Windrunner he/him Posted October 10, 2012 Posted October 10, 2012 Only because we don't have any way to detect them. Allomancers don't give off any audible sounds, I doubt that Elantrians would either. Elantris implies that AonDor has similar waves, so I disagree with you here. Brandon flat out says that Scadrial's investitures don't require as much energy as Roshar's and Sel's. I don't see what's left to argue about.
Observer Posted October 10, 2012 Posted October 10, 2012 I cant help but feel there's more to Dahkor than we've seen. Elantrian and forging magics are both very versitile. Don't forget, monks aren't set to "read only mode" like allomancers. They can be edited depending on the situation. That can be very useful in a lot of ways.
Thought Posted October 10, 2012 Posted October 10, 2012 (edited) Only because we don't have any way to detect them. Allomancers don't give off any audible sounds, I doubt that Elantrians would either. Elantris implies that AonDor has similar waves, so I disagree with you here. Brandon flat out says that Scadrial's investitures don't require as much energy as Roshar's and Sel's. I don't see what's left to argue about. You aren't so much disagreeing as missing the joke: in Dragon Ball Z, powerful characters glow and send out pulses of energy. Your argument essentially mirrored the former, so to attempt to illustrate the oddity of that suggestion, I put forth the latter. As for the hazy second-hand account of Sanderson's words, high investiture doesn't necessitate stronger outcomes. We have a primary source that strongly indicates Allomancy wins in a shoving match, and a secondary source that suggests that Elantrins are dealing with a lot of investiture, and that investiture is hard to handle. Neither statement directly contradicts the other. I agree, there isn't really anything left to argue about. Edited October 10, 2012 by Thought
dj26792 he/him Posted October 10, 2012 Posted October 10, 2012 All we really need to argue about now is whether or not a single dura-pewter punch would kill a shardbearer cause I havent seen that discussion yet.
name_here Posted October 11, 2012 Posted October 11, 2012 I expect it would have decent odds of shattering the chestplate, thus essentially immoblizing the Shardbearer.
Observer Posted October 11, 2012 Posted October 11, 2012 Shardplate gives you the effect of pewter burning, and it didn't take long for Dalinar's fist to bust up Elhokar, so I'm guessing it would.
Windrunner he/him Posted October 11, 2012 Posted October 11, 2012 You aren't so much disagreeing as missing the joke: in Dragon Ball Z, powerful characters glow and send out pulses of energy. Your argument essentially mirrored the former, so to attempt to illustrate the oddity of that suggestion, I put forth the latter. I have never had any desire to see Dragon Ball Z, and nothing in your post seemed to indicate that you were joking, so it's not really surprising that I didn't get it. As for the hazy second-hand account of Sanderson's words, high investiture doesn't necessitate stronger outcomes. We have a primary source that strongly indicates Allomancy wins in a shoving match, and a secondary source that suggests that Elantrins are dealing with a lot of investiture, and that investiture is hard to handle. Neither statement directly contradicts the other. I agree, there isn't really anything left to argue about. Well considering that you've just said the opposite of what I was trying to say, I guess there's still something left to discuss. I'm going to quote the portion of Alloy of Law that we seem to be disagreeing over. In truth, this isn't much different from the form-based Investiture one finds on Sel, where specific shape is the key - here, however, the interactions are more limited. Still, one cannot deny the raw power of Allomancy. It is instinctive and intuitive for the practitioner, as opposed to requiring a great deal of study and exactness, as one finds in the form bases Investitures of Sel. You are saying that Allomancy is stronger correct? The book says "raw power" and while I understand how you are interpreting it, I disagree entirely with your statement that it, "strongly indicates Allomancy wins in a shoving match". I take the meaning of raw as unrefined, not stronger in any way, whether it be in pure spiritual power or in utilization. To me at least, my interpretation seems to fit in perfectly with the rest of the paragraph. The power is a lot less exact and knowledge intensive then the Selish magics. The rest of the paragraph has nothing to say whatsoever about how manifestations of Investiture on Sel require less spiritual energy. In addition to that, I wonder where you get the idea that "high investiture doesn't necessitate stronger outcomes". I'm totally brain-dead right now from my day so it's probably my fault, but I've been unable to come up with an example of what you seem to be describing. Would you mind providing one? My second disagreement comes from how you casually brush off the report information we've received. Sure it isn't a direct quote, but not everyone has a tape recorder to bring with them, or even the inclination to do so. The information there isn't contradicted in the books anywhere, and it fits nicely with what we understand so far. Rereading it, I can't find a point where the post seems "hazy". Until we see something from the books that explicitly contradicts it, I'm taking it as truth, but if you don't want to I'm not sure that I'll have anything left to say. I also am not sure where you've pulled the information that "Elantrins are dealing with a lot of investiture, and that investiture is hard to handle." You mention a secondary source, but I don't know where you got it from, unless I'm missing something, certainly not from the Ars Arcanum or the post. 2
Kykeon Posted October 17, 2012 Posted October 17, 2012 The main issue I have with this topic is the assumption of a fair fight, when both disciplines have made trickery and underhanded tactics the core of their combat philosophy. That being said: The monk might withstand a LOT, but closing in on the Mistborn would be another matter entirely.
dj26792 he/him Posted October 18, 2012 Posted October 18, 2012 I dont have quotes to support it but I know I've seen Brandon talk about Scadrialese magic being light on for investiture, but in terms of out comes compare it to a bullet or a pile of gunpowder there isnt much gunpowder in a bullet but it is very focused and therefore extremely useful for its given purpose (killing things... this metaphor keeps getting better) The pile of gunpowder can do more but it isnt as good at any one thing without a lot of work. Thats why I think the mistborn will win that and ranged attack...
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