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Reading Excuses - 9/24/2012 - Stroniax - Age to Age, We Fall [V]


Glaring at the Survivor

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First book. Please critique everything so I can get better with this!

(Please label what you are critiquing (Prologue or Chalter 1) so I know which one you mean.)

This is the first book I have written and am getting critiqued on.

Edited by Stroniax
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On the prologue, my biggest issue is that most of it doesn't seem like a prologue at all. The first chunk, with Rick, felt more like a proper prologue in that it was set well before the rest of the action and apparently had not much to do with the start of the story proper. (I assume it has something to do with the overall story, but am waiting for the connection there.)

For the part with Rick, I wasn't ever feeling a connection with him. It seemed like you were trying to develop one, but I didn't feel it.

About the tech: the reference to specific phone types, especially iPhones at only version 7/8, doesn't seem reasonable given that this is supposed to be 74 years in the future. I mean, it took Apple what, 5-6 years to go from the first one to the 4s (I'm not even including the 5 so that it doesn't seem to fly by too fast). If Apple keeps making and naming them like they do now, in 74 years they'll have the iPhone 42s, or something like that. I'd be surprised if it's even called the same thing, or that they are even called phones by that time. Likewise the reference to 4G access (which is available in parts of the world now, nevermind in 74 years) and Verizon (I'd be surprised if the same company/name was still around then).

For the rest of Rick's part, the explanation of the EEST seemed like an unnecessary info dump, although quite quick. The line about dying on the trip seemed like it was trying to be a hook, while the assassination line definitely was. I assume the dying part was indicating some sort of generation ship, or cryo/revival, or something like that. When you start talking about the assassinations, the scope pulls way back and goes directly to telling the reader rather than showing. This especially includes the paragraph about hacking.

Finally, the last line in this part generally confuses me. I'm kind of used to this in a certain type of science fiction stories, though I don't often read ones that have really steep learning curves. However, given the other problems already present in the start of the story, I would tend to chalk this line up to poor viewpoint/narrative phrasing, rather than the possibility that Rick is both still alive and assassinated, which I kind of guess is what you are going for.

As I said previously, I felt like the rest of this wasn't exactly a prologue, especially since chapter 1 started in the middle of the action just started in the prologue, only an hour later. I kind of like the Panther character, especially as he's presented at first: someone who has chosen not to talk, due to some effect his voice has, and who can intimidate or blend in as he chooses.

On the other hand, the reveal that ends the part of this action that is in the prologue doesn't grab me at all. Right off the bat I have problems with it. The first is the coincidental nature of the discussion happening right when he could hear it. Next, the description so far had been of a very empty ship, with apparently only Panther and Valcar roaming that part of the ship, and in fact Panther was headed to something called the Isolation Room. Now, suddenly he can hear voices, but he can't locate anyone who could have been speaking. If the threat presented by the spoken words was that important, it should be trivial to track down the speaker. Finally, it seems to strongly smell of maid and butler dialog by the end, talking about all the attributes of Panther that the reader doesn't know, but the listeners presumably do -- or would learn in some other setting, not this one.

Also, at the end of the prologue division Panther thinks he'll investigate "later", which apparently means immediately writing down what he heard and finding Valcar to help him investigate, which doesn't seem very much later at all.

In the first chapter, the conceit of having Panther think something and Valcar respond to it, or nearly so, is starting to get a bit thin. Fortunately, you address this a bit later with Panther actually regretting that it wasn't really mind-to-mind contact.

There is another abrupt switch to Panther hearing conspiracy dialog, this time right in the middle of a different conversation. From the way it was written, I didn't really know what to think about the switch. My best guess was that he had some sort of subconscious decision to tune Valcar out and listen in to something else, but that doesn't exactly seem to fit with him running off. However, I'm at a loss for any other explanation, so I am generally left to conclude that the author just wanted it to happen right then. If the reason why this (overhearing conversations about conspiracy actions) is happening is supposed to be one of the discoveries in the book, I could believe it, but at this point you as the author haven't built up enough trust in me as a reader to take it in stride and read to find out what the discovery is.

It's never explained what caused Panther to start running, either. (Or is it Talon at that point? I was kind of confused on that switch as well).

