Allomantically burning a Hemalurgic Spike

[Chromium Compounder]

I'm rereading Mistborn: TFE right now. During the scene when Vin is testing the idea of trying to burn one of Sazed's metalminds, which is so close to compounding. She can't access the energy she can feel in his metalmind which is different from the regular energy from the metal, but she can feel it, which is what Sazed says Feruchemists feel if they try to tap each others metalminds. Hence the need to be both a Feruchemist and an Allomancer with the same metal in order to compound.

While I was thinking about all of that I began thinking about Hemalurgy. Hemalurgy doesn't care who the energy belongs to. In fact it's all about stealing the powers of one person to give them to someone else. So that made me wonder what would happen if an Allomancer were to burn a Hemalurgic spike.

I see four possibilities:

First is that there would be no affect outside of regularly burning the metal. This makes a certain amount of sense because Hemalurgy is such a complicated art. Spikes can store many things, and can be used in many ways with widely varying effects, but I seem to remember that those effects are partially to do with how the spikes are placed in the body. It's quite possible that the burning process wouldn't qualify for any use of a spike.

Second is that the Allomancer would gain an extremely powerful version of the ability within the spike, but they would only last as long as they continue burning. I see this one as very possible as well. It feels like compounding does, but instead of granting a powerful attribute it grants a powerful ability. Unfortunately it would be rather difficult to use a newly gained ability while burning the spike. If it was an ability you already had, like say it was a pewter spike which held the ability to burn pewter, then burning it would turn you temporarily into Chuck Norris' little brother, but if it held a feruchemical ability then it would be pretty worthless because you'd have to store your strength while you were burning the spike and then draw the strength while burning the spike.

Third is that the Allomancer would permanently gain the ability within the spike. It would be like they're spiked, without being spiked. Personally, this is my favorite option, but I see less reasons to back it up.

Fourth is that it would have some other effect. Again my mind is drawn to the wide variety of things which can come from Hemalurgy based on how it's used. If this is a valid way to use a hemalurgic spike the result could be something completely different from granting the ability which is within the spike.

Any other ideas?

[FlashWrogan]

MARU NUI ()

What happens when you burn a Hemalurgic spike?

BRANDON SANDERSON ()

Burning a Hemalurgic spike would have the effect of splicing your spiritual DNA to that of the person's that is in the spike, which would have some very strange consequences.


Source

[Phantom Monstrosity]

Brandon's stance has changed on this over time.

Twitter (2009)

Czanos: Would anything interesting happen if an Allomancer Burned a Hemalurgic spike, or a Feruchemist Tapped one?

Er, well, it’s possible. But you’d have to be burning a Hemalurgic spike that killed you and took your power... Just like you can’t gain anything by burning a metalmind unless you infused it yourself.

There's also this interview from Oct 2010

17th Shard: So the linchpin spike is not always the same type of spike.

Brandon: It doesn't have to be. The linchpin spike is just, when you're putting that many spikes together into somebody it needs a spike to coordinate them all. That is part of what's holding their body together from all of this damage, and it doesn't have to be the healing spike. The nature of Feruchemy is separate from that, if that makes any sense. For instance, you could put a few spikes into an Inquisitor without a linchpin spike, and they wouldn't die.

17th Shard: Can you burn the spikes? Like, Allomantically? For example, could they burn the steel in their head spikes?

Brandon: (sighs) I considered that and I eventually decided that they could, but it would be an excruciating process that would probably knock them unconscious simply by doing it.

17th Shard: Would they be able to tap?

Brandon: Would they tap them? They can use them as metalminds, yes.

The Tor Q&A from the previous post was from Jan 2011

And, while this is a bit of a joke, it kind of goes along with the 'he's revised how the system works, and now you can burn other dudes' spikes' stance

P.S. There's also been a long standing debate on whether an Allomacer could burn the One Ring, stance on that?

Burn the One Ring, eh? I think it's such a powerfully invested object that it would be very, very dangerous to try.

So, you know how Vin and Elend sold the Lord Ruler's atium bracers? Kinda wonder what happened to them. I mean, they're made of atium, basically all anyone does is burn that stuff.

[Chromium Compounder]

Cool. I did a search before I posted, but didn't see anything which really answered it.

