Odious Interference

[Senor Feesh]

Ok, on the reddit AMA just noticed something I'd not seen before, apologies if it has been mentioned already.

Someone asked if Odium would become a metal if he went to Scadrial. The answer was that this was tied to Identity, and that Odium would need to tinker with things on Scadrial to make this work.

Most interesting to me however, is that Odium has already done this on Roshar.

Forgive my inability to link to a specific reddit post, but here's the quote:

The difficulty here is, again, one of Identity. People born on Scadrial have an Identity tied to it and its magic. Odium would have to do certain things to make them able to use a magic he fuels. He has done these things on Roshar, so it's not impossible for him to manage it on Scadrial.

[Phantom Monstrosity]

So Identity includes what magic systems you have access to. Huh. That certainly puts a new spin on aluminum metalminds.

[Observer]

It certainly does o_O

 

So, Odium makes you hate by messing with your identity. That's.....freaky. It's like emotional allomancy but with your cognitive aspect itself being fundamentally (Hahapunny) changed. I could see that being very dangerous. No wonder Hoid's afraid.

[Vortaan he/him]

It certainly does o_O

 

So, Odium makes you hate by messing with your identity. That's.....freaky. It's like emotional allomancy but with your cognitive aspect itself being fundamentally (Hahapunny) changed. I could see that being very dangerous. No wonder Hoid's afraid.

 

Huh, I'm reading this a different way. I think that Odium needs to tie his Identity to a Shardworld for natives to access his magic, or to be considered part of the natural balance of that world. Hence no metals, since Scadrial has no outlet for Odium's power right now.

[dj26792 he/him]

I actually think its a bit of both, Odium would have to change his identity to put out magic in a scadrialese form, but he would also have to change the identity of people to accept/access his power in order for them to be able to use his magic, although I'm struggling with what that would look like my best guess is changing his identity to produce a metal and their identity to produce a 4th metallic art

[Dros]

It tells me Odium isn't native to Roshar, so where was he before?

[ROSHtafARian]

Right, that's the sense that I'm getting.  That Odium's presence isn't part of the natural Shardic atmosphere of Roshar, and thus magic on Roshar wasn't derived/influenced by him until he changed some things, possibly creating voidbinding or warping existing surgebinding to a mirror version of it.

 

Which brings me back to the quote 'Three of Sixteen ruled, but now the broken one reigns...' - I just don't feel that quote fits if Odium wasn't native to Roshar to begin with, and more and more I'm convinced there is (or was) another Shard on Roshar alongside Cultivation and Honor.

[happyman he/him]

Right, that's the sense that I'm getting.  That Odium's presence isn't part of the natural Shardic atmosphere of Roshar, and thus magic on Roshar wasn't derived/influenced by him until he changed some things, possibly creating voidbinding or warping existing surgebinding to a mirror version of it.

 

Which brings me back to the quote 'Three of Sixteen ruled, but now the broken one reigns...' - I just don't feel that quote fits if Odium wasn't native to Roshar to begin with, and more and more I'm convinced there is (or was) another Shard on Roshar alongside Cultivation and Honor.

 

I've felt this way for a long time.  If nothing else, it would explain why the world is so extreme compared to the others.  Three "benign" shards which don't directly oppose each other---there's a lot more room for interactions and conflict (less lethal than the desolations) in a situation like that.

[Vortaan he/him]

Right, that's the sense that I'm getting.  That Odium's presence isn't part of the natural Shardic atmosphere of Roshar, and thus magic on Roshar wasn't derived/influenced by him until he changed some things, possibly creating voidbinding or warping existing surgebinding to a mirror version of it.

 

Which brings me back to the quote 'Three of Sixteen ruled, but now the broken one reigns...' - I just don't feel that quote fits if Odium wasn't native to Roshar to begin with, and more and more I'm convinced there is (or was) another Shard on Roshar alongside Cultivation and Honor.

 

Certainly provides a new spin on the Oathpact, doesn't it?

[Elwynn]

It's like you guys get an idea in your head and forget WoB from interviews. There have only ever been three Shards on Roshar. Honor and Cultivation, followed some time later by Odium.

 

http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=836 Question 49.

[happyman he/him]

It's like you guys get an idea in your head and forget WoB from interviews. There have only ever been three Shards on Roshar. Honor and Cultivation, followed some time later by Odium.

 

http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=836 Question 49.

 

I've never seen that interview before, but that does clarify things somewhat.

Please note that not all of us follow every interview that carefully, though.  I'm a fan and I like discussing Brandon's books, but I've got other things to do as well.  I appreciate being told when I am wrong and glad to see that we can end discussion on this subject.

[darkanimereal1]

Ok, on the reddit AMA just noticed something I'd not seen before, apologies if it has been mentioned already.

Someone asked if Odium would become a metal if he went to Scadrial. The answer was that this was tied to Identity, and that Odium would need to tinker with things on Scadrial to make this work.

Most interesting to me however, is that Odium has already done this on Roshar.

Forgive my inability to link to a specific reddit post, but here's the quote:

 

 

 

Huh, I'm reading this a different way. I think that Odium needs to tie his Identity to a Shardworld for natives to access his magic, or to be considered part of the natural balance of that world. Hence no metals, since Scadrial has no outlet for Odium's power right now.

 

That makes me wonder what Odium's outlet on Roshar is, however.

 

Right, that's the sense that I'm getting.  That Odium's presence isn't part of the natural Shardic atmosphere of Roshar, and thus magic on Roshar wasn't derived/influenced by him until he changed some things, possibly creating voidbinding or warping existing surgebinding to a mirror version of it.

 

Which brings me back to the quote 'Three of Sixteen ruled, but now the broken one reigns...' - I just don't feel that quote fits if Odium wasn't native to Roshar to begin with, and more and more I'm convinced there is (or was) another Shard on Roshar alongside Cultivation and Honor.

 

Well, we've already established that there are only three Shards on Roshar at any point. I've mentioned this probably three times already, but it applies here as well: Part of me keeps wanting to think that originally when Odium came to Roshar it wasn't technically a bad thing. Perhaps that's what the oathpact was--allowing Odium into the mix, but in a decent way. There would be conflict, but maybe conflict was seen as helping the people rather than allowing themselves to become lazy (as Odium is trying to sit back and let them do now). Something about the phrase "the broken one" makes me believe that there is something wrong with Odium that wasn't when he first came to Roshar.

[Elwynn]

I've never seen that interview before, but that does clarify things somewhat.

Please note that not all of us follow every interview that carefully, though.  I'm a fan and I like discussing Brandon's books, but I've got other things to do as well.  I appreciate being told when I am wrong and glad to see that we can end discussion on this subject.

 

 Methinks I might have come off a little more condescending (read This post has been reported for attempting to skirt the rules-holish) than I meant to. Wasn't trying to belittle you guys or anything. Just trying to help point something out, figured you might have forgotten or something instead of not knowing about it.

 

Sorry about that.

[Isomere]

@12 I'm trying to say Brandon may have been splitting hairs when he said only three shards have been on Roshar. Another shard could have remained on a nearby planet or moon, but its influence filled a large enough space that interactions happened with Roshar as well. This would allow the 4th shard to participate in the Triumvirate and/or the Oathpact without ever technically coming to Roshar. Just based on Shardic Intent I would strongly oppose Odium being part of the Triumvirate, but he definitely would enter into an Oathpact if it gave him opportunity betray, enslave or destroy.

Parallel threads discussing the number of shardic influences on Roshar, thought I'd drop this into both. The other is here.