Right when Panther starts running, there is what I think might be a POV error. The perspective changes to that of Valcar as he gets out of breath trying to keep up with Panther and then watching him run off. It may not be an error if you are writing in omniscient, but if that is the case, I'd kind of like an earlier indication that omniscient is what is going on. Mind you, this isn't bad as one I read where the POV was "omniscient", but really all from one character's perspective until about 80% through the book, when it suddenly jumped around in the middle of a chapter before settling back on the same character for the rest of the story (IIRC). Anyway, here the perspective shifts back to Talon right about at the explosion.

I think you may have had a wrong name in there also, since I think "Talon would have looked like a larger form of Talon" should probably be "Talon would have looked like a larger form of Panther".

The fight was good enough, but I also had problems with the computer interface portion. I'm not going to pick on that too much, since I'm a programmer by trade and so would probably have far too specific problems for a general-read story, but here are some of the biggies that people who have had almost any contact with computers might notice.

  • For something like controlling a ship, how could those files even be deleted? It seems like "deleting" the radio ability from a car's stereo.
  • Why would they even use passwords so far in the future, rather than biometric identification?
  • Even with passwords, how would they guess the password in three attempts? Or if they aren't guessing, why take three attempts to three very different passwords?
  • Speaking of which, in any place you'd type your password now, only •••••• shows up. Why do the passwords appear on the screen here?
  • The screen was "locked", but Talon could both read everything that had been typed in, and type in commands himself.
  • It was far too easy to trigger a self-destruct. That one didn't even require a password, where in reality any well-designed self-destruct would require authentication and probably a physical component to enable it as well.
  • Likewise, stopping the self-destruct was way too easy - just tell the computer to stop it, and it does.
  • Kind of tying in to later stuff, but are there no backups for a critically important piece of software that controls a large machine's functioning? Anywhere?
  • Finally, a timing issue. Talon attacks the group of men while one is at the computer typing franticly, but the log shows nothing happening between the 30 minute warning for self-destruct, and the 20 minute warning, with only minimal text typed after. What was the guy on the computer doing, then?

Lastly, Panther gets off too easily for being present where the saboteurs were also. He is pretending to be knocked out, but somehow something basically fought and demolished the others, and he isn't suspected of either 1) being one of the conspirators who had been taken out also, or 2) having done the taking-out and reversing the self-destruct? Also in this last part, we get more maid-and-butler dialog explaining to each other that there are still problems remaining from what the saboteurs did.

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On the prologue, my biggest issue is that most of it doesn't seem like a prologue at all. The first chunk, with Rick, felt more like a proper prologue in that it was set well before the rest of the action and apparently had not much to do with the start of the story proper. (I assume it has something to do with the overall story, but am waiting for the connection there.)

The EEST will be critical later on, along with some of Rick and what he did and what happened.

About the tech: the reference to specific phone types, especially iPhones at only version 7/8, doesn't seem reasonable given that this is supposed to be 74 years in the future. I mean, it took Apple what, 5-6 years to go from the first one to the 4s (I'm not even including the 5 so that it doesn't seem to fly by too fast). If Apple keeps making and naming them like they do now, in 74 years they'll have the iPhone 42s, or something like that. I'd be surprised if it's even called the same thing, or that they are even called phones by that time. Likewise the reference to 4G access (which is available in parts of the world now, nevermind in 74 years) and Verizon (I'd be surprised if the same company/name was still around then).

I didn't even think of that. Taking this into consideration, they have been renamed XFCommunication devices. This is why I have this up to be critiqued.

For the rest of Rick's part, the explanation of the EEST seemed like an unnecessary info dump, although quite quick. The line about dying on the trip seemed like it was trying to be a hook, while the assassination line definitely was. I assume the dying part was indicating some sort of generation ship, or cryo/revival, or something like that. When you start talking about the assassinations, the scope pulls way back and goes directly to telling the reader rather than showing. This especially includes the paragraph about hacking.

Of course. I'll try to fix that.

Finally, the last line in this part generally confuses me. I'm kind of used to this in a certain type of science fiction stories, though I don't often read ones that have really steep learning curves. However, given the other problems already present in the start of the story, I would tend to chalk this line up to poor viewpoint/narrative phrasing, rather than the possibility that Rick is both still alive and assassinated, which I kind of guess is what you are going for.

