Question 10

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her]

What Happened in The Dalles, post 257. "In Which Arsenal Explodes, Deathwish Swears, and We Learn That Thinking Dirty Thoughts Only Encourages Dirt-Manipulating Epics to Throw Things At You."

I hope Vondra is prepared for quite a bit of shouting and pacing when Autumn files her report. And to have Arsenal think deeply about the question "What would YOU do if an Epic who could explode your head wanted to kiss you, huh? WHAT WOULD YOU DO, MISTER ARSENAL?"

[Kobold King he/him]

I hope Vondra is prepared for quite a bit of shouting and pacing when Autumn files her report. And to have Arsenal think deeply about the question "What would YOU do if an Epic who could explode your head wanted to kiss you, huh? WHAT WOULD YOU DO, MISTER ARSENAL?"

 

To play Devil's Arsenal's advocate, Autumn could get away with playing a little more hard-to-get than she has so far. I mean, a kiss on the cheek could probably have taken the place of a kiss on the lips.

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her]

To play Devil's Arsenal's advocate, Autumn could get away with playing a little more hard-to-get than she has so far. I mean, a kiss on the cheek could probably have taken the place of a kiss on the lips.

It probably almost certainly would've ended the same way.

[Kobold King he/him]

It probably almost certainly would've ended the same way.

 

True. Though there's still a case to be made that Autumn should be expected to be a little more assertive with Epics that invade the city. I mean, if Lieutenant Mitchins is expected to threaten newcomer Epics at gunpoint, Autumn telling an Epic that there's a time and a place for intimacy isn't particularly uncalled for. In a city like The Dalles, giving an Epic the first impression of a city filled with weak vanillas who won't stand up for themselves is potentially dangerous.

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her]

True. Though there's still a case to be made that Autumn should be expected to be a little more assertive with Epics that invade the city. I mean, if Lieutenant Mitchins is expected to threaten newcomer Epics at gunpoint, Autumn telling an Epic that there's a time and a place for intimacy isn't particularly uncalled for. In a city like The Dalles, giving an Epic the first impression of a city filled with weak vanillas who won't stand up for themselves is potentially dangerous.

Very true. The argument could also be made that Autumn was not only caught off guard, but overpowered by an Epic whose only known intent was flirting, and who could have easily been concealing another power, while most of the city's forces were dedicated to confronting various threats and a full-fledged invasion.

[Kobold King he/him]

Very true. The argument could also be made that Autumn was not only caught off guard, but overpowered by an Epic whose only known intent was flirting, and who could have easily been concealing another power, while most of the city's forces were dedicated to confronting various threats and a full-fledged invasion.

 

The main issue is that The Dalles values strength of will against Epics, and Autumn, through no fault of her own, has proven herself to be not fully capable of asserting herself. She allowed a new Epic to intimidate and pressure her into breaching security, and also allowed herself to be groped and fondled without resistance. 

 

Again, I'm not necessarily criticizing her, but in The Dalles her failure to assert herself, even when in the city's stronghold in front of a powerful City-aligned Epic, is not going to look well on her report. Vondra won't blame her, but he will make sure that she's not permitted to screen any new Epics without a powerful City Guard Epic watching over her shoulder to make sure she doesn't allow herself to be intimidated.

Edited May 3, 2015 by Kobold King

[Edgedancer he/him]

I hope Vondra is prepared for quite a bit of shouting and pacing when Autumn files her report. And to have Arsenal think deeply about the question "What would YOU do if an Epic who could explode your head wanted to kiss you, huh? WHAT WOULD YOU DO, MISTER ARSENAL?"

For some reason I just thought about the Simpson opening and instead of Bart it is Autumn writting: "I'm not supposed to make Arsenal's head explode per make-out sesion."

(Also I'm pretty sure Arsenal would explode his own head before flirting wirh Shiny Sparkle or anything remotely similar.)

 

What Happened in The Dalles, post 257. "In Which Arsenal Explodes, Deathwish Swears, and We Learn That Thinking Dirty Thoughts Only Encourages Dirt-Manipulating Epics to Throw Things At You."

