Monsterwraiths

[Inkthinker]

Koloss makes much more sense. Still, I think it is interesting that the digestion of a koloss passes on some of the prey's behavioral characteristics to the mistwraith (not just physical ones). Makes me wonder what would happen if a kandra digested a koloss...

To this point, I would suggest that the psychotic aggression of the koloss may very well be a physical characteristic... the result of enlarged, runaway glandular processes combined with reduced brain capacity. Hence, for a barely-sentient mistwraith to absorb that body and those spikes results in a conglomeration of mismatched corpse parts with out-of-control glands and psychotic aggressive tendencies.

As for what would happen to a kandra that takes a koloss body as their own... gosh, I don't know, but I bet it wouldn't be pretty. There are existing rules for taking in hemalurgically charged iron spikes (it's the Blessing of Potency, I believe) but I don't know if getting used ones from a koloss would make a difference.

If I were gaming it, I'd say that the kandra would gain the usual Iron Spike benefits... maybe with a bit of bonus... but they would need to make more frequent and more difficult checks to avoid sudden, irrational and homicidal rages, just like the koloss (if it's a player, they literally lose control of their character for a set period of time to the gamemaster, who will probably make awful things happen). If I were writing it, it'd be a slow spiraling descent into homicidal madness. In either case, I'd probably rule that eventually the kandra goes insane and kills everyone he knows or loves, if he doesn't get rid of the spikes or have them taken from him.

Might make for an interesting character story, a kandra that must disguise itself as a koloss for some reason or another, and has to struggle with the koloss rage and the body, while trying to maintain their own sense of identity.

-EDIT- I accidentally some words.

Edited March 2, 2013 by Inkthinker

[Vortaan he/him]

To this point, I would suggest that the psychotic aggression of the koloss may very well be a physical characteristic... the result of enlarged, runaway glandular processes combined with reduced brain capacity. Hence, for a barely-sentient mistwraith to absorb that body and those spikes results in a conglomeration of mismatched corpse parts with out-of-control glands and psychotic aggressive tendencies.

As for what would happen to a kandra that takes a koloss body as their own... gosh, I don't know, but I bet it wouldn't be pretty. There are existing rules for taking in hemalurgically charged iron spikes (it's the Blessing of Potency, I believe) but I don't know if getting used ones from a koloss would make a difference.

If I were gaming it, I'd say that the kandra would gain the usual Iron Spike benefits... maybe with a bit of bonus... but they would need to make more frequent and more difficult checks to avoid sudden, irrational and homicidal rages, just like the koloss (if it's a player, they literally lose control of their character for a set period of time to the gamemaster, who will probably make awful things happen). If I were writing it, it'd be a slow spiraling descent into homicidal madness. In either case, I'd probably rule that eventually the kandra goes insane and kills everyone he knows or loves, if he doesn't get rid of the spikes or have them taken from him.

Might make for an interesting character story, a kandra that must disguise itself as a koloss for some reason or another, and has to struggle with the koloss rage and the body, while trying to maintain their own sense of identity.

-EDIT- I accidentally some words.

Honestly you'd still be fighting the nature of kandra/mistwraiths. They are scavengers, not predators. Even as kandra, their culture is very much a non-confrontational one. It seems to take a LOT to be branded a kandra criminal, although possibly a lot less to be branded unorthodox. So the question becomes what do intelligent scavengers with increased aggression do? For added kicks, and to prevent insanity, have the kandra that ate the koloss have the Blessing of... Presence I think it was? The one that was emotional fortitude.

[Senor Feesh]

For added kicks, and to prevent insanity, have the kandra that ate the koloss have the Blessing of... Presence I think it was? The one that was emotional fortitude.

Think that's Blessing of Stability?

Also, apologies to Comatose, I misinterpreted from my reading of your prior post.

Edited March 2, 2013 by Senor Feesh

[Inkthinker]

Why prevent insanity? Conflict and struggle make for a better story. :)/>

Seeking out a Blessing of Stability (zinc, according to the game) would make a good plot goal, though.

I think one of the fundamental points of monsterwraiths was that they are NOT intelligent, at least not in the same way that the traditional kandra are. I'm sure we could write around it, but the monsterwraith still isn't in full control of its shapeshifting (hence the congolmeration of body parts) and probably not as smart as the koloss it consumed, much less a human.

Does obtaining ANY spikes grant a mistwraith intelligence? I thought you needed the Blessing of Presence first. You can compound your abilities with additional, different spikes, but don't all kandra require the Blessing of Presence to awaken them?

Even if that's not the case, the spikes a monsterwraith absorbs from a koloss may not the same as those spikes designed to uplift the kandra. Same material, different application, possibly different because the SDNA has been tainted by the koloss?

Edited March 2, 2013 by Inkthinker

[Senor Feesh]

I'm not sure about the books (although I'm 90% certain they agree) but the Mistborn RPG states that any Blessing awakens a Mistwraith to sentience. I'm fairly certain that in HoA TenSoon is unique in having four spikes after killing OreSeur.

Also, it says blessings don't stack, so you wouldn't get additional effects from absorbing more of the same type (although this may be true for Kandra, there's no reason it has to be this way for Monsterwraiths or other creatures).

