Voidus Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 Except that Aon Ene can give him enhaced mental capability and reasoning, which coupled with Vin using only metal coins as a weapons and carrying extra metal with her should give him the ability to at least figure out that metal is a bad deal with her around. And he doesn't have to target the metal individually if he can just create an AoE. And again all assuming Raoden isn't standing next to one of the many permanent Aons in Elantris that would let him end the fight with a thought. We have no idea if such Aons exist, and even if they did it would at the least need modifiers otherwise he'd kill himself too, and again Vin would see it beforehand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgedancer he/him Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 We have no idea if such Aons exist, and even if they did it would at the least need modifiers otherwise he'd kill himself too, and again Vin would see it beforehand. Are you refering to the last point? Because both Daa and Ehe would do the job just fine and with it being a permanent Aon it also already would have modifiers. Alternatively, it could just be a teleporter getting him out of her range and letting him snipe her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 Are you refering to the last point? Because both Daa and Ehe would do the job just fine and with it being a permanent Aon it also already would have modifiers. Alternatively, it could just be a teleporter getting him out of her range and letting him snipe her. The teleportation plates teleport to specific places and Vin would probably do better at range than Raoden would, she's used to long range sneaking battles, he isn't. As for the other two why would there already be Aons with modifiers to target specifically Vin just lying around Elantris? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgedancer he/him Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 The teleportation plates teleport to specific places and Vin would probably do better at range than Raoden would, she's used to long range sneaking battles, he isn't. As for the other two why would there already be Aons with modifiers to target specifically Vin just lying around Elantris? Except that Vin has a range limit and doesn't know where the teleporter takes Raoden, while he has no range limit we know of and is aware of her location. It doesn't have to be so much"target that specific location" as much as "target everything on this plaza/street ect except the spot I'm standing in right now" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 Except that Vin has a range limit and doesn't know where the teleporter takes Raoden, while he has no range limit we know of and is aware of her location. It doesn't have to be so much"target that specific location" as much as "target everything on this plaza/street ect except the spot I'm standing in right now" He'd know where she is for about 1 second after he teleported, by then she would have moved. If such an Aon existed at a convenient location nearby, despite no mention of defensive Aons like that being placed in Elantris and it did avoid hitting him still (Pretty much any method of destruction would still blow him up even if it didn't specifically target him, but hey let's just suppose it also throws up a handy shield) then Vin would still be able to Steelpush her way to safety since she'd see it coming then squish him against the ground. There's very few ways to checkmate a full Mistborn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgedancer he/him Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 He'd know where she is for about 1 second after he teleported, by then she would have moved. If such an Aon existed at a convenient location nearby, despite no mention of defensive Aons like that being placed in Elantris and it did avoid hitting him still (Pretty much any method of destruction would still blow him up even if it didn't specifically target him, but hey let's just suppose it also throws up a handy shield) then Vin would still be able to Steelpush her way to safety since she'd see it coming then squish him against the ground. There's very few ways to checkmate a full Mistborn. At which point we are down to a game of cat and mouse, which means time, which means it favours Raoden. Oh, it is absolutely unlikely. The thing with matches like this is just that most of the time both outcomes are possible, so the best that can be done is search for the most likely outcome and for that assuming Vin gets lucky with metal being in a good location for her to use but no Aons, no matter the kind, that Raoden can use just isn't the best way to approach this, as setting the playing field to have an random advantage where one party just wins, not because they are "better" but because they got lucky seems faulty, at least to me. If there's a situation in which Vin can immediately win by lucky metal placement, then sure she's going to win, in other situations Raoden is going to win and be it soley by Vin's metals running out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 At which point we are down to a game of cat and mouse, which means time, which means it favours Raoden. Oh, it is absolutely unlikely. The thing with matches like this is just that most of the time both outcomes are possible, so