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Shardblade Hemalurgy/How to resurrect a Spren [Speculation]


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So, to start, a bit of background.

WoB (Paraphrased): Shardblades can be stolen via Hemalurgy

My deductions:

-Hemalurgy must steal the bond to the Shardblade, rather than the Shardblade itself, otherwise the Spikee could simply summon the Blade back

-This could be performed on a person with a living Spren (though I suspect this might annoy the Spren a tad), transferring part or all of the Nahel Bond

-Hemalurgic Decay would cause the Bond to weaken, rather than the Shardblade itself losing power.

-This Decay would result in the Bond ceasing to exist rather than "Breaking"

Additionally, Spren are themselves sentient beings with a Spiritual, Cognitive, and Physical part. This is proven by a Spren's ability to be "pulled" from the Cognitive into the Physical realm via a Spiritual connection.

-therefore, Spren have Spirit Webs

-therefore, Spren can be affected by Hemalurgy if you can find a Physical part of them to jab with a piece of Metal.

-Shardblades are a Physical manifestation of a Spren

So, let's put all of this together and free or resurrect a Shardblade

The obvious way to Resurrect a Shardblade would be to find the former KR, Spike them for the Bond, then transfer the Bond to a willing receptacle able to speak the Oaths. This has some obvious limitations, such as finding a KR who has either been dead or in hiding for thousands or years.

On the other hand, we know exactly where Shardblades are and so could attempt to alter the other end of the Bond and Spike the Shardblade itself. To be 100% honest, I have no idea how this would be accomplished since we don't yet know what Spren "blood" is made from. Likely targets would be either the pommel, where the Gemstone for Bonding is placed, or the cutting edge of the Blade.

Once that is figured out, you Spike the Blade for the Nahel bond, and either leave the Spike out to Decay into nothing naturally over time, or melt it down and Alloy it, destroying the Charge and the Bond with it. At that point, the Shardblade should disappear and the (injured) Spren should return to the Cognitive Realm.

Thoughts? Expansions? Am I totally out of my mind?

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It might work?

Shame the original Radiants have been dead for literally ages.

I saw a WoB that implied the Recreance-Era KRs might not all be dead. I think it was in answer to someone asking about waking up a Shardblade. I'll see if I can find it when I'm not on mobile later today.

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You would have a hard time spiking a Spren you need flowing blood to make hemalurgy work. No WoB if it has to be the victims blood though.

I'm sure Spren have some type of blood-equivalent ("lifeforce" that flows through them)

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If spren can be spiked then a shard logically could be as well. Which makes all the trouble Ruin went through to overpower Preservation a bit silly if he could just stab him.

No Physical Aspect to drive a Spike into, unlike Shardblades which have been pulled into the Physical Realm.

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I saw a WoB that implied the Recreance-Era KRs might not all be dead. I think it was in answer to someone asking about waking up a Shardblade. I'll see if I can find it when I'm not on mobile later today.

 

I would really love to see this one... How can the original knight still be alive? I am now having a weird vision that you need to spike yourself with the shardblade to revive it  :huh: It sprouted into my head when I read this thread, but I have no idea if it makes sense  :ph34r:

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I totally forgot to look for that yesterday, searching now.

From what I remember he didn't say they were alive, it was just the implication

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I'm not finding it... the quote was something like "you'd have to find a KR to do that" or something. He wasn't saying they were alive, but he was implying something was possible, but only on the condition you had one of them alive.

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I'm not finding it... the quote was something like "you'd have to find a KR to do that" or something. He wasn't saying they were alive, but he was implying something was possible, but only on the condition you had one of them alive.

 

Are you sure you are not referring to Pattern stating the Cryptics have tried to revive their own, but failed? He then launched the thought that perhaps had the knights still be alive... Are you sure it was a WoB?

 

I guess we can assume a still living knight may be able to revive his own dead-spren by reciting the oaths again, in the same way Kaladin revived Syl. However, the idea one could have survived for hundred of years is baffling... As for the condition required to revive a dead-Blade, Brandon did state you would have to say the oaths (how many though he did not precised) and do "something more". For example, Brandon did confirmed someone like Adolin could do it, but it would be very difficult, so the original knights do not have to be alive.

