Ruin and Preservation would have been likely targets had he not been trapped in Braize when he came to the Roshar system.

Not as constrained as Ruin ever was who had to work through really subtle actions. I mean he's literally influencing Roshar and he can field his own soldiers no problem. Then we also have everstorm now, he's basically in the position of Honor previously was but just better cause you know honor is dead and he only has cultivation as his real problem.

I think Odium wouldn't put Ruin/Preservation high on his hitlist. They are pretty much preoccupied with each other after all and Ruin might be extremely dangerous he still stuck with another shard for a long time. That shard just wants to kill anyways it'll probably do him more good than bad if that shard goes for another(assuming preservation got killed)

Edited June 14, 2018 by goody153

[Journey Before Pancakes]

8 hours ago, goody153 said:

Not as constrained as Ruin ever was who had to work through really subtle actions. I mean he's literally influencing Roshar and he can field his own soldiers no problem. Then we also have everstorm now, he's basically in the position of Honor previously was but just better cause you know honor is dead and he only has cultivation as his real problem.

I think Odium wouldn't put Ruin/Preservation high on his hitlist. They are pretty much preoccupied with each other after all and Ruin might be extremely dangerous he still stuck with another shard for a long time. That shard just wants to kill anyways it'll probably do him more good than bad if that shard goes for another(assuming preservation got killed)

Ruin chose to constrain himself though.  He entered a deal with Preservation to help create a world so that he can destroy it.

Odium on the other hand seemed to avoid investing himself in other worlds.  He was only going around to destroy and solidify his strength.  He bascally did this two ways - destroy shards that might challenge him on his quest (which is why he went after Ambition), and destroy shards that go to the same world together.

Presumably he was going after the second because two Shards working together would obviously be more powerful than him.  I assume that's why he didn't target Ruin/Preservation first; their intents were too opposed to be an immediate threat.  That said, I assume they would have been a pretty big target for him had he been able to leave Roshar after splintering the shards.  He might have been gambling on Ruin splintering Preservation;  but had that not happened and had he not been trapped, I think it's very likely he would have visited Scadrial eventually.

He definitely should have, considering Harmony is now more powerful than him (even if the intents make it hard to use that power to do things).

[goody153]

Just now, Journey Before Pancakes said:

Ruin chose to constrain himself though.  He entered a deal with Preservation to help create a world so that he can destroy it.

Odium on the other hand seemed to avoid investing himself in other worlds.  He was only going around to destroy and solidify his strength.  He bascally did this two ways - destroy shards that might challenge him on his quest (which is why he went after Ambition), and destroy shards that go to the same world together.

Presumably he was going after the second because two Shards working together would obviously be more powerful than him.  I assume that's why he didn't target Ruin/Preservation first; their intents were too opposed to be an immediate threat.  That said, I assume they would have been a pretty big target for him had he been able to leave Roshar after splintering the shards.  He might have been gambling on Ruin splintering Preservation;  but had that not happened and had he not been trapped, I think it's very likely he would have visited Scadrial eventually.

He definitely should have, considering Harmony is now more powerful than him (even if the intents make it hard to use that power to do things).

You mean tricked by preservation. "Constrained himself" sounds wrong as if he intended that to happen when he didn't and genuinely believed their agreement.

And how would you know Odium didn't also "constrain himself" since whatever Tanavast did it pretty much caused the entire series and a hell of frustration for Odium. Even other shards seemed content of the Odium situation tnx to whatever Honor did.

Honor intent doesn't sound that dangerous compared to Ruin, Ambition or Dominon but its seems like Odium targetted Roshar for the shard vessels rather. He could also be targetting Ruin/Preservation after Roshar assuming everything went according to plan but we don't know the rest of the unknown shards to be certain like he went for Ambition before the D&D(tho he failed to find Ambition) and H&C so that means he goes for shards according to threat level rather than the shards who broke the "no fraternizing with other shards agreement".

I mean we have 7 more books so we can still expect Odium to deliver but so far ? Disappointing compared to Ruin in many factors. Obviously disappointment does not mean Odium isn't stronger(he obviously is) just writing wise and delivery of the villain's antagonism so far as written Ruin truly felt like the "END" that he was while Odium felt like a cartoon villain at times. 