the best that can be done is search for the most likely outcome and for that assuming Vin gets lucky with metal being in a good location for her to use but no Aons, no matter the kind, that Raoden can use just isn't the best way to approach this, as setting the playing field to have an random advantage where one party just wins, not because they are "better" but because they got lucky seems faulty, at least to me. If there's a situation in which Vin can immediately win by lucky metal placement, then sure she's going to win, in other situations Raoden is going to win and be it soley by Vin's metals running out. Not necessarily, even without Atium she's the much more experienced fighter, with superior senses and one who's been trained in stealth, Elantris is big, Vin could just follow him and wait til he falls asleep to stab him if nothing else. Metal placement isn't lucky though. Saying 'Oh and there's an Aon here that Raoden can use to blow up the street' would be closer to saying 'oh and Raodens standing on a grenade with a metal pin that Vin can pull out' than it is to supposing that there's a vague possibility that Raoden has a belt. Or coin. Or crown. Almost everyone has some metal on them since it's only known to be dangerous on Scadrial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoS03 Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 I didn't see many mentions of Emotional Allomancy, but would any Soothing/Rioting even work on people whom are that invested? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turos he/him Posted May 30, 2015 Report Share Posted May 30, 2015 Depends if Elantrians are chanelling the investiture or they simply hold a key to the Dor. Ha ha! Key to the Dor. So great. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varyn he/him Posted May 31, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 I didn't see many mentions of Emotional Allomancy, but would any Soothing/Rioting even work on people whom are that invested? Ha, I hadn't even considered that. I assume it might work, but I don't think we have a WoB on that. Depends if Elantrians are chanelling the investiture or they simply hold a key to the Dor. Ha ha! Key to the Dor. So great. So many puns <3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High prince of geeks he/him Posted June 1, 2015 Report Share Posted June 1, 2015 Most elatrians have nails in there shoes. Even if Raoden is no longer wearing those with a little bit of clever use of steal she could push hrathen at Roaden near the beginning in a surprise atack near the beginning. I think the biggest deciding factor is who is in charge on each team. On team one it would probably be hrathen due to his personalities dominance and the other two being used to being issued orders in a fight. On team two I think it would be denth simply because of his experience. Since it is confirmed that vasher is a world hopper that gives team two a distinct advantage as denth is likely to be one too,and therefore have knowledge about other styles of magic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaellok he/him Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 Vin has atium, so Vin wins. If she has others on her side, they win, too, but are not necessarily critical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 Raoden would just have to figure out how to checkmate Vin if at all possible. Depends on how long his team can stall for him to run around drawing things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 Raoden would just have to figure out how to checkmate Vin if at all possible. Depends on how long his team can stall for him to run around drawing things. Checkmating an Atium-burning Mistborn is difficult enough when you're also a Mistborn and know and can keep up with all of their movements, for Raoden it would likely be near impossible unless he was willing to blow up himself and the rest of the city too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avarickan Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 (edited) So just looking through here, and I have to vote team 1 A. I'm pretty sure that the teleportation plates inside of Elantris are made of metal, and so it's possible Vin could move it (This is assuming she knows what it does.) and keep Raoden from using it. B. Is shardplate allomantically inert? if it isn't then a duralamin/steel push on Eshonai could stop her long enough for Kal of Hrathen to kill her, and I would guess that anyone not from scadrial would have metal on them, allowing Vin to kill you with all your mercenary gold, and a well placed push could even run Denth through with his own sword. I don't think he could survive that. It does come down to Raoden and Vin in the end, and so either Raoden hits her with Aon Daa or Aon Ehe. Or she uses allomancy to take him out of the fight, and if she hit him with a powerful soothing (like she did with Straff Venture) it could stun him long enough for her to either push enough coins into him to kill or incapacitate him, or lop off his head with any nearby metal. So assuming that Raoden doesn't kill off Kal and Hrathen quickly the fight would be difficult but doable. Even without them it would be possible, but more difficult, as she could use electrum to see if she will die, and of course mistborns are very good at running away. A metal plaque such as the teleportation tablet could launch her far out of Raoden's range. Also are we allowing Vin to use bendalloy? I would guess no, but if she had it then all she would need to do is drop a bubble with 50 coins outside and launch them through Denth's head, and right through Eshonai's visor taking out two members of the opposing team. Edited June 4, 2015 by Avarickan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 How does the bubble even help in that scenario? