Who was the Slain Shardbearer?

[BlairJ he/him]

So there is a really big spoiler in this question, so if you have not read WoK, do not proceed in in reading this.

Do we know who the shardbearer is that Kaladin killed (I believe he was Veden if I remember correctly)? I could not find reference to who he was. If not, does anyone have any theories?

Also, I guess this is kind of a personal moral dilemma I have been thinking about, but knowing Kaladin's past, would you have abandoned the shard plate and shard blade or would you have immediately put it on anyways?

Final question; was there any reference to regret that Kaladin showed for not becoming a shardbearer on that day? I know that he hates the lighteyes even more, but I do not recall a direct reference or quote to, "I should have picked up that shard plate and blade that day".

Edited March 7, 2013 by BlairJ

[Voidus]

The identity of the Shardbearer is unknown although it's almost certainly a member of the ghostbloods, some people have speculated that it might be Shallans eldest brother (the one who went missing)

To be honest if I was in Kals position I probably would have taken the Shards.

And finally no, he never says he regrets not taking the Shards (As far as I know anyway)

[Meg]

There have been at least three other threads about this question :)/>.

I don't remember a passage in TWoK where Kaladin regrets not to have taken this Shards. I may err here (I don't have my book handy).

And whether I would have taken this Shards or not: I really don't know but I fear I'm not that honorable as Kaladin. On the other side: who knows, having the same past perhaps it would have been wrong to me as it was for Kaladin.

[Cheese Ninja he/him]

I don't remember a particular scene where he regrets not taking the shards for himself either. Mostly he just seemed angry at Amaram and Lighteyes in general after that.

The dead guy being Helaran Davar is a theory I'm extraordinarily fond, partially because I started it, and partially because it fits well. There are some disagreements with others about the vagueness of the timeline. Amaram eventually found out who it was BS Q&A

I would have taken the shards, that degree of lethality and protection would be pretty useful on the battlefield, and if you ever got tired of fighting and felt like going AWOL, no one would be able to stop you.

[ADIMORTIS he/him]

In the original draft of WOK ,kaladin takes the shards.

Sorry, just couldn't find the link for it.

[Ness]

There is a line somewhere late in the book where Kaladin says something along the lines of "But taking the Shards still turned his stomach" Don't have a page number though.

[BlairJ he/him]

Thank you for all of the responses. I apologize for posting the first place, as it appears it was already asked (3 times I might add) but my search button must be broken. Beyond that, I really enjoy your thoughts about what you would have done.

Personally, I would have taken the shards. I am certainly not as noble as Kaladin and though I would try and use them for good, I truly believe that vengeance would be the first thing I would have gone after.

[Meg]

In the original draft of WOK ,kaladin takes the shards.

Sorry, just couldn't find the link for it.

Here Brandon mentioned this. I didn't look further.

There is a line somewhere late in the book where Kaladin says something along the lines of "But taking the Shards still turned his stomach" Don't have a page number though.

He could have been rich. He’d given it all away, just like that.

And still, the mere thought of touching that Blade turned his stomach.

TWoK Ch. 55

I hope this is, what you remembered. Though it's "late" in the book, it's from the end of that day when Kaladin killed the Shardbearer and got his sas nahn brand.

[Arran]

One thing I wonder is if Kaladin had claimed the Shards for himself, would Amaram have let him keep them? Even if Amaram initially decided to do so, both out of respect for the "winner gets the Shards" custom and out of gratitude to Kaladin for saving his life, I'm certain his advisers would still have urged him to steal the Shards and have Kaladin and his men executed.

[happyman he/him]

One thing I wonder is if Kaladin had claimed the Shards for himself, would Amaram have let him keep them? Even if Amaram initially decided to do so, both out of respect for the "winner gets the Shards" custom and out of gratitude to Kaladin for saving his life, I'm certain his advisers would still have urged him to steal the Shards and have Kaladin and his men executed.

Taking a shard from somebody once it's been claimed is kinda tough. Might may not make right, but it certainly weighs heavily on the possible and the likely.

[Voidus]

And they'd have to kill him to get the Shards if he'd claimed them, the only way Amaram was able to salvage even a little honor was by letting Kaladin live.

[FlashWrogan he/him]

The only Amaram would have been able to do it in that scenario is to pretty much kill him and his men on the spot. The minute he walked into camp either wearing or accompanying that shardplate he would have been an instant legend.

[happyman he/him]

The only Amaram would have been able to do it in that scenario is to pretty much kill him and his men on the spot. The minute he walked into camp either wearing or accompanying that shardplate he would have been an instant legend.

This too. We have to remember the whole social aspect of the thing. Amaran couldn't be seen to steal the Shards. In some ways, that's better protection than the (not insignificant) protection of the Shards themselves.

Man, humans can be strange.

[Arran]

The only Amaram would have been able to do it in that scenario is to pretty much kill him and his men on the spot. The minute he walked into camp either wearing or accompanying that shardplate he would have been an instant legend.

IMO even if Kaladin had claimed the Shards, Amaram and his minions could still have made their move at the same time they did in the book. Kaladin was caught completely by surprised when it happened, and IMO he wouldn't have had enough time to summon his new Shardblade before he was slain (and given that he'd have had such a powerful weapon just ten heartbeats away, I believe Amaram's lackeys would have killed Kaladin outright instead of just incapacitating him).

[FlashWrogan he/him]

IMO even if Kaladin had claimed the Shards, Amaram and his minions could still have made their move at the same time they did in the book. Kaladin was caught completely by surprised when it happened, and IMO he wouldn't have had enough time to summon his new Shardblade before he was slain (and given that he'd have had such a powerful weapon just ten heartbeats away, I believe Amaram's lackeys would have killed Kaladin outright instead of just incapacitating him).

But there is a key difference in how events progressed/would progress. I got the impression in the TWoK that Coreb did not immediately accept the shardblade and plate. This would have made the remains of his squad much more pensive about what happened as opposed to, "did you hear, Kaladin won a shardblade!" We don't see any sign of the armor in that scene, and the sword is being carried on a a white cloth. This shows that it hadn't been claimed in reality yet. If Kaladin had chosen to take up the weapons, he would have taken the sword then and there, perhaps even put the armor on. It is also likely that he would have kept the blade summoned when he walked into camp and the word would have spread quickly. Even if he hadn't, it would have been harder to keep quiet.

[Arran]

But there is a key difference in how events progressed/would progress. I got the impression in the TWoK that Coreb did not immediately accept the shardblade and plate. This would have made the remains of his squad much more pensive about what happened as opposed to, "did you hear, Kaladin won a shardblade!" We don't see any sign of the armor in that scene, and the sword is being carried on a a white cloth. This shows that it hadn't been claimed in reality yet.

Yes, it seems like Kaladin talked the matter over with his men, but first wanted to inform Amaram of his decision and have it be officially accepted by the army's commander before letting Coreb take up the Shards.

If Kaladin had chosen to take up the weapons, he would have taken the sword then and there, perhaps even put the armor on. It is also likely that he would have kept the blade summoned when he walked into camp and the word would have spread quickly. Even if he hadn't, it would have been harder to keep quiet.

Perhaps. It's true that if Kaladin had put on the armor right after killing the Shardbearer and kept it on until he returned to camp, Amaram most likely wouldn't have been able to steal the Shards. But ultimately my point was that as long as Kaladin and his men remained isolated from the the rest of the camp, Amaram and his lackeys had an opportunity to steal the Shards.