WindrunnerRadiant he/him Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 Brought on by Arook asking about putting a Hemalurgic spike in Sazed (Harmony) and the response that you couldn't due to Hemalurgy requiring flowing blood, I came up with an interesting idea. What would happen if a Shard Holder created for themselves a flesh body (with flowing blood) and inserted a portion of their power (I doubt it could hold all of said SH's power) and a bit of their consciousness and used it as an Avatar to walk as a mortal on the surface of a Shardworld. Obviously, it would be a less-than-permanent situation. But it is an interesting thought that provides some extra possibilities for what could happen. It is the only way that I can think of for a Shard Holder to be spiked with Hemalurgy, seeing as they don't have actual bodies - or at least, not that we know from Harmony. Anyways, let me know what you think of this. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turos he/him Posted May 19, 2015 Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 That depends on whether consciousness can be divided. It would be easier, perhaps, to just endow one of your creations with all of the magic powers that branch from your shard. This make me wonder, though, what causes the magic in each system to manifest in those forms? What about allomancy is related to Ruin or Preservation? How is windrunning honorable or cultivating? Maybe the intents don't really have to align with the manifestations, and instead the purposes do somehow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted May 19, 2015 Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 Allomancy uses an external investiture supply in order to empower the user, preserving their innate investiture and causing net positive change in power. That's where the preservation logic lies. As opposed to feruchemy presumably removing innate power then reintroducing it into the system at a manipulated rate after your body had already reverted to default. (Net 0 change, balance) while hemalurgy breaks a piece of soul off something and attaches what's left to a living body with the piece breaking down all the while (net negative, Ruin). Though systems in general often seem to be unintended side effects of the shard simply being there from what I can tell. I swear there's a line in the AA or epigraphs that say Roshar theoretically should have one more system than the natives know of due to the number of shards present. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindrunnerRadiant he/him Posted May 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 I can't find the WoB on this, but I swear that there is one that says that the magic systems were in place pre-shattering. The shards themselves didn't create the magic and neither did their presence. But when the shards came to rest on each of their worlds, they did start to change it into something else, with the same basic principles but some other twists to it. The only problem is that there is not yet a book with enough information of any world pre-shattering to know exactly what those changes might be. I would guess that the intentions needed to use certain ones, such as bonding an honor spren, might have changed. The only solid example of magic changing due to the presence of a shard is on Scadrial after Sazed becomes Harmony. Instead of only full feruchemists, you also have ferrings, for example, and you also have two knew God metals. However, I don't think the change would be as drastic because Harmony is just the combination of the shards that were already on Scadrial. We also know that at some point, something happened on Roshar that made the Listeners believe that their spren abandoned them for the humans, which I believe is a twisted perception due to the effects that Honor and Odium had on the spren when they settled in the Greater Roshar system. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arook he/him Posted May 19, 2015 Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 The only solid example of magic changing due to the presence of a shard is on Scadrial after Sazed becomes Harmony. Instead of only full feruchemists, you also have ferrings, for example, and you also have two knew God metals. However, I don't think the change would be as drastic because Harmony is just the combination of the shards that were already on Scadrial. So I asked Brandon once if the change to feruchemists having ferrings instead of only making more feruchemists was just breeding or if it was something harmony did and he told me it was both so Sazed can make some changes to the system but that does not really change the system but so much as how people interact with the system. As for the magics being in place before I have only heard that the Spren existed before, not the magics which are too closely aligned with the individual shards to be pre shattering. I have always felt that the Parshendi were the original people of Roshar and that odium corrupted them because they are most susceptible to outside influence via spren 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamEternal Posted May 19, 2015 Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 (edited) The magics are actualy born from the passive interaction between shards or splinters and the world itself, so Shards have only limited control over how they manifest. Roshar is unique because it was once touched by Adonalsium, who left some of his power there. Edited May 20, 2015 by CognitivePulsePattern Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
