Mailliw73 he/him Posted March 11, 2013 Posted March 11, 2013 How can Szeth Surgebinders if not bound to a spren? Do all Surgebinders need to be bound to an honorspren? Do we know what type of Blade Szeth has? When Can a Surgebinder begin to Surgebind? When they are bound to a spren or are they just born with it? Kaladin's bag of spheres sticks to him when he tries to toss it to the master surgeon in Amaram's army. Was that actually a windspren? Or was it him Surgebinding unconsciously? In my kindle edition of TWoK, it says, Stormfather, I hate getting a new Landed. Lirin comments when Roshone comes to Hearthstone. What is a Landed and is it in the paper copy?
Meg Posted March 11, 2013 Posted March 11, 2013 How can Szeth Surgebinders if not bound to a spren? Do all Surgebinders need to be bound to an honorspren? Do we know what type of Blade Szeth has? When Can a Surgebinder begin to Surgebind? When they are bound to a spren or are they just born with it? Kaladin's bag of spheres sticks to him when he tries to toss it to the master surgeon in Amaram's army. Was that actually a windspren? Or was it him Surgebinding unconsciously? In my kindle edition of TWoK, it says, Lirin comments when Roshone comes to Hearthstone. What is a Landed and is it in the paper copy? The last at first: I've looked in my e-book and in my paper book, in both of them it's "Landed" too. In the German book it's translated as "city lord". @ Szeth's blade: It is theorized that it is an honorblade (probably Jezrien's). @ "Kaladin's bag of spheres" It's my theory that Syl played her pranks with Kaladin back then. It's more obvious when she sticks his bowl to his fingers (TWoK Chapter 2). So I think, he wasn't unwittingly Surgebinding. That came later (since his first bridgerun).
Krelian Posted March 11, 2013 Posted March 11, 2013 1. We don't know how Szeth does his Lashings yet. 2. Depends on your definition of Surgebinder, I think. Is Szeth a spren-less Surgebinder? Or is he something completely different? To be in one of the orders of the Knights Radiant, I believe, necessitates a spren. Szeth is proof that it's not the only way to that power though. 3. No, other than that it's unusual (much shorter and thinner than most). 4. Not sure. I'd guess there is a genetic and/or destiny component to it, but I'd also guess that the emergence of the spren and the manifestation of any abilities comes concurrently. That matches the timing with Amaram's army and Syl pretty well, since we know she was watching him then. Landed is almost certainly just a term for lighteyes/nobility.
Kurkistan he/him Posted March 11, 2013 Posted March 11, 2013 (edited) Just to clear things up, gaining magic on Roshar definitely isn't based on destiny/genetics: [brandon] talked about the link between his magic systems. One of the core principles is 'investing'. In l lot of his systems people are trough some mechanism invested with magic powers. In Elantris trough the Shaod, In mistborn it's genetic, in tWoK it depends on what some one has done. English is a bit broken there, here's a link to a cleaned up version: http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=608#15 Edited March 11, 2013 by Kurkistan 1
Krelian Posted March 11, 2013 Posted March 11, 2013 Just to clear things up, gaining magic on Roshar definitely isn't based on destiny/genetics: English is a bit broken there, here's a link to a cleaned up version: http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=608#15 I'd argue that genetics still plays a part in temperament, which has some effect on actions. I don't think Kaladin was born destined to be a KR. But I'd wager that someone born with sociopathic tendencies, for example, would be a whole lot less likely to bond with an honorspren...
Windrunner he/him Posted March 11, 2013 Posted March 11, 2013 And I'm just saying, I think that it's fairly likely that you have to be a Rosharan to bond a spren, or be spiked with whatever other unknown quality allows for that bond. After all, even if you get just get Breath from Nalthis, you can't Awaken.
Satsuoni he/him Posted March 12, 2013 Posted March 12, 2013 After all, even if you get just get Breath from Nalthis, you can't Awaken. Could you please give a source on that?
Windrunner he/him Posted March 12, 2013 Posted March 12, 2013 ZASAfter several more signings, I asked my other question. "Do people in the Comsere, besides Nalthis, have Breaths?" BRANDON SANDERSON "No." He then signed a person's books, then said "To elaborate a little more, that's not to say they don't have a life force, because they do. But if someone not from Nalthis were to suddenly gain the ability to become an Awakener, they could not use what they have to Awaken something. That's not to say that they can't receive breaths though." Source Emphasis mine. This quote, to me at least, clearly implies that Awakening is an "ability" rather than simply having Breath.