In a way, his brain has been reincarnated in the computer system.

Edit: in the revised version, he actually dies of assassination after he has children, who survive.

As I said previously, I felt like the rest of this wasn't exactly a prologue, especially since chapter 1 started in the middle of the action just started in the prologue, only an hour later. I kind of like the Panther character, especially as he's presented at first: someone who has chosen not to talk, due to some effect his voice has, and who can intimidate or blend in as he chooses.

On the other hand, the reveal that ends the part of this action that is in the prologue doesn't grab me at all. Right off the bat I have problems with it. The first is the coincidental nature of the discussion happening right when he could hear it. Next, the description so far had been of a very empty ship, with apparently only Panther and Valcar roaming that part of the ship, and in fact Panther was headed to something called the Isolation Room. Now, suddenly he can hear voices, but he can't locate anyone who could have been speaking. If the threat presented by the spoken words was that important, it should be trivial to track down the speaker. Finally, it seems to strongly smell of maid and butler dialog by the end, talking about all the attributes of Panther that the reader doesn't know, but the listeners presumably do -- or would learn in some other setting, not this one.

I'll show you the table of "Gifts and Partial Gifts" I am working on soon.

Also, at the end of the prologue division Panther thinks he'll investigate "later", which apparently means immediately writing down what he heard and finding Valcar to help him investigate, which doesn't seem very much later at all.

In the first chapter, the conceit of having Panther think something and Valcar respond to it, or nearly so, is starting to get a bit thin. Fortunately, you address this a bit later with Panther actually regretting that it wasn't really mind-to-mind contact.

"Later" has been fixed to "soon".

There is another abrupt switch to Panther hearing conspiracy dialog, this time right in the middle of a different conversation. From the way it was written, I didn't really know what to think about the switch. My best guess was that he had some sort of subconscious decision to tune Valcar out and listen in to something else, but that doesn't exactly seem to fit with him running off. However, I'm at a loss for any other explanation, so I am generally left to conclude that the author just wanted it to happen right then. If the reason why this (overhearing conversations about conspiracy actions) is happening is supposed to be one of the discoveries in the book, I could believe it, but at this point you as the author haven't built up enough trust in me as a reader to take it in stride and read to find out what the discovery is.

Any suggestions to "build up your confidence"?

It's never explained what caused Panther to start running, either. (Or is it Talon at that point? I was kind of confused on that switch as well).

They saboteurs said "drop the bomb". Talon/Panther recognized this as danger and ran off to fix it. The difference between names is due to a change in personality. If he is protecting someone by injuring someone else, he is Talon. Otherwise, he's probably Panther.

Right when Panther starts running, there is what I think might be a POV error. The perspective changes to that of Valcar as he gets out of breath trying to keep up with Panther and then watching him run off. It may not be an error if you are writing in omniscient, but if that is the case, I'd kind of like an earlier indication that omniscient is what is going on. Mind you, this isn't bad as one I read where the POV was "omniscient", but really all from one character's perspective until about 80% through the book, when it suddenly jumped around in the middle of a chapter before settling back on the same character for the rest of the story (IIRC). Anyway, here the perspective shifts back to Talon right about at the explosion.

I'll fix that soon.

I think you may have had a wrong name in there also, since I think "Talon would have looked like a larger form of Talon" should probably be "Talon would have looked like a larger form of Panther".

Thank you. That is fixed.

The fight was good enough, but I also had problems with the computer interface portion. I'm not going to pick on that too much, since I'm a programmer by trade and so would probably have far too specific problems for a general-read story, but here are some of the biggies that people who have had almost any contact with computers might notice.

  • For something like controlling a ship, how could those files even be deleted? It seems like "deleting" the radio ability from a car's stereo.
  • Why would they even use passwords so far in the future, rather than biometric identification?
  • Even with passwords, how would they guess the password in three attempts? Or if they aren't guessing, why take three attempts to three very different passwords?
  • Speaking of which, in any place you'd type your password now, only •••••• shows up. Why do the passwords appear on the screen here?
  • The screen was "locked", but Talon could both read everything that had been typed in, and type in commands himself.
  • It was far too easy to trigger a self-destruct. That one didn't even require a password, where in reality any well-designed self-destruct would require authentication and probably a physical component to enable it as well.
  • Likewise, stopping the self-destruct was way too easy - just tell the computer to stop it, and it does.
  • Kind of tying in to later stuff, but are there no backups for a critically important piece of software that controls a large machine's functioning? Anywhere?
  • Finally, a timing issue. Talon attacks the group of men while one is at the computer typing franticly, but the log shows nothing happening between the 30 minute warning for self-destruct, and the 20 minute warning, with only minimal text typed after. What was the guy on the computer doing, then?