18th Shard he/him Posted May 19, 2015 Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 The shards' intent have a massive role on the way you access the magic though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamEternal Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 (edited) Yes, but the shards have no choice about this either, it is just passive interaction. Edited May 20, 2015 by CognitivePulsePattern 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arook he/him Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 Yes, but the shards have no choice about this either, it is just passive interaction. That is not true they can but it weakens them anything not used for their intent is lost to them forever. I believe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindrunnerRadiant he/him Posted May 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 That is not true they can but it weakens them anything not used for their intent is lost to them forever. I believe I don't know that this is completely true either. Otherwise, Preservation probably should have been shattered when Vin used it to kill Ati. I'm pretty sure it is just that after being integrated with a shard for long enough, it changes you to fit its intention. Leras couldn't kill Ati despite wanting to because he had to preserve as Preservation. As for the magics being in place before I have only heard that the Spren existed before, not the magics which are too closely aligned with the individual shards to be pre shattering. I have always felt that the Parshendi were the original people of Roshar and that odium corrupted them because they are most susceptible to outside influence via spren I even made a theory about the Listeners and this idea a little while back. You can find it here if you want to take a look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arook he/him Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 I don't know that this is completely true either. Otherwise, Preservation probably should have been shattered when Vin used it to kill Ati. I'm pretty sure it is just that after being integrated with a shard for long enough, it changes you to fit its intention. Leras couldn't kill Ati despite wanting to because he had to preserve as Preservation. But the thing is she did not actively use the power to kill him. More like she used the turbulence of the 2 powers held in intense proximity each other to cause the death of the holders that is why she died too. Leras knew way more about the power than Vin did. Vin never cared what would happen to the power when she died. If no one was around if sazed was not there to pick them up the power would have broken apart and been lost. Preservation by the point he trapped ruin maybe could not bring himself to died in that fashion like Vin. Vin had not yet been bent to the shards focus when she killed Ati having only held it for minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindrunnerRadiant he/him Posted May 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 But the thing is she did not actively use the power to kill him. More like she used the turbulence of the 2 powers held in intense proximity each other to cause the death of the holders that is why she died too. Leras knew way more about the power than Vin did. Vin never cared what would happen to the power when she died. If no one was around if sazed was not there to pick them up the power would have broken apart and been lost. Preservation by the point he trapped ruin maybe could not bring himself to died in that fashion like Vin. Vin had not yet been bent to the shards focus when she killed Ati having only held it for minutes. She did actively use the power to kill Ati. She knew that what she was doing would kill Ati, she was doing it on purpose. Therefor, she actively used the power to kill Ati. Not to mention that the way it was described was like she was using it as a weapon. As for it shattering if Sazed hadn't picked them up, that is also not true. If the shard would have shattered from that, it would have shattered regardless. The only thing I know of that Brandon has said that would happen if a shard were not picked up by a holder is that it would develop sentience. And that a shard with it's own sentience would be a very, very bad thing, regardless of the shard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arook he/him Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 I She did actively use the power to kill Ati. She knew that what she was doing would kill Ati, she was doing it on purpose. Therefor, she actively used the power to kill Ati. Not to mention that the way it was described was like she was using it as a weapon. As for it shattering if Sazed hadn't picked them up, that is also not true. If the shard would have shattered from that, it would have shattered regardless. The only thing I know of that Brandon has said that would happen if a shard were not picked up by a holder is that it would develop sentience. And that a shard with it's own sentience would be a very, very bad thing, regardless of the shard. I will point out that she killed ruin to preserve the planet and the people on it. maybe Leras did not Because there was not a person like Sazed to take the shards and become harmony. I will admit is has been some time from my last reading so I will accept being wrong how how she used it. As for what happens to a unheld shard I thought that was what happened but now that you mention it I think you are right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 The whole point of causing that entire conflict was so Leras can manipulate a new holder to kill Ati, because he is consciously unable to destroy, while Ati is consciously forced to destroy. Ati was a very kind man, reportedly. Ruin is not. Sazed also is not the non-interference type of person. The distortion to their personalities is extensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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