And yet there still isn't a guide to show her who to explode.

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her]

The main issue is that The Dalles values strength of will against Epics, and Autumn, through no fault of her own, has proven herself to be not fully capable of asserting herself. She allowed a new Epic to intimidate and pressure her into breaching security, and also allowed herself to be groped and fondled without resistance. 

 

Again, I'm not necessarily criticizing her, but in The Dalles her failure to assert herself, even when in the city's stronghold in front of a powerful City-aligned Epic, is not going to look well on her report. Vondra won't blame her, but he will make sure that she's not permitted to screen any new Epics without a powerful City Guard Epic watching over her shoulder to make sure she doesn't allow herself to be intimidated.

 

Probably wise, so long as that Epic isn't Deathwish. (On that note, though, what about Reader? Not only did his guards allow him to get captured, but he brought not only one, but three unscreened Epics into the city limits, one of whom clearly physically intimidated him by breaking his nose. Once inside the city limits, Reader diverted his attention from said Epics, even allowing one of them to leave the premises, the only saving grace in that being that Edgerunner caught up with him, and began to screen not the other two Epics, but a harmless vanilla. His motive in that was not the safety of the city, but stroking his own bruised ego by airing said vanilla's secrets, treating the Taylor-Swift-perhaps-rampaging-through-the-city thing as an afterthought. At least Autumn stayed with Shiny and managed to get a few things done.) 

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her]

Well, we all know Reader is a slontze.

 

True, but that doesn't excuse his behavior. Autumn screwed up, but she shouldn't be treated as the only guilty party here.

[Edgedancer he/him]

Probably wise, so long as that Epic isn't Deathwish. (On that note, though, what about Reader? Not only did his guards allow him to get captured, but he brought not only one, but three unscreened Epics into the city limits, one of whom clearly physically intimidated him by breaking his nose. Once inside the city limits, Reader diverted his attention from said Epics, even allowing one of them to leave the premises, the only saving grace in that being that Edgerunner caught up with him, and began to screen not the other two Epics, but a harmless vanilla. His motive in that was not the safety of the city, but stroking his own bruised ego by airing said vanilla's secrets, treating the Taylor-Swift-perhaps-rampaging-through-the-city thing as an afterthought. At least Autumn stayed with Shiny and managed to get a few things done.) 

While I'm sure she's going to apply to the job, Shiny Sparkle also wouldn't be a good choice, too... distracting.

Three? I can remember Frostfire and Ozymandias and the later is rather nonexsistant now. Then there's Elsa but she tagged along with Scribbler and co. Then again, I don't think anyone expects Reader to behave well.

(Notice the classic diversion and blame shifting strategy. )

 

With Arsenal not pointing out a guard to escort SS, who's going next?

[Kobold King he/him]

Probably wise, so long as that Epic isn't Deathwish. (On that note, though, what about Reader? Not only did his guards allow him to get captured, but he brought not only one, but three unscreened Epics into the city limits, one of whom clearly physically intimidated him by breaking his nose. Once inside the city limits, Reader diverted his attention from said Epics, even allowing one of them to leave the premises, the only saving grace in that being that Edgerunner caught up with him, and began to screen not the other two Epics, but a harmless vanilla. His motive in that was not the safety of the city, but stroking his own bruised ego by airing said vanilla's secrets, treating the Taylor-Swift-perhaps-rampaging-through-the-city thing as an afterthought. At least Autumn stayed with Shiny and managed to get a few things done.) 

 

Reader will definitely be disciplined for his actions.

 

And unfortunately, that Epic will probably be Deathwish. He's the only High Epic in their service, and the only Epic who's certain to be able to get Autumn to safety quickly if things go south. Shiny will definitely not be allowed to work closely with Autumn for at least a few weeks after this incident.

 

 

Another point I'd like to bring up... and I'm so, so sorry to keep coming back to this... but even with all her griping and obvious fears, Autumn is coming across on paper as enjoying the attention, and will come across that way even more so on an in-universe report. She scolds Frostfire, a powerful and unsubdued Epic with no known limitations, telling him to repair the damage he's done or she'll personally make sure that he's run out of town. She risked her life to assert herself in front of an Epic, when that Epic's only crime was to humiliate Reader.