 

I am very interested into the "something more" might be.... 

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Brandon has RAFO how long a person can live if using storm light so that might be part of what your thinking of LabRat. 

 

Oh but a Radiant who broke his oath would not be using stormlight anymore... So the possibility of some of them to still be alive seems close to... none.

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Are you sure you are not referring to Pattern stating the Cryptics have tried to revive their own, but failed? He then launched the thought that perhaps had the knights still be alive... Are you sure it was a WoB?

 

I guess we can assume a still living knight may be able to revive his own dead-spren by reciting the oaths again, in the same way Kaladin revived Syl. However, the idea one could have survived for hundred of years is baffling... As for the condition required to revive a dead-Blade, Brandon did state you would have to say the oaths (how many though he did not precised) and do "something more". For example, Brandon did confirmed someone like Adolin could do it, but it would be very difficult, so the original knights do not have to be alive.

 

I am very interested into the "something more" might be....

My friend asked this at a signing and you may be interested to see it.

 

Me- So I noticed during my last read through of WoR that when Adolin summoned his blade, it formed from mist in the shape of vines. Does this mean that the Radiant that the blade was originally bonded to was an Edgedancer?

 

Brandon- Yes, yes it does. (He also had a huge mischievous smile)

 

Me- So I was wondering, if Adolin were to make the same exact oaths, could the Shardblade be revived?

 

Brandon- Something more would have to happen.

 

Me- So it could happen if something else also happened?

 

Brandon- Yes.

 

I don't remember the wording exactly but that's close. I didn't think to ask what that "more" is but I'm sure he would have just RAFO'd me. Anyways, those were my questions. I don't think they've been asked before.

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Unless the theory that radiants develop gemhearts after speaking enough oaths is true, in wich case they could just stay outside during a highstorm...

Of course, the chance of that theory being true is also slim to none.

 

Seems rather far-fetched... I guess I would prefer if the old knights remained dead...

 

 

My friend asked this at a signing and you may be interested to see it.

 

 

Thanks, but I had already seen that one. A very good WoB, one of my favorite. It tells us reviving a dead-Blade is possible even if the original knight is dead. However, it implies the proto-knight in becoming would need to do more than simply say the oaths. Thoughts I had were he needs to be compatible with the spren, aka be someone he or she would have chosen to begin with. 

 

I have thus wondered as to what the mechanism to revive a dead-spren may be... Obviously, something needs to happen... So what is it? This thread made me wonder if you would need to spike yourself with it... Kinda grim.

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If we use Kaladin's experience as a guide, the person reviving the Spren would have to speak the previous oath's +1, at a minimum. So Adolin would have to discover, speak, and act on all of the Edgedancer Oaths, and then probably discover a whole new one, all without the help and guidance of a Nahel Bond.

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Actualy, Syl was alive enough to speak with Kaladin and the Stormfather before he said the third oath. I believe he needed to say one more oath to complete the bond because she was being held back by the Stormfather.

Adolin most likely would have to say the first oath, maybe the second, live by the ideals of his order and get that esoteric "something else" done, wich most likely involves help from living spren, since Pattern said the cryptics already tried restoring life to the broken spren and failed, or from a surgebinder, since their touch brings dead spren closer to life.

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If we use Kaladin's experience as a guide, the person reviving the Spren would have to speak the previous oath's +1, at a minimum. So Adolin would have to discover, speak, and act on all of the Edgedancer Oaths, and then probably discover a whole new one, all without the help and guidance of a Nahel Bond.

 

We do not know if the third oath was required for Kaladin to revive Syl... The maximum oaths Adolin would have to say are 5... I doubt they would create a new one just for him, but it would be nearly impossible for him to guess all of them without any guidance. He may figured out the second one, especially considering he has already started to act on it, but the other ones? So I wager he needs to say two oaths...

