Humanity's spread through the Cosmere

[Shardlet]

Here is a quote from the 17th Shard Q&A with Brandon Sanderson last Fall (sorry, this is a cut and paste.  So far I only know how to quote within a thread.  I haven't figured out how to do a quote from a separate thread yet.):

 

'Aethling', on 25 Sept 2012 - 16:37, said:

1. Where did humanity originate in the cosmere?

Brandon: The first planet with humans on it was Yolen.

 

And here is a paraphrase of another quote (forgive me that I was not able to find the actual text and context of the quote, but I am 100% sure that I read itthis week):

 

Brandon was asked about humans on shardworlds before the arrival of the Shard and Brandon affirmed that on some worlds there were humans existing on the world at the time of the arrival of the Shard.

 

 

Assuming that these quotes are accurate and Brandon wasn't having a brain fart, humans were able to travel (presumably by worldhopping) pre-shattering.  Any ideas on how this was accomplished?

 

Obviously, realmatics was in play prior to the shattering since physical, cognitive, and spiritual realms and forms form the underpinnings of the cosmere.  So, while Shard abilities may enhance the ability to worldhop, they do not seem to be required.  The caveat in that statement is perhaps Adonalsium enabled any and all worldhopping pre-shattering and thus all post-shattering worldhopping is accomplished by virtue of the powers of the shards.

 

What does everyone think about pre-shattering worldhopping and how it may have been accomplished?

[Shardbearer]

I'm not sure, but I noticed the same discrepency between these two statements when I was reading  your other thread.

 

They also might have had space travel level technology.

[Phantom Monstrosity]

I'm not sure, but I noticed the same discrepency between these two statements when I was reading  your other thread.

 

They also might have had space travel level technology.

Nope, the tech level was lower than modern earth.

[makromag]

Couldn't it be, that humans simply "formed" on both planets? I don't know which is more plausible, but I think it should at least be considered.

[Shardbearer]

Nope, the tech level was lower than modern earth.

 

Oh yeah, I forgot that.

 

Couldn't it be, that humans simply "formed" on both planets? I don't know which is more plausible, but I think it should at least be considered.

 

True, since Brandon didn't say humanity originated on Yolen, even though that was the question. Brandon's good at those Aes Sedai responses.

[makromag]

Well, I think Brandson said that Yolen was the first planet with human life, I just mean that it could have evolved the same way on other planets, only later.

[Shardbearer]

Well, I think Brandson said that Yolen was the first planet with human life, I just mean that it could have evolved the same way on other planets, only later.

 

Yes, I was agreeing with you.

[Shardlet]

While it would be possible for Humans to evolve independent of one another, in the sense that it happened once and therefore could happen again, the propability of such a thing happening would be beyond astronomical without some overarching common influence.  Consider, the calculated odds of life foming spontaneously are somewhat on the order of putting all the pieces to an old television (i.e., no soldered connections, etc.) into a box, shaking the box, opening the box and finding a functioning TV in the box.  And that is just the formation of life from a soup of proteins. 

 

When you factor in the Cosmere consisting of a dwarf galaxy with a relatively small amount of star systems, the likely varying nature and levels of radiation produced by the stars of each human inhabited world, and the variability of weather, gravity, and atmosphere from world-to-world (i.e., Roshar is high-oxygen and low-gravity), the independent formation of genetically compatible humans really must be ruled out based on the staggering enormous impropability.

 

This leaves us with two options. 

1) All humanity in the cosmere originated on Yolen and all other pre-shattering interplanetary travel was accomplished by worldhopping (due to the tech-level as pointed out by PM above);

or, 2) there exists in the cosmere an overall power/sentience which guided independent human evolution.

EDIT:

By way of clarification, I am not suggesting in the second possibility that BS is planning a great big overall God reveal at some point in the story.  In fact, I figure it to be so unlikely that that would happen that I would be absolutely flabbergasted, dumbfounded, and even a little bit (disappointed?) if he went down that alley.

Edited May 16, 2013 by Windrunner
Please don't double post, you can simply edit your original post. Thanks! :)

[Shardbearer]

By way of clarification, I am not suggesting in the second possibility that BS is planning a great big overall God reveal at some point in the story.  In fact, I figure it to be so unlikely that that would happen that I would be absolutely flabbergasted, dumbfounded, and even a little bit (disappointed?) if he went down that alley. 