[Krelian]

I'm not sure about the books (although I'm 90% certain they agree) but the Mistborn RPG states that any Blessing awakens a Mistwraith to sentience. I'm fairly certain that in HoA TenSoon is unique in having four spikes after killing OreSeur.

Also, it says blessings don't stack, so you wouldn't get additional effects from absorbing more of the same type (although this may be true for Kandra, there's no reason it has to be this way for Monsterwraiths or other creatures).

Yes, any of the Blessings works exactly the same way as far as awakening them. I'm not sure that TenSoon was the ONLY one to ever have 4, but he mentioned that killing OreSeur gave him the right to the spikes. And Kandra killing Kandra (outside of executions, where I assume the spikes are reused on Mistwraiths) apparently never really happens. So it'd be exceedingly rare.

[Satsuoni he/him]

Arbitrary Kvothes from HoA, interpret however you will I thought they might clear some things up, though.

Koloss are not the melding of two people, but five, as evidenced by the four spikes needed to make them. Not five bodies, of course, but five souls.

Each pair of spikes grants what the kandra would call the Blessing of Potency. However, each spike also distorts the koloss body a little more, making it increasingly inhuman.

One might think that kandra are changed most of all. However, one must remember that new kandra are made from mistwraiths, and not humans. The spikes worn by the kandra cause only a small transformation in their hosts—leaving their bodies mostly like that of a mistwraith, but allowing their minds to begin working. Ironically, while the spikes dehumanize the koloss, they give a measure of humanity to the kandra.

Sometimes he wondered if the unbirthed—the creatures that the humans called mistwraiths—were more honest than their brothers the kandra. The mistwraiths would form a body however they wished, connecting bones in odd arrangements, making almost artistic designs from both human and animal bones.

[Tarontos he/him]

I am fairly certain somewhere in HoA Marsh talks about the size of the spike mattering in hemurlogic decay. Some time around when he spikes Penrod. I don't have a copy but his explains why the spikes that Tensoon stores don't loose as much energy.

Vins earing may only give her a slight edge and be cause she's already strong compared to other Mistborn it could just tip her over the edge

[Krelian]

I am fairly certain somewhere in HoA Marsh talks about the size of the spike mattering in hemurlogic decay. Some time around when he spikes Penrod. I don't have a copy but his explains why the spikes that Tensoon stores don't loose as much energy.

Vins earing may only give her a slight edge and be cause she's already strong compared to other Mistborn it could just tip her over the edge

I don't have the book on hand right this second, but the quote you're thinking of was, I think, that the size of the spike doesn't matter much. Large spikes are used for Inquisitors for psychological effect mostly, but small spikes are more practical and often preferable, especially when doing something like spiking someone without them realizing what happened.

The Hemalurgic decay is mostly a function of the speed of spiking and the time between the spike being driven and placed. Brandon has said that the flow of fresh blood is a factor, but I don't think it's been elaborated on.

[Kurkistan he/him]

^I'm fairly sure it's the opposite, actually. IIRC, Marsh spikes some random misting noble, then hightails it to Luthadel and spikes [governor guy] in the heart. After spiking the noble with a relatively small (palm-sized) spike, he internally comments on it not holding a charge as well as larger ones. Since Marsh is essentially Ruin's avatar at that point, I think we'll go with him

Edited March 8, 2013 by Kurkistan

[Satsuoni he/him]

Sigh. Here are the quotes you are looking for (HoA) :)/>/>

Marsh sighed at the injustice of it, then slammed the unconscious man down against the floor and drove a small bronze spike through his heart. It wasn’t as large or thick as an Inquisitor spike, but it killed just as well.

Impaling an unwilling subject with a Hemalurgic spike was a very tricky prospect. The spike’s size was, in this case, immaterial. Just as a pinch of metal dust could fuel Allomancy for a time, or a small ring could hold a small Feruchemical charge, a rather small bit of metal could work for Hemalurgy. Inquisitor spikes were made large to be intimidating, but a small pin could, in many instances, be just as effective as a massive spike. It depended on how long one wanted to leave the spike outside of a person’s body after using it to kill someone.

For Marsh’s purposes this day, a small spike was preferable; he didn’t want to give Penrod powers, just pierce him with metal. Marsh pulled out the spike he had made from the Allomancer in the doomed town a few days back. It was about five inches long—actually bigger than it needed to be, strictly speaking.

There was also some info/speculation on the decay rate and capacity of spikes, which I can't find now. Essentially, smaller spikes can still store enough of the human soul to be effective, but will decay much faster, so the maximum amount of charge you can accumulate on one of them (by repeatedly killing more people) is less. The effect of removing the spike after implantation and keeping it outside is not well known, and my theory of charge fixing (slowing the decay down) is mainly based on the above quote vs Vin keeping a much smaller spike outside for months (as opposed to two days of a largish spike "not giving powers")

EDIT:

Ah! here is where I got the notion about Sazed fixing kandra, straight from the annotations:

TenSoon is still around. (Sazed stuck the spikes back into him and the other kandra.)

Edited March 11, 2013 by Satsuoni