Well that was after book 3. Book 1&2 Odium did feel like the hype delivered admittedly

Edited June 14, 2018 by goody153

[Journey Before Pancakes]

1 hour ago, goody153 said:

You mean tricked by preservation. "Constrained himself" sounds wrong as if he intended that to happen when he didn't and genuinely believed their agreement.

And how would you know Odium didn't also "constrain himself" since whatever Tanavast did it pretty much caused the entire series and a hell of frustration for Odium. Even other shards seemed content of the Odium situation tnx to whatever Honor did.

He willingly entered an agreement with Preservation to create a world so that he could destroy it.  Everything tells us that he was a willing participant in that.

Everything about Odium tells us that he cannot leave Braize; which doesn't seem like something he would willingly allow to happen; considering until that point he was travelling through the Cosmere splintering shards with Intents that threaten him and shards that inhabit world's together.  Most of the evidence points towards him coming to Roshar the same reason he went to Sel; there were two Shards together, so he wanted to shatter them.

 

I think one of the biggest points is how they go about things.  Ruin has barely any foresight compared to other shards like Preservation (you can see that in HoA where Preservation planned Ruins defeat well in advance with amazing detail and subtleties.  Odium seems to have much better foresight than Ruin.

 

Ruin wanted to break everything down without discrimination.  Odium has hate.  He's not just trying to ruin things, he chooses specific targets and acts with a passion.  Ruin would be closer to a mindless need to destroy.  Odium is more of a crafty passionate actions to destroy specific targets.

The way I see it, although Ruin may appear like much more violent and furious use of power; that's because Odium has a far more structured and intelligent approach.  He feels more like an actual villain to me.  Ruin felt like more of a natural force that had come unbalanced.

[goody153]

12 hours ago, Journey Before Pancakes said:

He willingly entered an agreement with Preservation to create a world so that he could destroy it.  Everything tells us that he was a willing participant in that.

Everything about Odium tells us that he cannot leave Braize; which doesn't seem like something he would willingly allow to happen; considering until that point he was travelling through the Cosmere splintering shards with Intents that threaten him and shards that inhabit world's together.  Most of the evidence points towards him coming to Roshar the same reason he went to Sel; there were two Shards together, so he wanted to shatter them.

 

I think one of the biggest points is how they go about things.  Ruin has barely any foresight compared to other shards like Preservation (you can see that in HoA where Preservation planned Ruins defeat well in advance with amazing detail and subtleties.  Odium seems to have much better foresight than Ruin.

 

Ruin wanted to break everything down without discrimination.  Odium has hate.  He's not just trying to ruin things, he chooses specific targets and acts with a passion.  Ruin would be closer to a mindless need to destroy.  Odium is more of a crafty passionate actions to destroy specific targets.

The way I see it, although Ruin may appear like much more violent and furious use of power; that's because Odium has a far more structured and intelligent approach.  He feels more like an actual villain to me.  Ruin felt like more of a natural force that had come unbalanced.

Ruin IS meant for destruction and death. Remember his monologue about being the "caretaker who closes the shop" that was fantastic. Odium on the other hand i've read soo many fantasy he just feels like a generic villain getting thwarted every time. Yes he's just another villain while Ruin was written fantastic.

That's my whole point about my disappointment over him like it doesn't matter to me about what we know about him like the better shardic foresight than Ruin or that he was a dangerous shard. All of that doesn't matter if he wasn't shown/written as how dangerous and crafty he should be. He basically has the hype of Thanos on Cosmere but he's not showcasing he's Thanos he's showcasing he's basically loki/ultron(i'm just using this analogy btw cause avengers is popular and i assume you've seen it).

Maybe i'm just expecting too much from Sanderson but i've been mostly satisfied with everything he wrote even when he finished WoT i kinda liked his books better than RJ. But idk i expected Odium to be at least as impressive as Ruin or even like Crippled from Malazan.

I think i've been repeating my point so i'm just stopping 

[Journey Before Pancakes]

9 hours ago, goody153 said:

Ruin IS meant for destruction and death. Remember his monologue about being the "caretaker who closes the shop" that was fantastic. Odium on the other hand i've read soo many fantasy he just feels like a generic villain getting thwarted every time. Yes he's just another villain while Ruin was written fantastic.

