ninch he/him Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 SPOILERS So here’s why I think Hoid was interfering in book. I believe the Ambassador Shai bumped into was a Derethi priest, a gyorn no less; by the way he was described and was working with the Glory Faction to help them get one of their own as the emperor. I think the assassins’ were from Rathbore monastery but that’s even more conjecture than the earlier parts. Well that’s my first post and here’s the quote. @page 143 in the paper back “She almost bowled over a Sothern ambassador in red priest’s armor.” 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurkistan he/him Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 (edited) SPOILERS So here’s why I think Hoid was interfering in book. I believe the Ambassador Shai bumped into was a Derethi priest, a gyorn no less; by the way he was described and was working with the Glory Faction to help them get one of their own as the emperor. I think the assassins’ were from Rathbore monastery but that’s even more conjecture than the earlier parts. Well that’s my first post and here’s the quote. @page 143 in the paper back “She almost bowled over a Sothern ambassador in red priest’s armor.” I saw no indication whatsoever that the Gyorn was working with the Glory Faction. His inclusion seems more of an easter egg than anything else. P.S. Welcome to the forums, btw! Edited October 16, 2012 by Kurkistan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninch he/him Posted October 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 Yeah I know its a stretch and while I thinks it's a Gyorn there's no proof of that either. It just doesn't sit right with me that a Gyorn would be there and not be up to something. He might be up to something completely unrelated to the story. Just struck me as important if it is indeed a Gyorn. Thanks for the welcome and reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos he/him Posted October 17, 2012 Report Share Posted October 17, 2012 He's actually the Imperial Fool mentioned in the book. He's the one who got Shai imprisoned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninch he/him Posted October 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2012 Maybe i don't understand but I thought Hoid(as the imperial fool) got Shai imprisoned. What I was saying in the opening post was maybe Hoid was there to stop Derethi plots but that's most likely nothing or just extra. I might not understand what you're saying though Chaos, it reads to me that you're saying the Derethi priest is the imperial fool and if that's what you're saying I never caught that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yados Posted October 17, 2012 Report Share Posted October 17, 2012 Maybe Hoid needed the moon scepter because it's actually *made* of part of the moon. Is the moon Odium's body? Wouldn't one of the inherent problems with world-hopping through Shadesmar be that you wouldn't be able to go somewhere where there weren't living, thinking things. Like, say, the Moon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windrunner he/him Posted October 17, 2012 Report Share Posted October 17, 2012 I don't think that would be a problem. Everything in existence has a Cognitive aspect, from the goblet that Shallan spoke with to Sel's moon. The problem is that we aren't sure exactly how Shadesmar is structured. I doubt its arranged in the same way that the Physical Realm is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent he/him Posted October 19, 2012 Report Share Posted October 19, 2012 I think we can all agree that Hoid was the Imperial Fool - we've already seen him play the role of a fool (as the King's Wit), and this particular Fool was remarkably intelligent, all things considered. Fooling a very skilled Forger into believing him? Yea, that takes skill. On a slightly related note, do we know when the events Emperor's Soul take place in the context of Brandon's other books? Regarding his motifs for stealing the Moon Scepter, it could be something as (in my opinion) far-fetched as it having a connection to Odium (or even one of Sel's "native" Shards), but I think that's pushing it a little. I am a little behind on the most recent Cosmere theories, but I can't think of any evidence to support this hypothesis. In my opinion Hoid's goal there was to get Shai imprisoned. We can kind of infer that he is an excellent judge of character and human behavior, so assuming that he knew about the emperor's... condition... he may have been able to deduce that the Arbiters will compromise and ask a skilled Forger, if one just happened to be around, to help them with this problem. So what Hoid did was to create the right circumstances that would allow for the emperor to (have a chance to) be restored and lead the empire in a good / better direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninch he/him Posted October 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2012 (edited) i think I read Chaos say it was somewhere around 30 years after Elantris. (Edit: Windrunner said around 30 years after and Chaos Agreed.) Edited October 20, 2012 by ninch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windrunner he/him Posted October 20, 2012 Report Share Posted October 20, 2012 We don't know exactly when it was ninch. If you saw it in the TES theories topic it was Chaos agreeing with my rough estimate of ~30 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninch he/him Posted October 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2012 Yeah I rewrote my reply and forgot to add that no one really knew. I though I read 10 years after when the book was first announced but I can't find it so I must be thinking of something else, maybe Elantris 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos he/him Posted October 20, 2012 Report Share Posted October 20, 2012 Maybe i don't understand but I thought Hoid(as the imperial fool) got Shai imprisoned. What I was saying in the opening post was maybe Hoid was there to stop Derethi plots but that's most likely nothing or just extra. I might not understand what you're saying though Chaos, it reads to me that you're saying the Derethi priest is the imperial fool and if that's what you're saying I never caught that. I meant Hoid, sorry, not the Derethi priest. The Derethi priest is just another cameo showing us that this is Sel, and everything is connected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaeMofo Posted November 7, 2012 Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 oh thank god, I was worried when I got to the end that hoid wasnt in it. I am much relieved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scattered she/her Posted November 27, 2012 Report Share Posted November 27, 2012 In my opinion Hoid's goal there was to get Shai imprisoned. We can kind of infer that he is an excellent judge of character and human behavior, so assuming that he knew about the emperor's... condition... he may have been able to deduce that the Arbiters will compromise and ask a skilled Forger, if one just happened to be around, to help them with this problem. So what Hoid did was to create the right circumstances that would allow for the emperor to (have a chance to) be restored and lead the empire in a good / better direction. This was my thought while reading the book also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millennium Posted November 30, 2012 Report Share Posted November 30, 2012 I got the sense that Hoid didn't steal the Moon Scepter, but the copy. He might have other reasons for taking the Moon Scepter, but he also seems interested in collecting artifacts of the various worlds' magics. Given that interest, the copy might actually suit his purpose better than the original, especially if its rewritten Spiritweb allows it to retain whatever properties might made the original interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurkistan he/him Posted November 30, 2012 Report Share Posted November 30, 2012 (edited) I got the sense that Hoid didn't steal the Moon Scepter, but the copy. He might have other reasons for taking the Moon Scepter, but he also seems interested in collecting artifacts of the various worlds' magics. Given that interest, the copy might actually suit his purpose better than the original, especially if its rewritten Spiritweb allows it to retain whatever properties might made the original interesting. I doubt he stole the copy. If he just wanted a good Forgery, he could have gone to any number of legitimate Forgers or just asked Shai to Forge something for him directly. Also, and more importantly, Shai thinks to herself that most proper forgeries (as in the deceptive kind) have to be done without Forging if they're going to pass muster, since the soulstamp always has to go somewhere. The Arbiters knew Shai was a Forger and that she was trying to steal the Moon Scepter, and tell her that she failed to replace it, causing Shai to assume that they'd been fooled by the skill of her forgery. If there had been a soulstamp on Shai's intended replacement, then she would not have been so confident of it passing muster. I suppose she could have been mistaken in thinking that Hoid replaced the original Moon Scepter, and that Shai's intended replacement could have been a Forgery, but I think she would have thought of it when she considered the "paradox of Forging" in that the stamp is always visible, something along the lines of "for the Moon Scepter, she'd hidden the stamp ________". Edited November 30, 2012 by Kurkistan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aethling he/him Posted December 2, 2012 Report Share Posted December 2, 2012 In the podcast devoted to TES, Sanderson explicitly states that the Fool was Hoid. He even had an interaction between the two that he cut out to replace with something more in line with the story he was wanting to tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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