[Millennium]

The similarity between Hemalurgy and Feruchemy on this is interesting. It seems to imply that stolen Spiritweb-fragments and stored attributes may work along similar lines, despite the obvious differences for access. But thinking back to the "linchpin spike" thing, I wonder if that could be considered a link between Hemalurgy and Forging, which also requires a "linchpin" (in the form of a stamp) for especially complex work.

[Voidus]

Well Hemalurgy and Forging are pretty similar, every Shardworld we've seen so far has had a universally accessible magic system, one that doesn't need to be acquired just learned, although Nalthis may be the exception to that, since you need Breath, but everyone on Nalthis could at least make 1 lifeless if they studied. On Roshar we have Artifabrians and their fabrials, on Sel it's Forging, on Scadrial it's Hemalurgy. I wonder if Brandon did it deliberately or if it's more of a coincidence.

[Phantom Monstrosity]

Is that the case for Forging any more than it is for the kung-fu dor-access?

[Voidus]

Well we know pretty much nothing about ChayShan, so it could be, but there's not really much to say one way or the other.

[entropicscholar]

So, you know how Vin and Elend sold the Lord Ruler's atium bracers? Kinda wonder what happened to them. I mean, they're made of atium, basically all anyone does is burn that stuff.

 

now I haven't read the entire thread, but I wanted to pose a possible explanation here:

Marsh had 2 hemelurgic spikes, made of atium. (Allomantic atium and Feruchemical atium)

*this would also give Marsh all of the Lord Ruler's stored youth.

[entropicscholar]

So, you know how Vin and Elend sold the Lord Ruler's atium bracers? Kinda wonder what happened to them. I mean, they're made of atium, basically all anyone does is burn that stuff.

didn't Marsh have 2 hemelurgic spikes made of Atium?

Allomantic atium, and Feruchemical atium.

 

(sadly, I don't think he got TLR's stored youth)

[Arook]

Despite WoB facts in the book tell me a spike used as a spike can't be burned thought normal means other wise when Vin burns aluminum(I think that is the right metal) she would have burned her earring. Some kind of special effort would be needed to burn a spike. She also never feels the reserve of power like she does when consuming metals normally. 

 

How ever using them as a metal mind could change the property of them.

 

Side note anyone know if it is possible to steal a Feruchemist ability  with  spikes.

Edited December 23, 2013 by Arook

[name_here]

I don't think metals that pierce the body but are not in the stomach would be available for burning, so it would not be affected by aluminum. If her earring would be burnable if it weren't a spike, people would almost certainly have commented on her inability to do so and Allomancers would probably wear earrings instead of swallowing metals because that way they don't have to worry about metal toxicity or ruining excess metal via digestion.

 

Also, Vin's beads after the revolution came from the bracers and burned just fine with no odd effects. Quite possibly the spike's effects were destroyed at some point in the process, or the bracers contained several distinct materials that had been twisted or welded together and the Atium didn't carry a charge.

 

 

Side note anyone know if it is possible to steal a Feruchemist ability  with  spikes.

 

Yes; a quarter of the normal metal types steal Feruchemical abilities.

Edited December 23, 2013 by name_here

[Arook]

I don't think metals that pierce the body but are not in the stomach would be available for burning, so it would not be affected by aluminum. If her earring would be burnable if it weren't a spike, people would almost certainly have commented on her inability to do so and Allomancers would probably wear earrings instead of swallowing metals because that way they don't have to worry about metal toxicity or ruining excess metal via digestion.

 

Also, Vin's beads after the revolution came from the bracers and burned just fine with no odd effects. Quite possibly the spike's effects were destroyed at some point in the process, or the bracers contained several distinct materials that had been twisted or welded together and the Atium didn't carry a charge.

 

 

 

earrings would not be as effective you would cut them in half and the extra metal would fall to the ground. Gold compounder's are the only ones that put metal in their body. But we know the lord ruler was using the bracers for youth so they don't need to be completely in the body to be used.

 

Also I thought they sold the bracers and the beads they had were what little they found in the palace.

[name_here]

Nope, beads came from the bracers.

[Satsuoni]

Nope, beads came from the bracers.

What?

Where did you get that info?

 

They had found some small bit—the atium that had made up the bracers that the Lord Ruler had used as a Feruchemical battery to store up age. However, they had spent those on supplies for the city, and they had actually contained only a very small bit of atium.

Well, as Phantom has pointed out, Brandon's stance seemed to vary on what exactly would happen when a spike is burned. Maybe the effect from other person's spike is weak and temporary.