Thoughts on Spren bonds

[Arook he/him]

So while reading other posts a thought came to me. Any entity of investiture can bond with someone. We have nightblood as an example. Bonds come in different forms and require different things. We also know that chasm fiends have a symbiotic bond with a specific spren so do chulls. At one point pattern states that void bringers have their own spren and that without humans he and his kind may not continue to exist.

 

anyways what if Rashadium are similar to chasm fiends in having a bond to a spren. They Like spren who bond with humans are granted greater intelligence as well as size. From my reread they have fur coats like normal horses they are just much larger and intimidating. 

 

So what if you could force a spren bond using a captured spren. We know little about Rashadium and nothing about their breeding. what if Rashidium have gem hearts and are made from an artificial bond by the Radiants and the Rashadium continue to pass it down the line to their offspring.

 

Not all bonds grant surges so it could be possible

 

Also what if you had to implant a gem in the body it create the artificial bond creating a gem heart that grew over time in the body and providing a place for storm light to gather and support growth. Maybe that is why chasm fiends pupate so they are exposed to a high storm and can use the energy to grow.

 

Edit: Forgot to mention Seon bonds and the unique bonds the Listeners have with spren. I wonder if the one who inistates the bond changes the way the bond works and what it grants?

Edited May 6, 2015 by Arook

[Turos he/him]

Well, from what we can see of bonding, the Knights Radiant use it to gain access to surges. This is, from what I have read, the only way other than through the weilding of an honorblade to use any surge. This magic system requires it.

 

Other magic systems aren't so much about making pacts as much as they are about following physical rules, such as how Scadrial magics require metals in order to function. Sel requires access to the Dor through patterns of some sort or another. Nalthis Awakeners come closer to Rosharian magic as a commitments is required to be spoken, or thought at higher levels of power.

 

I can agree that there is a definite bond between investiture and elements in different realms, particularly the physical realm, but I wonder if the idea of bonds seems so apparent on Roshar due to the nature of the Shards. If Honor really is one of the Shards there, then if make sense that the way investiture interfaces with the realms requires a relationship between man and an incarnation of something from another realm, or spren. The use of magic requires a sort of relationship, or even a 'conscience' that guides the Radiant to the dictates of their particular oaths.

 

In either case, you're right. There is definitely something going on with bonds, just very unique in how they manifest, dependant upon the values and purposes of the local Shard(s).

 

This makes me wonder: does the interference of a new Shard warp the way such bonds operate? E.g. Odium and the surges of the Knights.

 

EDIT:

 

And then I rereac your post and caught where you mention the Seon relationship. Why do Seons bond to people? This is very similar to spren, though I don't think a seon's bond grants direct power, only indirect use of the seon's knowledge, long distance communication, and service.

Edited May 6, 2015 by Turos Stoneward

[Citizen Grey he/him]

This is a really cool theory. Especially how Chasmfiends might use Stormlight to pupate. I'm not sure about the artificial gemheart part, even if you had a gem implanted in you (which does raise some interesting points about the stored investiture) I don't think the gem would grow or that a spren trapped in it would bond you to it in some way. 

[Arook he/him]

The thing is if a Seon and its bonded human traveled to Roshar it should change how the bond works and provide something else. That is if i understand correctly the WoB that I read. 

 

I wonder if a returned can bond. Being a similar entity to Nightblood who creates a bond so he can communicate with people. 

[Citizen Grey he/him]

Yes. But having a gem implanted in you doesn't mean that a bond of any kind will form. As for Nightblood, I'm not sure if it uses a bond to communicate but it does have a bond with Vasher since he used Nightblood unsheathed, it's why Vasher never feels sick or compelled to kill around it.

[Arook he/him]

Yes. But having a gem implanted in you doesn't mean that a bond of any kind will form.

 

 

True it is just a theory.

 

 

 As for Nightblood, I'm not sure if it uses a bond to communicate but it does have a bond with Vasher since he used Nightblood unsheathed, it's why Vasher never feels sick or compelled to kill around it.

 

I was told this when I said similar

 

Around Mar 20th, 2014, Brandon Sanderson said

Outis

If an Elantrian bonded to a Seon and traveled to Roshar, would that act as a Nahel bond?

Brandon Sanderson

It would act very very similarly, yes. But it would be like… it wouldn't necesarily do the exact same things.  It would be treated the exact same way, but wouldn't grant the same powers.