 

 

Actualy, Syl was alive enough to speak with Kaladin and the Stormfather before he said the third oath. I believe he needed to say one more oath to complete the bond because she was being held back by the Stormfather.

Adolin most likely would have to say the first oath, maybe the second, live by the ideals of his order and get that esoteric "something else" done, wich most likely involves help from living spren, since Pattern said the cryptics already tried restoring life to the broken spren and failed, or from a surgebinder, since their touch brings dead spren closer to life.

 

I think he needed the third oath to gather enough power to defeat Grave and Moash. Without it, he probably would not have had the fire power to heal himself and fight them.

 

Perhaps he needs to be more than the average knight: perhaps he needs to commit to the spren by doing more than saying the oaths. She was betrayed. She would be fearful to bound another one, so Adolin would have to prove he is willing to cross all bridges for her. Sometimes, I think he needs to die for her.

 

Although it is quite probable the "something more" refers to the help of another Radiant to create a bridge between the entrapped spren and the physical world so it can travel back.

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We do not know if the third oath was required for Kaladin to revive Syl... The maximum oaths Adolin would have to say are 5... I doubt they would create a new one just for him, but it would be nearly impossible for him to guess all of them without any guidance. He may figured out the second one, especially considering he has already started to act on it, but the other ones? So I wager he needs to say two oaths...

I don't think they'd "create" a new one, but rather I think there's no upper-bound to the bond and any of the original KRs could've discovered but failed to.

Even if I'm wrong about the +1, it doesn't make sense that a Spren with a 5-oath hole in its mind/soul/spirit could be healed with a 3-oath patch, it would require all 5 (unless the original bearer only completed 3 oaths)

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That assumes the more oaths are spoken the more broken the spren gets when they are abandoned, wich could be truth up to a certain point, but I would say that you don't realy need oaths to revive a spren, only following the principles of the spren's order with all your mind and soul, and get that "something else" done if it wasn't your spren originaly.

What ressurected Syl wasn't the third oath, but Kaladin puting his life on the line in a attempt to protect someone he hated that he knew would fail, just because that was who he was, who he wanted to be. A guardian.

Edited by CognitivePulsePattern
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I don't think they'd "create" a new one, but rather I think there's no upper-bound to the bond and any of the original KRs could've discovered but failed to.

Even if I'm wrong about the +1, it doesn't make sense that a Spren with a 5-oath hole in its mind/soul/spirit could be healed with a 3-oath patch, it would require all 5 (unless the original bearer only completed 3 oaths)

 

Do we have a WoB stating there is no upper limits to the number of oaths a Radiant can swear? Also, let's not forget the previous Radiant may not have been a level 5... perhaps the Blade belonged to a trainee. We do not know. There has to have been trainee at the time of the Recreance. 

 

I think the spren first need to gain sufficiently conscience to assess the fact his knight is dead. By acknowledging the death of its previous Radiant, the spren becomes free of any oaths and capable of bonding a new one. If this is the case, than Adolin would not need to swear anything more than the 1st oath and progress from there on just as any other knight

 

Or it could be you are right and he needs to swear and additional oath, preventing him from ever harming her again.

 

 

That assumes the more oaths are spoken the more broken the spren gets when they are abandoned, wich could be truth up to a certain point, but I would say that you don't realy need oaths to revive a spren, only following the principles of the spren's order with all your mind and soul, and get that "something else" done if it wasn't your spren originaly.

What ressurected Syl wasn't the third oath, but Kaladin puting his life on the line in a attempt to protect someone he hated that he knew would fail, just because that was who he was, who he wanted to be. A guardian.

 

I interpreted Brandon's WoB on the matter as if the oaths were needed. The dead-spren do not have a full conscience of the physical world, but Brandon also confirmed they retained some conscience. So it may be they are capable to know who is wielding them. After all, Dalinar did state Shardblade, if bonded long enough, would start to physically change to better fit there owner... This leads me to think the spren are not completely blind to the physical world, which would mean Adolin's poor Blade is able to hear him out and perhaps wants to move into the physical realm, but can't. 

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