Theory: Urithiru in Shadesmar - My reasoning

[Macen he/him]

So, I'm new to this theorycraft, but on a reread I noticed something. Please let me know if someone has already brought this up.

When Jasnah is speaking with Shallan about Urithiru she repeatedly assures Shallan that it is not located in Natanatan. This begs the question of how she can be so positive... I think she has been there - In Shadesmar.

Another bit of evidence that it is there is the "quote" at the beginning of chapter 46 pretty much straight forward says that Urithiru is a hub for fast travel. I haven't looked into where Veden City was/is located, but I don't believe ot os anywhere near Kholinar. The speaker implies that the Radiants charge a tariff for this travel.

From what we know of Hoid he can travel great distance quickly using Shadesmar. Maybe the Radiants were able to create a fabrial that allowed normal people to enter shades mar for quick transportation.

I know others have theoriesed that Urithiru is in Shadesmar, but I thought I would present my case.

It someone else has already come to these conclusions please let me know.

P.S. This was all typed on my phone, so please excuse any spelling errors.

[blackmagic3 he/him]

I personally don't think Urithiru is in shadesmar, my thoughts are that it is on a mountain, I believe there was quote calling it the tower city. My theory is to get to Urithiru you can through shadesmar, travel through the oathgates or fly. I believe that one orders of the radiants used shadesmar to create portals or teleport and the oathgates are just portals through shadesmar that normal people could use based on that order's powers. This is because Brandon has said the distances work differently in shadesmar. Your evidence suggests that Jasnah knows where Urithiru is, not because it is in shadesmar but because she went to Urithiru through shadesmar, which also explains how she knows about radiants.

[Senor Feesh]

There are mountains in Shadesmar too... which may tie in with someone else's theory that Urithiru us in the Purelake (the area in Shadesmar is mountainous).

[blackmagic3 he/him]

Didn't Noahdon walk to Urithiru you instead of the direct way, how could he have walked there if it is shadesmar?

[Macen he/him]

That is what it says. But there are two scholars quoted saying you can't reach Urithiru by foot. Someone has got to be wrong.

[Leuthie]

There is a correlation between locations in Shadesmar and locations in the Physical. Walk to Purelake then "transport" to Shadesmar instead of whatever other tricks they were using.

Or walk through Shadsmar...

[hoser he/him]

...When Jasnah is speaking with Shallan about Urithiru she repeatedly assures Shallan that it is not located in Natanatan. This begs the question of how she can be so positive... I think she has been there - In Shadesmar....

Maybe.  There is a quote below where it is clear that they considered placing Urithiru in Alethela, but ended up placing it to the west of Alethela and nearer Honor.  Jasnah could be using that and other historical quotes to conclude that since Natanatan is to the east of Alethela, Urithiru is not there. 

I cannot imagine putting a city in Shadesmar and describing it as to the west of Alethela even if the locations corresponded. 

There is also an epigraph where someone takes up a Dawnshard and climbs steps toward temples dedicated to the heralds.  I think this is in Urithiru and it doesn't seem like Shadesmar. 

Likewise, the Oathgate tariff quote suggests to me that Urithiru is a mundane location.  Shadesmar seems too weird to avoid being commented on. 

 

That is what it says. But there are two scholars quoted saying you can't reach Urithiru by foot. Someone has got to be wrong.

If Nohadon walked to the foot of the mountain that he couldn't climb by foot which had Urithiru at the top, who would be wrong?  A windrunner could fly him to the top once he got there or a traveling order could teleport him (assuming he can't do one of these things himself). 

 

'The Way of Kings pg. 485' said

They lived high atop a place that no man could reach, but all could visit. The tower city itself, crafted by the hands of no man.

'The Way of Kings pg. 524' said

Taking the Dawnshard, known to bind any creature, voidish or mortal, her crawled up the steps crafted for Heralds, ten strides tall apiece, toward the grand temple above.

 

'The Way of Kings pg. 592' said

Notes on Urithiru, the first one declared inside. The notebook was full-it appeared-of quotes from and notations about various books Jasnah found. All spoke of this place, Urithiru.

'The Way of Kings pg. 519' said

“Though many wished Urithiru to be built in Alethela, it was obvious that it could not be. And so it was that we asked for it to be placed westward, in the place nearest to Honor.”

Not-random quotes borrowed from Windrunner's Urithiru thread.

Edited: added quotes

Edited May 29, 2013 by hoser

[Isomere]

This is my theory on Urithiru. We also came to the conclusion that it is likely in the Purelake in Shadesmar. This fits being in the place "Nearest to honor" assuming his shardpool is the sacred grotto of the Purelakers. But it was not built in a lake, but on a mountain. The purelake in Shadesmar is a large mountain which makes everything work out nicely. 

 

I like your theory that Jasnah has been to Urithiru. It's hinted that she has the transportation surge since she can soulcast at a distance.

[Aethling he/him]

Even outside of Shadesmar, distances and directions can be misleading.  Names change, countries grow and shrink, or disappear entirely.  Distances can mean different things to different cultures.  Even today, some authors use a term that can mean three or four miles depending on the author or dictionary. That can add up to a major difference

 

Personally, I feel that it is probably on an island somewhere inside a body of water or what used to be a body of water.  That would fit with the idea that you can't walk there and that they were collecting a toll.  That idea isn't all that rare in fantasy literature or even in real life.  WoT had such a city.  SoT had such a city.  The Garion books have an island kingdom that is essentially one city.  Even Paris in the real world started out on an island.  London has an area that is known as "The City"

[Phantom Monstrosity]

Why a normal island and not a MOVING ISLAND?

[Meg]

Didn't Noahdon walk to Urithiru you instead of the direct way, how could he have walked there if it is shadesmar?

 

 

Not only that, but how did his family and entourage come to Urithiru then? I don't think that really everyone has access to Shadesmar (neither through Oathgates about which we don't know anything until now). 

 

 

 

Why a normal island and not a MOVING ISLAND?

 

Do you imply that Urithiru still moves around? 

 

I -- still -- like my idea that it is sunken in an ocean or lake (what might not necessarily contradict the moving-island-idea because it could have died and sunken). 

[Aethling he/him]

It might actually exist as a still inhabited city.  What I mean by that is taking Rome or Athens as examples.  Throughout the years they have been settled, raided, or visited by different groups of people.  It would be well beyond reason to expect that each of them called the cities by their modern names.  Some cities have been abandoned and then reestablished later.  It wouldn't be all that hard to see the name being changed.  Throw in thousands of years of history to confuse the names, languages, and dialects, and you get something that could very likely still be a major city.

[Phantom Monstrosity]

Do you imply that Urithiru still moves around?

It would be awesome, so that's my going theory.