 

But in that same scene, she continued to allow Shiny Sparkle to walk all over her, even though a sympathetic statement to Shiny that she has no intention of dating her would actually have been safer than the stunt she pulled with Frostfire. She is crisp, professional, and assertive against most Epic invaders, but won't even refuse to make out with Shiny when she's not even being directly intimidated.

 

I just think Autumn's been a little inconsistent on that front, sorry. :/ Don't take this the wrong way, because I do really love her character and the PoVs you write with her... but she's not consistent in what she's willing to stand up for right now, and the implication people like Arsenal could understandably draw is that she doesn't want to terminate things with Shiny just yet. That she's enjoying her day out on the town and doesn't want to cut it short.

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her]

Reader will definitely be disciplined for his actions.

 

And unfortunately, that Epic will probably be Deathwish. He's the only High Epic in their service, and the only Epic who's certain to be able to get Autumn to safety quickly if things go south. Shiny will definitely not be allowed to work closely with Autumn for at least a few weeks after this incident.

 

 

Another point I'd like to bring up... and I'm so, so sorry to keep coming back to this... but even with all her griping and obvious fears, Autumn is coming across on paper as enjoying the attention, and will come across that way even more so on an in-universe report. She scolds Frostfire, a powerful and unsubdued Epic with no known limitations, telling him to repair the damage he's done or she'll personally make sure that he's run out of town. She risked her life to assert herself in front of an Epic, when that Epic's only crime was to humiliate Reader.

 

But in that same scene, she continued to allow Shiny Sparkle to walk all over her, even though a sympathetic statement to Shiny that she has no intention of dating her would actually have been safer than the stunt she pulled with Frostfire. She is crisp, professional, and assertive against most Epic invaders, but won't even refuse to make out with Shiny when she's not even being directly intimidated.

 

I just think Autumn's been a little inconsistent on that front, sorry. :/ Don't take this the wrong way, because I do really love her character and the PoVs you write with her... but she's not consistent in what she's willing to stand up for right now, and the implication people like Arsenal could understandably draw is that she doesn't want to terminate things with Shiny just yet. That she's enjoying her day out on the town and doesn't want to cut it short.

 

Honestly: I hadn't considered that interpretation, because that's not how I meant to write her at all.  

 

The way I'd seen it was that she hasn't been in her position too terribly long. A year and a half, or thereabouts, during which The Dalles has gone from being a recovering war zone to a town under siege every few weeks to a stable and benevolent, if very strict, autocracy. Most of the threats she's received on the job have been direct threats to her life, which it's possible to get used to—even come to expect. Kind of like how when I worked retail, I came to expect people being out-and-out rude to me. People would slam their purchases down on the counter and yell at me (in English or Spanish, depending on the customer) about how it wasn't the price that was advertised, they had a coupon, why wasn't their coupon working, they wanted to speak to my manager, etc., etc. You come to expect that treatment, and you learn methods for deflecting and dealing with it. 

 

Then a little old lady comes along. She smiles at you, laughs at the corny joke you're required to make, and doesn't make the "Oh, if there's no price tag, it must be free!" joke. Already she's more friendly than the average customer. You think you like her. You're so busy listening to her talk about her grandkids that you don't look at the back of her credit card; you just swipe it and hand it back. 

 

She takes her card and smiles at you, and you return it—right as she holds up the back of her card to you. "Can you tell me what it says here?" she asks with a smile that looks sticky now. 

 

To your horror, you see it: SEE ID. You read it off the back of her card, aloud. 

 

"Yes." She draws out the word, drenching it in false cheer. "See ID. You were supposed to check my ID before swiping my card." 

 

"I'm sorry, ma'am," you say, but it's too late. She's already launched into a lecture about identity theft and how you could've been complicit in some jerk stealing her life's savings and taking them on a trip to Vegas where he spends the money for her grandkids' birthdays on sin and whores. She doesn't ask to see your manager—thank goodness—but she does threaten it if you make the same mistake again. 