(1) good point

(2) good point

(3) they each had one guess, and they had watched the ship pilot for a while. The password alternated every few days

(4) as far as I'm aware, in command prompt, the passwords are show in plain text

(5)

Quickly, Talon, hacked back into the computer database. The command window was up and running, and the last lines read the following:

He hacked into the computer.

(6) good point

(7) ^

(8)^

(9) locking the computer. Good point, though, it took too long.

Lastly, Panther gets off too easily for being present where the saboteurs were also. He is pretending to be knocked out, but somehow something basically fought and demolished the others, and he isn't suspected of either 1) being one of the conspirators who had been taken out also, or 2) having done the taking-out and reversing the self-destruct? Also in this last part, we get more maid-and-butler dialog explaining to each other that there are still problems remaining from what the saboteurs did.

Will fix.

(look at my signature)

Edited by Stroniax
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Okay, since Caleb pretty much covered every aspect of the story, I won't have much to say.

Listening- I would assume that Panther's ability to listen in on conversatrions has to do with his Gift, but it isn't very clear within the story, he sort of just hears things that he shouldn't be able to. If you made him concentrate or something like that in order to listen in it would make more sense.

Fighting- The bad guys just seem to stand around and let Talon beat them up. Somehow he just walks up to someone and punches a guy with a taser in the face without getting shot. Also, you say that getting tased is like a mosquito bite to him, so why is he worried about getting tased at the end. One other thing is that people keep getting up after he hits them, if he's such a proficient fighter he should be able to take them out in one blow.

That's pretty much it (I agree with Caleb about wverything else), so keep writing!

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Okay, since Caleb pretty much covered every aspect of the story, I won't have much to say.

Listening- I would assume that Panther's ability to listen in on conversatrions has to do with his Gift, but it isn't very clear within the story, he sort of just hears things that he shouldn't be able to. If you made him concentrate or something like that in order to listen in it would make more sense.

Fighting- The bad guys just seem to stand around and let Talon beat them up. Somehow he just walks up to someone and punches a guy with a taser in the face without getting shot. Also, you say that getting tased is like a mosquito bite to him, so why is he worried about getting tased at the end. One other thing is that people keep getting up after he hits them, if he's such a proficient fighter he should be able to take them out in one blow.

That's pretty much it (I agree with Caleb about wverything else), so keep writing!

Enough mosquito bites get annoying. And sometimes painful. I suppose I will have to change the comparison.

Edit: on the topic of the fight, in the new revised and re-written version I am currently writing, I will fix that. Thanks!

Edited by Stroniax
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Yep, Caleb hit everything. Pretty much point for point what I wrote down.

I'm going to go farther on the computer code and say strongly to nix it now. I understand code, though I'm not a programmer, and my eyes instantly glazed over when I saw it. I didn't even try to read it until I saw you had made it integral to the plot, and then I slogged through it just to understand what was happening.

To wit: Stephen Hawking notes in "A Brief History of Time" that an editor told him every equation he includes will halve his readers, so he only put in one--in a book about astrophysics. Now realize that more people understand equations than do computer code... I'll leave it at that.

I think the characters of Panther and Valcar are worth developing, but I think the story itself needs some more work. Here are the things that popped into my head while reading. You may answer them later, but not knowing now left me confused:

Why are Panther and Valcar traveling on this ship? They were living on Earth--why travel now? Pather is mostly reacting to events that unfold, and there as yet isn't any driving force to the story to attract my attention, just some fighting on a ship. Who are hijackers and why are the hijacking?

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Why do robbers steal? Why do murderers murder?

As to why Valcar and Panther are on the ship, you will see in chapter… 4 or 5. Also, of you don't remember, Panther an Valcar mysteriously appeared on Earth, along with others, during the Fall of the Phoenix.

Any ideas to capture your attention?

Edited by Stroniax
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