Satsuoni he/him Posted March 12, 2013 Posted March 12, 2013 Ah, I see your point. I wonder if that means that they can't give breaths back, since the process is largely identical. Of course, it does not state that receiving Breath won't give you the ability to manipulate it... Still, food for thought.
Windrunner he/him Posted March 12, 2013 Posted March 12, 2013 But it does hint that Awakening is an ability, which I think implies it's not something that just anybody in the cosmere can do. The fact that you have to "gain" the ability to Awaken means that there are people who are unable to do so, which I'd bet is anyone not from Nalthis, with the potential exception of anyone who lived before the Shattering.
Krelian Posted March 12, 2013 Posted March 12, 2013 I'd guess the ability to give and receive Breaths might be present in children of other worlds, but it's meaningless unless they're on Nalthis. The ability to use Investiture is separate from the Investiture itself in that case. Kind of like Scadrial, but on Scadrial it's a bit more portable once you have the ability and want to leave....
Windrunner he/him Posted March 12, 2013 Posted March 12, 2013 I strongly disagree with that. We've seen no evidence of any localization in Awakening, like we do on Sel.
Satsuoni he/him Posted March 12, 2013 Posted March 12, 2013 Eh. Well. As I said, food for thought. The possibilities I see are: 1. Non-nalthians can't give Breath after they get it. No Awakening 2. First Breath they get sticks to them as to the lifeless, and gives ability to Awaken. The breath is lost, though. 3. They gain ability to Awaken from Breath itself, and lose it once they run out. They can't withdraw their breath from objects if they lose ability. 3a. They can withdraw Breath from objects 4. They can transfer received Breaths to other people. No awakening. 5. A single Breath wakes up their Awakening, and can then be given away without damaging that ability As an offtopic, Windrunner, do you know if Mistborn japanese covers are available anywhere? And if not, is there any need in them? I can take photos in store (probably), since I found them pretty.
Krelian Posted March 12, 2013 Posted March 12, 2013 If there are no Breaths to give or receive where you are, how would you know? If it's far less common on other worlds (which seems incredibly likely), no one away from Nalthis would necessarily know.
Phantom Monstrosity Posted March 12, 2013 Posted March 12, 2013 I strongly disagree with that. We've seen no evidence of any localization in Awakening, like we do on Sel. We have Word of Brandon that there are potential weird effects from going between shardworlds. I'll search for the quote later.
happyman he/him Posted March 12, 2013 Posted March 12, 2013 Landed is almost certainly just a term for lighteyes/nobility. I would tweak this definition to "lighteyes/nobility who owns, or at least controls, property." Although owning property and being nobility are often correlated, historically, they aren't the same. From what little I know, the pecking order would go Landed Nobility > Unlanded Nobility > Landed Commoner > Commoner, with a decent jump in practical authority/respect at each level. Thus Lirin would be complaining about getting a new overlord/landlord.
Mailliw73 he/him Posted March 12, 2013 Author Posted March 12, 2013 I just thought it was weird that the word Landed is only used once and the rest of the time it was city lord.
Windrunner he/him Posted March 12, 2013 Posted March 12, 2013 We have Word of Brandon that there are potential weird effects from going between shardworlds. I'll search for the quote later. I understand this. What I'm saying is that Awakening itself has shown no indication that it would end up with any weird effects. Contrast that with AonDor and perhaps what I'm saying will be clearer. Also, there is a mention of Landless Regardless, to find a lighteyes here meant that his family hadn’t been wealthy enough, or concerned enough, to send men out to recover him. His face was crushed beyond recognition, but his rank insignia identified him as seventh dahn. Landless, attached to a more powerful officer’s retinue.
happyman he/him Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 Also, there is a mention of Landless Regardless, to find a lighteyes here meant that his family hadn’t been wealthy enough, or concerned enough, to send men out to recover him. His face was crushed beyond recognition, but his rank insignia identified him as seventh dahn. Landless, attached to a more powerful officer’s retinue. This is about what I would expect. We have Landed and Landless lighteyes, with Landless having lower rank, apparently. Very old pattern, then.
Krelian Posted March 13, 2013 Posted March 13, 2013 This is about what I would expect. We have Landed and Landless lighteyes, with Landless having lower rank, apparently. Very old pattern, then. Yep, makes sense. I think it's odd that the phrase is only used twice in the whole book, despite numerous references to city lords and lighteyes, but maybe even in Roshar the Landed/Landless terminology is becoming a bit archaic.
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