 

That's how I saw Autumn's jaunt with Shiny Sparkle. She's grown used to handling direct death threats. She knows how to navigate those. Even Deathwish's sleazy flirting is something she knows how to handle—most women learn how to brush that sort of thing off by their late teens. But an Epic who sneaks up behind you and says "I want to cuddle!" while offering to help with the invasion? That's the sort of thing that catches you off guard in the worst way. It's also the sort of thing that stresses you out, which is how I intended her outburst in the clinic—that was her snapping, not trying to divert the attention to herself. 

 

I can see how you'd get your interpretation, but it's not how I meant it to come across. 

[Kobold King he/him]

Ah. Sorry. Didn't mean to upset you or anything.

 

 

I was just saying... well, I just thought there was more to her actions than "She could blow up my head," because she's shown bravery in the face of other Epics. If it's merely a result of her being caught off guard, then I'd expect her to regain her footing and meet Shiny with a more solemn, non-yielding approach after they've been separated for a bit.

...

Not that I'm trying to tell you how to write your characters or anything, if that's how I'm coming across.

 

Again. Sorry.

[Edgedancer he/him]

Reader will definitely be disciplined for his actions.

 

And unfortunately, that Epic will probably be Deathwish. He's the only High Epic in their service, and the only Epic who's certain to be able to get Autumn to safety quickly if things go south. Shiny will definitely not be allowed to work closely with Autumn for at least a few weeks after this incident.

 

 

Another point I'd like to bring up... and I'm so, so sorry to keep coming back to this... but even with all her griping and obvious fears, Autumn is coming across on paper as enjoying the attention, and will come across that way even more so on an in-universe report. She scolds Frostfire, a powerful and unsubdued Epic with no known limitations, telling him to repair the damage he's done or she'll personally make sure that he's run out of town. She risked her life to assert herself in front of an Epic, when that Epic's only crime was to humiliate Reader.

 

But in that same scene, she continued to allow Shiny Sparkle to walk all over her, even though a sympathetic statement to Shiny that she has no intention of dating her would actually have been safer than the stunt she pulled with Frostfire. She is crisp, professional, and assertive against most Epic invaders, but won't even refuse to make out with Shiny when she's not even being directly intimidated.

 

I just think Autumn's been a little inconsistent on that front, sorry. :/ Don't take this the wrong way, because I do really love her character and the PoVs you write with her... but she's not consistent in what she's willing to stand up for right now, and the implication people like Arsenal could understandably draw is that she doesn't want to terminate things with Shiny just yet. That she's enjoying her day out on the town and doesn't want to cut it short.

No one is getting out of this clean, are they?

 

Meaning that for the forseable future the first impression of town people would get is Deathwish, maybe it getting destroyed isn't that bad.

 

Putting distance between the two makes sense, her first impression isn't a good one at all, but how exactly would they deal with Shiny Sparkle and how much would they listen to her "version" of the story?

Also again, who's going next?

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her]

Ah. Sorry. Didn't mean to upset you or anything.

I was just saying... well, I just thought there was more to her actions than "She could blow up my head," because she's shown bravery in the face of other Epics. If it's merely a result of her being caught off guard, then I'd expect her to regain her footing and meet Shiny with a more solemn, non-yielding approach after they've been separated for a bit.

...

Not that I'm trying to tell you how to write your characters or anything, if that's how I'm coming across.

Again. Sorry.

No need to apologize. This free and open dialogue about characters and events is part of what I love about this game. I wasn't upset; more just surprised.

She'll definitely appreciate the distance, and she'll be doing more than a bit of self....what's the right term here? Accusing? Chastising? She'll criticize herself quite a bit, once the surprise wears off, and perhaps even offer to step down from her position.

[Kobold King he/him]

Putting distance between the two makes sense, her first impression isn't a good one at all, but how exactly would they deal with Shiny Sparkle and how much would they listen to her "version" of the story?

Also again, who's going next?

 

If hers and Autumn's stories conflict in the slightest, they'll go with Autumn's. Vondra isn't inclined to trust Epics, especially not Epics who came into town acting like they owned the place.