That's my whole point about my disappointment over him like it doesn't matter to me about what we know about him like the better shardic foresight than Ruin or that he was a dangerous shard. All of that doesn't matter if he wasn't shown/written as how dangerous and crafty he should be. He basically has the hype of Thanos on Cosmere but he's not showcasing he's Thanos he's showcasing he's basically loki/ultron(i'm just using this analogy btw cause avengers is popular and i assume you've seen it).

Maybe i'm just expecting too much from Sanderson but i've been mostly satisfied with everything he wrote even when he finished WoT i kinda liked his books better than RJ. But idk i expected Odium to be at least as impressive as Ruin or even like Crippled from Malazan.

I think i've been repeating my point so i'm just stopping 

I don't get the Avengers reference; but I think I can see the point you're trying to make.

I don't necessarily agree that much though.  I don't think it's fair to compare what we've seen of Odium in SA so far to what we saw of Ruin in MB Era 1.  We only heard Ruin's name in the second book.  Until book 3; he was basically a force in the background.  We're only on book 3 of 10, there's still plenty of time for Odium to live up to the hype.

I assume we've just begun to scratch the surface of why so many other Shards and Cosmere-aware people fear/dislike him.  Considering that SA isn't even the final story in the Cosmere, there's a chance Odium is such a big villain that he survives SA and is a villain in MB Era 4.

Edited June 15, 2018 by Journey Before Pancakes

[Dunc4n]

I would probably say Szeth, but not because I don't like him, because I think he's awesome. It just hurts me to read about how broken he is.

[The Gecko]

Straff Venture.

Enough said. I still think Straff is one of Sandersons best 'despicable' characters. I hated him far more than Sadeas and Amaram combined. Every scene with him was awful, and it was incredibly satisfying when Vin just pummeled him with brass and zinc, as well as when he died.

Dilaf gets second place for similar reasons

[Ashspren]

On June 30, 2018 at 10:48 AM, The Gecko said:

Straff Venture.

Enough said. I still think Straff is one of Sandersons best 'despicable' characters. I hated him far more than Sadeas and Amaram combined. Every scene with him was awful, and it was incredibly satisfying when Vin just pummeled him with brass and zinc, as well as when he died.

Dilaf gets second place for similar reasons

I loved both Vin and Elend, so I hated Straff too. His treatment of them is just terrible.

By the way, has anyone seen this online?... (not mine, by the way) (spoiler tagged for size)

Spoiler

I was debating whether laughing or crying when I saw that, so I ended up making some sort of strangled noise in the back of my throat... 

[+Ark1002]

All the characters are good, but I guess my least favorite was spook. He just seemed like a whiny, self-righteous kid. And on top of that he only reason he survived was because he had help from shards, not very smart...

P.S. Amaram and Sadeas are some of my favorite characters. They're really good side villains.

[Toaster Retribution]

17 hours ago, Ark1002 said:

Amaram

 

17 hours ago, Ark1002 said:

favorite

YES! FINALLY I AM NOT ALONE!

[Nerd3.14159265358979]

On 6/15/2018 at 4:35 PM, Dunc4n said:

I would probably say Szeth, but not because I don't like him, because I think he's awesome. It just hurts me to read about how broken he is.

My dead, dead brother. This is about the character, not their circumstances. It hurts me to read that post from you.

[Emily]

Before OB, I’d say Elhokar. He is whiny and the chapters he features predominantly in I find myself frustrated and wishing to skip. After OB... I actually like him a fair bit. 

[HipsterStick]

Zane...

Ugh.

There's a reason I tend to skip Well of Ascension when I re-read the Mistborn trilogy...

[Unlicensed Hemalurgist]

I was about to agree that Zane is my least favorite, but in retrospect I'd have to say it's a toss-up between Zane, Lift, and Shallan.

Zane serves literally no purpose in Well of Ascension other than instigating a dull and predictable love triangle subplot. The only interesting thing about him is Ruin.

Lift is one of the most irritating characters I've ever read. Everything about her grates on my nerves like sheet metal dragged down a gravel driveway.

As for Shallan, I simply find her chapters irritating and I can't relate to her as a character. She was the reason I stopped reading Words of Radiance.