 

Wouldn't Adonalsium fit that role already, though? It could have guided the evolution of mankind on several planets separately.

[Shardlet]

Perhaps, but we do not, to my knowledge, know what Adonalsium was or what its nature or purpose was.  I think it is a bit premature to make the assumption that Adonalsium controlled/established/guided the entire Cosmere.

 

If it was a sentient god-like being, then what purpose or interest would it have had in developing humans accross the Cosmere?  More questions than answers are there down this path, hmm?

[Binnut]

I think it has been stated that when Leras and Ati created the humans on Scadrial they created them very similar to the humans they had been seeing on Yolen (and in fact been themselves I guess). That is the reason that they are so similar. (to Yolens humans and to us).

 

When two shards used a "Blueprint" to create the humans existing on one planet I have doubt's about humans in the same form as on the other planets would have developed spontaneously.

 

I would say world-hopping is more likely. Could you maybe worldhop someone else? A whole village/group of pepole maybe?

Could a Shard do that? Maybe the Adonalsium could have done it? Or the force it was opposed to?

 

I'm starting to run wild now I think, but as you said, it raises more questions.

[Kadrok]

Assuming that these quotes are accurate and Brandon wasn't having a brain fart, humans were able to travel (presumably by worldhopping) pre-shattering.  Any ideas on how this was accomplished?

 

Obviously, realmatics was in play prior to the shattering since physical, cognitive, and spiritual realms and forms form the underpinnings of the cosmere.  So, while Shard abilities may enhance the ability to worldhop, they do not seem to be required.  The caveat in that statement is perhaps Adonalsium enabled any and all worldhopping pre-shattering and thus all post-shattering worldhopping is accomplished by virtue of the powers of the shards.

 

What does everyone think about pre-shattering worldhopping and how it may have been accomplished?

Brandon has said somewhere that there could be "magic-systems" (I didn't want to confuse people with the term "manifestations of investiture") pre-shattering, but they'd be subtle (or something like that). So I imagine they world-hopped through the means provided by whatever powers were in place before the shattering.

 

Whoever finds the actual quote gets a prize (the prize may or may not be an upvote).

Edited May 17, 2013 by Kadrok

[Windrunner]

Here you are

Phantine

Are there any magic systems in the cosmere that aren't shard based?

BRANDON:

2) This depends on definitions. The effects of Adonalsium permeate everything, and Adonalsium is also the source of the Shards. It is possible to find a magic that isn't DIRECTLY powered by a specific shard, however, though most of these would have been set up before the shattering and would be much smaller in scope than things like Allomancy and Surgebinding.

 

Source

[Cheese Ninja]

Hmm, some of humanity could have left Yolen pre-Shattering, or even post-Shattering, but still before the Shards themselves came to a particular world.  Either of those would work.  Those initial humans leaving Yolen could have even been assisted by the Shards.

 

I'm actually more confused by the whole thing about Ati and Leras making humanity on Scadrial.  How many different humans did they start with in the beginning?  What were their sources of of genetic variation?  Did they just make copies of Yolen humans, but with only Ruin and Preservation as part of their Spirit Webs?  Brandon later said that if Ati and Leras's bodies would have been interesting for the the Scadrians to study, but I can't remember if it was for genetic reasons or Spirit Web reasons.

[Windrunner]

I don't think that part was ever made clear to us.

 

InsurrectionistFungus:

Did Sazed do anything with the bodies of Ati and Leras after he ascended?

Brandon:

No, I'm afraid not. Those might have been useful to have around, though.

[Kadrok]

Here you are

Turns out the prize was an upvote

 

With regards to the bodies, perhaps Sazed could have used them to enhance the Scadrian spirit web since Ati and Leras were almost certainly pre-shattering people. Or perhaps he could have advanced their plain old every day physical biology.

 

Another possiblity is examining the effects of Shardholding on a human body long term... who knows, Leras and Ati could have been riddled with cancers or had blueberries instead of testicles. All I'm saying is, there are good reasons why having the corpse of someone who was more-or-less a God for a few thousand years, not to mention part of another, potentially superior human race, could have been useful to someone who can mess around with human physiology, but only has the gathered wisdom of dead religions to guide this power.

Edited May 20, 2013 by Kadrok