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfresa Posted June 9, 2015 Report Share Posted June 9, 2015 If team 2 can extend the fight long enough, Vin will eventually run out of metals, and Kaladin will run out of Stormlight., unless he can somehow use the Dor in its place... Can he draw investiture out of all the magical objects in Elantris? Or from objects that Denth might Awaken? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted June 9, 2015 Report Share Posted June 9, 2015 If team 2 can extend the fight long enough, Vin will eventually run out of metals, and Kaladin will run out of Stormlight., unless he can somehow use the Dor in its place... Can he draw investiture out of all the magical objects in Elantris? Or from objects that Denth might Awaken? Technically anyone can fuel any magic with any of the investiture sources. You just need the know-how and resources to jurry rig the hack. Which Kal probably doesn't have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZotarDragonSlayer he/him Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 To make it truly fair I think everyone needs to be at max power, but considering Kaladin is not, things get more complicated If everyone was at their max power (that we've seen) then Vin/Kaladin/Hrathen would win without a doubt. Vin and Kaladin both have enough mobility to stay away from anyone in team two. Vin vs Raoden: gotta give it to Vin, Raoden might be super powerful in Elantris but he can only hit what he can see, and Roaden (when you look at him) isn't really a soldier. Sure he's good, but he got beaten by his fiance in dueling, you could say the magic could make up for that but he has to draw it first to make it work. Vin vs Denth: It would go to Vin again. Denth's strength lies in his dueling abilities, so as soon as he takes a swing Vin would just push his sword away and beat the snot out of him. Vin vs Eshonai: This one I think would be a tie, I think that given Vin's track record she is known to take a couple of hit's before she's taken out her opponent, but with Eshonai she can't afford to take a hit. So that leaves us with Kaladin and Hrathen. Hrathen would lose to anyone, but (my belief) he would at least do some damage before going down. Of course, we haven't seen what his abilities can fully do yet, so it's hard to tell Kaladin would win vs Eshonai, it would be crazy close, but in the end Kaladin was able to take out a Shardbearer with a broken spear in a panic, give him a moment to evaluate and see, and I think he could win. He might lose a limb or two doing it, but he has the uncanny ability to dodge shardblades like nobodies buisness. Kaladin vs Denth: got to give it to Denth. Denth is stronger and has more experience. If this fight goes one v one for all three on each team, then I think team one would win. Vin would probably go for Denth, Kaladin for Eshonai and Hrathen for Raoden. If the fight goes like that, then team one will win. Because each member is more expierenced at one vs one fighting. However if the fight were to be team vs team with each team sticking together then it would go to team to, because Vin and Kaladin aren't exactly well known for being "team players" and they couldn't take on all of Team Two at once Conclusion Vin is a boss the whole time Hrathen dies early Kaladin loses a limb or two Eshonai get's pushed off a building and crashes to her doom Denth finds out he's an allomancer and the shock is to much for him. Allowing Vin the killing blow and Raoden reads some books. All in all, the shards would tremble if this fight were to happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowspren he/him Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 Are we taking into account that Raoden is in fact a king and has a bunch of little minions that could be distractions...?would he use them, probably not... would they be useful probably. Just a thought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 Are we taking into account that Raoden is in fact a king and has a bunch of little minions that could be distractions...?would he use them, probably not... would they be useful probably. Just a thought Well Vin is an Empress with an entire army of Atium mistings... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surgebound Rainspren he/him Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 (edited) Hrathen doesn't even need to fight. He will convert all of his enemies to severe under the Gyron and will therefore be in control of them all. Edited June 11, 2015 by Surgebound Rainspren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 Hrathen doesn't even need to fight. He will convert all of his enemies to severe under the Gyron and will therefore be in control of them all. That won't work well on Raoden. Or a Returned. Or a Listener. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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