(source)

 

Quote

Another note here is that Nightblood can sense where Vasher is. This is because Nightblood has ingested and fed off Vasher’s Breaths in the past. When he does that, it connects him to someone. It’s also, by the way, one of the secrets as to why Vasher doesn’t get sick when holding Nightblood, even though he’s a good person. It’s not simply familiarity (though that is part of it). Nightblood has a built-in test. If he feeds off you and you survive, then you become somewhat immune to his powers.

(source)

 Around Oct 1st, 2013, Brandon Sanderson said

Question

How is it that Nightblood, who is merely a near-sentient awakened object, was able to read minds, something a Shard like Ruin was unable to do?

Brandon Sanderson

It requires bonding (with the person whose mind is to be read) to read minds.

(source)

 

Those were show me by Moogle.

[Moogle]

I don't think someone with a Seon going to Roshar would change the bond. I think that having a bond on Roshar can provide benefits.

[Arook he/him]

I don't think someone with a Seon going to Roshar would change the bond. I think that having a bond on Roshar can provide benefits.

 

How is that different?

[natc]

Because just because the bond does something extra in a different environment doesn't mean the bond itself is any different from before.

[Arook he/him]

But the bond is not the same maybe not greater or lesser not its not the same as before. think of it as a small change in the color of something. Still blue but not true blue.

[Moogle]

How is that different?

 

I'd like to echo natc's response as basically being what I was going to say.

 

But the bond is not the same maybe not greater or lesser not its not the same as before. think of it as a small change in the color of something. Still blue but not true blue.

 

How do you know the bond is not the same? Imagine you've got an invisible machine detecting all the bonds on Roshar and then shooting special Investiture beams at the people with special bonds. In this case, nothing should change about the bonds, but you'd gain benefits for having the bonds.

 

(My personal favored explanation for the phenomenon of bonds giving effects on Roshar is that bonds are the equivalent of metals on Scadrial or geographical locations on Sel. Each flavor of bond filters the ambient Investiture of Roshar in some fashion into an effect on you.)

[Arook he/him]

Ok so would you say not that it changes but that roshar pushes out power to bonds and each bond works as a unique filter granting something different based on the bond maybe using categories like spren type and originator of bond?

Also on a different note I wonder if vasher instead of needing to absorb storm light is simply able to exist because he is there with all the extra investiture On account of him being a spontaneous intelligent entity made of investiture in a host body. Becuase wouldn't he die during the weeping

[Moogle]

I'd theorize that's how Roshar treats bonds. Something about the type of bond (and I think it would have to be a bond to something with a decent chunk of Investiture) should act to filter Investiture from... somewhere.

 

I'd further speculate that the reason it does this is due to Honor. Honor seems to be about forming bonds between people and keeping them together, as the Bondsmith spren being the Cognitive Shadow of Honor would seem to imply. But there doesn't seem to be a reason metals are related to the Shards of Scadrial, so I don't think this is too likely.

 

As to Vasher, I think he has to actually take in Stormlight. He could survive through the Weeping by taking it in from a large enough gemstone. (The larger the gemstone, the slower it grows dun.) I'm not 100% sure. The only WoB that comes to mind is that Vasher has not yet learned to use the Stormlight he takes in to Awaken.

[Turos he/him]

Maybe he just pops into Shadesmar during the Weeping and vacations somewhere else where he can find investiture.

[Arook he/him]

I suppose he may be able to perfectly hold stormlight unlike humans

[natc]

On the Seon bond thing, in Reckoner fashion I'll attempt a weird metaphor. So this bond I have is a really sweet sports care. Unfortunately I live floating in space, so it's useless due to the lack of a floor. Sparks man, what a piece of junk.

Then I show up to Roshar. Suddenly the car is much more useful. Horses envy me, I feel like I found a potato in a minefield and scored myself a date. But nothing changed about the car.

Or a Kryptonian on Krypton as opposed to one on Earth. I don't really read comics but IIRC Superman doesn't spontaneously change. It's the Sun that changed on him, and his preexisting genetics did what they were supposed to. Which under a red giant was essentially nothing, as opposed to the yellow sort of sun where he is pretty overpowered by human standards.

There is something about Roshar that seems to cause bonds to splinters to manifest some form of a magic system, and it might do so indiscriminately to any such bond no matter the form.

As for Vasher though, maybe looking into his trick to suppressing divine breath might be related too? He'd need a pretty big gemstone otherwise. How long is a Nalthian week actually?

Edited May 8, 2015 by natc

[Arook he/him]

David would be proud