 

I don't want to write another full Arsenal post just for ordering a guard to go with her. I'd be happy if you wrote the next post, just adding Arsenal ordering "Simons, accompany Ms. Sparkle to the site."

 

 

No need to apologize. This free and open dialogue about characters and events is part of what I love about this game. I wasn't upset; more just surprised.

She'll definitely appreciate the distance, and she'll be doing more than a bit of self....what's the right term here? Accusing? Chastising? She'll criticize herself quite a bit, once the surprise wears off, and perhaps even offer to step down from her position.

 

Cool. Your response was long and rant-y enough that I thought I might have opened a can of worms there. But I'm glad all's still well.

 

That makes sense. I guess I was just... surprised and a little bit unsettled that she actually went through with making out with Shiny. I've been waiting for her to finally assert herself for pages now, and I never thought she'd actually go this far with letting Shiny molest her.

 

Anyway, this is shaping up to be a very interesting scene on many levels.

[Voidus]

Who's going next in Corvallis? I'd do a Cornucopia post but it'd just be her listening to everyone else really.
In other news after 24 straight hours of downloading my new laptop has now loaded 3% of my steam library.

[Edgedancer he/him]

If hers and Autumn's stories conflict in the slightest, they'll go with Autumn's. Vondra isn't inclined to trust Epics, especially not Epics who came into town acting like they owned the place.

 

I don't want to write another full Arsenal post just for ordering a guard to go with her. I'd be happy if you wrote the next post, just adding Arsenal ordering "Simons, accompany Ms. Sparkle to the site."

 

Anyway, this is shaping up to be a very interesting scene on many levels.

I meant that more in the "I thought she was okay with it" way than her mixing up events.

 

I'll see if I can work through my cold then. Which raises the question of how she's going to join the fight. How does an explosion right in the middle of Frequency's gang sound?

 

Interesting certainly is one way to call it.

Who's going next in Corvallis? I'd do a Cornucopia post but it'd just be her listening to everyone else really.

In other news after 24 straight hours of downloading my new laptop has now loaded 3% of my steam library.

Really? I tend to only have a fraction of my Steam library on my computer at any given time.

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her]

If hers and Autumn's stories conflict in the slightest, they'll go with Autumn's. Vondra isn't inclined to trust Epics, especially not Epics who came into town acting like they owned the place.

 

I don't want to write another full Arsenal post just for ordering a guard to go with her. I'd be happy if you wrote the next post, just adding Arsenal ordering "Simons, accompany Ms. Sparkle to the site."

 

 

 

Cool. Your response was long and rant-y enough that I thought I might have opened a can of worms there. But I'm glad all's still well.

 

That makes sense. I guess I was just... surprised and a little bit unsettled that she actually went through with making out with Shiny. I've been waiting for her to finally assert herself for pages now, and I never thought she'd actually go this far with letting Shiny molest her.

 

Anyway, this is shaping up to be a very interesting scene on many levels.

 

Sorry. I didn't mean for it to come across as ranty. (I think this is why I like emoticons so much. ) 

 

And I didn't mean to make it sound like she wanted to make out with her. Just give her a quick kiss to placate her—but, like with the rest of this sequence, Shiny took it further than intended. The whole thing struck Autumn as a delicate balance sort of situation, which combined with the surprise of it all, didn't end very well. 

 

….there's still time for me to edit her last post, if you'd rather, though.  

[Edgedancer he/him]

Sorry. I didn't mean for it to come across as ranty. (I think this is why I like emoticons so much. ) 

 

And I didn't mean to make it sound like she wanted to make out with her. Just give her a quick kiss to placate her—but, like with the rest of this sequence, Shiny took it further than intended. The whole thing struck Autumn as a delicate balance sort of situation, which combined with the surprise of it all, didn't end very well. 

 

….there's still time for me to edit her last post, if you'd rather, though.

Talking about her taking it too far, how exactly is Autumn reacting right now, did she just stiffen up?

Edited May 3, 2015 by Edgedancer

[Kobold King he/him]

I meant that more in the "I thought she was okay with it" way than her mixing up events.

 

I'll see if I can work through my cold then. Which raises the question of how she's going to join the fight. How does an explosion right in the middle of Frequency's gang sound?

 

I can understand her point of view, but Vondra won't. She won't be disciplined, but Vondra will suspect her of lying her way through her reports and will keep her on a tight leash until she proves she's trustworthy.

 

You'll have to ask Mailliw about that. Maybe PM him, in case he doesn't see your proposal?

 

 

Sorry. I didn't mean for it to come across as ranty. (I think this is why I like emoticons so much. ) 

 

And I didn't mean to make it sound like she wanted to make out with her. Just give her a quick kiss to placate her—but, like with the rest of this sequence, Shiny took it further than intended. The whole thing struck Autumn as a delicate balance sort of situation, which combined with the surprise of it all, didn't end very well. 

 

….there's still time for me to edit her last post, if you'd rather, though.

 

Emoticons are the best.                                       

 

My main quibble--and it's not a hugely important quibble--is that there's been very little indication of Autumn objecting to this treatment on grounds of disapproval. I mean, most women with any self-worth at all would be seething at being groped, fondled, and forced to make out with another woman against their will, but such feelings on Autumn's part have been left faintly implied rather than shown. She hasn't shown signs of being particularly upset. If her next few posts made it clear that she does in fact object to this treatment, and that she is in fact unhappy with Shiny's behavior, it would do wonders to dispel the worries of readers such as myself.

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her]

I can understand her point of view, but Vondra won't. She won't be disciplined, but Vondra will suspect her of lying her way through her reports and will keep her on a tight leash until she proves she's trustworthy.

 

You'll have to ask Mailliw about that. Maybe PM him, in case he doesn't see your proposal?

 

 

 

Emoticons are the best.                                       

 

My main quibble--and it's not a hugely important quibble--is that there's been very little indication of Autumn objecting to this treatment on grounds of disapproval. I mean, most women with any self-worth at all would be seething at being groped, fondled, and forced to make out with another woman against their will, but such feelings on Autumn's part have been left faintly implied rather than shown. She hasn't shown signs of being particularly upset. If her next few posts made it clear that she does in fact object to this treatment, and that she is in fact unhappy with Shiny's behavior, it would do wonders to dispel the worries of readers such as myself.

 

Aren't they, though?                       

 

Noted. I'd been going off the idea that she's just sort of going along with it out of fear, but….

 

Talking about her taking it too far, how exactly is Autumn reacting right now, did she just stiffen up?

 

Yes. 

[Edgedancer he/him]

I can understand her point of view, but Vondra won't. She won't be disciplined, but Vondra will suspect her of lying her way through her reports and will keep her on a tight leash until she proves she's trustworthy.

 

You'll have to ask Mailliw about that. Maybe PM him, in case he doesn't see your proposal?

Can't blame him on that part. Probably would be best, if he doesn't expect a very formal report, though.

 

Probably better. I think I'll just open up a pm group.

 

Yes. 

Duly noted.

[Kobold King he/him]

Aren't they, though?                       

 

Noted. I'd been going off the idea that she's just sort of going along with it out of fear, but….

 

 

Yes. 

 

And then of course, there are the unofficial pony emotes. 

 

Fear definitely explains her actions--or at least, mostly explains her actions--but she's a victim of ongoing molestation and I think a few thoughts showing that she views herself as such would do a lot of good.

 

Probably better. I think I'll just open up a pm group.

 

Actually there's already a PM group for the fight. Let me check to make sure no weaknesses are mentioned and then I'll invite you.

 

EDIT: Sorry, Freq's weakness was revealed in the PM. I'll have to get Mailliw's permission before inviting you.

Edited May 3, 2015 by Kobold King

[Edgedancer he/him]

Actually there's already a PM group for the fight. Let me check to make sure no weaknesses are mentioned and then I'll invite you.

 

EDIT: Sorry, Freq's weakness was revealed in the PM. I'll have to get Mailliw's permission before inviting you.

Too late.