Blackhoof Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 I was wondering, have any figures been provided as to the numbers of epics worldwide, or US-wide? And as to their numbers now as opposed to at the beginning? And more than epic numbers, how many people are left after 11 years of this dystopian oppression? The only semi-concrete numbers I can recall are provided by David, who claims that there are "thousands of epics in Newcago, hundreds of which are High Epics, dozens of which possess a prime invincibility" (which in itself is contradictory, as usually the term High Epic is defined by an Epic with a Prime Invincibility, but nevermind). This would give us the proportion of Epics compared to humans in Newcago (which is in itself not particularly helpful, as we can suppose that Epics living in Newcago are killed much less than Epics warring with each other outside, and Epics likely congregate under Steelheart for protection and the quality of life, same reasonas humans do.) but it is a start. Now, Chicago today has 2.7 million inhabitants. Obviously, it is quite difficult to extrapolate the current population from this. There are so many factors to consider:1: how many people have been directly killed by the Epics since Calamity? 2: how many have been indirectly killed due to neglect, lack of healthcare, increased crime, poverty, etc as a result of Calamity and the Epics? 3: how have birth rates been decreased by the Epics and the oppressive climate? and conversely, 4: how have they been increased by the poverty and destitution of much of the populace? 5: how many have left Newcago since Calamity? How many have immigrated there due to the quality of life under Steelheart? And all of it would be supported by nothing more than supposition and conjecture. 1: no idea, although there are clues. Steelheart himself is responsible for 17'000 confirmed deaths, with the people in the bank being the very first. Firefight and Conflux obviously killed no-one, and Nightwielder has an unknown amount of deaths, but likely in the hundreds. After the inner circle, Fortuity was listed as the worst, with a comparatively meek 100 kills. After him, there are only a few dozen Invincible epics, who must have less than a hundred deaths each to their name. After them, we can suppose that weaker Epics will have less and less kills, as David said that Epics as weak as Curveball had to be careful who they killed, they couldn't do it with impunity. Likely, all the other Epics bar Steelheart are responsible for tens of thousands of deaths between them. Compared to the whole populace, not actually too much. Assuming all other factors cancel themselves out, we have a city of perhaps 2.6 million inhabitants (tentatively), and maybe 3000 Epics among them. This is a large disparity, to the order of 866.6:1. Although, this seems about right to be honest. This would give a figure of 346'180 Epics in the whole of the US, (and assuming that perhaps 1/100 Epics have a Prime invulnerability) there would be 300 nationwide. Are 300 invincible superhumans, each one capable of wiping out the US congress should they take issue with it, or taking on armies, capable of overthrowing the nation? I think yes. but I would die for more accurate figures. Does anyone know any? 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kobold King Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 This is a seriously awesome analysis. I have nothing of merit to add to the figures, but I would ask the question: how sure are we of Newcago's population being an accurate measure of the true Epic-vanilla ratio? Could it be that Newcago attracts a higher number of Epics compared to normal humans than is regular within a Fractured States community, or vice versa? Does anyone remember similar figures being given for Babilar in Firefight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirce Luckwielder Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 I'm going to spoiler this just in case somebody hasn't read Firefight. Are you sure that Firefight hasn't killed. I remember her saying that she had to be so good with a gun because when she did send an illusion of fire at someone, she had to send a bullet too otherwise they would just get not get hurt and reveal her secret. Extrapolating from that, I would say that she at least has some deaths on her hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackhoof Posted March 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 This is a seriously awesome analysis. I have nothing of merit to add to the figures, but I would ask the question: how sure are we of Newcago's population being an accurate measure of the true Epic-vanilla ratio? Could it be that Newcago attracts a higher number of Epics compared to normal humans than is regular within a Fractured States community, or vice versa? Does anyone remember similar figures being given for Babilar in Firefight? aww shucks that is my concern too- we have no idea. Both more epics and more people would logically cone to newcago, but perhaps less epics (who might not want to be dominated by steelheart). We just don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwiLyghtSansSparkles Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 Guys. I did the math (using round numbers and guesstimates because it's easier for me). If the human-to-Epic ratio is about 866:1, and the current Epic population is about 346,000, then the population of the FSA is about 299,646,000. The US population in 2014 was 319,900,000, so some quick subtraction tells us that the Epics have collectively caused roughly 20,264,000 deaths. And I don't even know if that accounts for Obliteration. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackhoof Posted March 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 (edited) I'm going to spoiler this just in case somebody hasn't read Firefight. Are you sure that Firefight hasn't killed. I remember her saying that she had to be so good with a gun because when she did send an illusion of fire at someone, she had to send a bullet too otherwise they would just get not get hurt and reveal her secret. Extrapolating from that, I would say that she at least has some deaths on her hands. That is true, but David claimed that firefight had few deaths to his/her name, although perhaps he meant INNOCENT deaths. Maybe she killed in self-defence, or killed gangsters or criminals? Maybe Edited March 10, 2015 by Blackhoof 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackhoof Posted March 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 Guys. I did the math (using round numbers and guesstimates because it's easier for me). If the human-to-Epic ratio is about 866:1, and the current Epic population is about 346,000, then the population of the FSA is about 299,646,000. The US population in 2014 was 319,900,000, so some quick subtraction tells us that the Epics have collectively caused roughly 20,264,000 deaths. And I don't even know if that accounts for Obliteration. oh, that's just my bad. I rounded the 866.6 figure from something like 866.666661 or so. So that number will be off. but I don't have much trouble believing that anyway. Obliteration himself has killed over six million people- combined populations of Houston, San Diego and Albaqueque. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwiLyghtSansSparkles Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 oh, that's just my bad. I rounded the 866.6 figure from something like 866.666661 or so. So that number will be off. but I don't have much trouble believing that anyway. Obliteration himself has killed over six million people- combined populations of Houston, San Diego and Albaqueque. Oh, no, there's no need to apologize. I just meant that I rounded the numbers up or down because I get math anxiety and work better with round numbers, so my guesstimates will be rough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 1/100 of 346,000 leaves 3000ish High Epics not 300 Nice work, I did something similar a while ago for the Reckoners RP here on the forums and from memory I got pretty similar results, although I do think that Newcago is probably a bad example as I imagine more Epics would have been drawn there due to Steelhearts presence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirce Luckwielder Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 That is true, but David claimed that firefight had few deaths to his/her name, although perhaps he meant INNOCENT deaths. Maybe she killed in self-defence, or killed gangsters or criminals? Maybe I know it wasn't much, but I figured that we shouls keep it straight.Concerning Regalia: Do we know how many she killed when she took over New York? It has 8.4 million people right now. I am guessing with the flooding of it, that she would have killed 60-80% of the people living there. She would have another 5-6 million on her hands. but I don't have much trouble believing that anyway. Obliteration himself has killed over six million people- combined populations of Houston, San Diego and Albaqueque. combine that with this and we have a lot of deaths. They just keep adding up after only a couple Epics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackhoof Posted March 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 1/100 of 346,000 leaves 3000ish High Epics not 300 Nice work, I did something similar a while ago for the Reckoners RP here on the forums and from memory I got pretty similar results, although I do think that Newcago is probably a bad example as I imagine more Epics would have been drawn there due to Steelhearts presence. great, now we are even more screwed! 3000 invincible Epics running/flying around! Although likely many don't have strong offensive powers to back up their PI (consider Fortuity- nearly impossible to kill, but with no directy offensive powers). I imagine many High Epics were like him. I know it wasn't much, but I figured that we shouls keep it straight. Concerning Regalia: Do we know how many she killed when she took over New York? It has 8.4 million people right now. I am guessing with the flooding of it, that she would have killed 60-80% of the people living there. She would have another 5-6 million on her hands. combine that with this and we have a lot of deaths. They just keep adding up after only a couple Epics. Exactly! how many New Yorkers lived above the eventual waterline? hardly any. And even if they had all gotten above before the flooding, there is no physical way that Babilar could support the same amount of people as New York did, with space considerations. I got the feeling that Babilar was a bit crowded on the rooftops, but many buildings were almost entirely abandoned (given how manyof them David flew through without finding anyone). Two Epics killed half that provided figure, 10 million sparking people! I have a feeling that way more than 20 million people died as a result of the Epics..... and in the general chaos and poverty of the last 10 years. How long could you survive outside of places like Newcago with warring epics, some of which are invincible, fighting each other to the death for the rubble of your city? Over ten years, one rampaging Epic could kill quite a few people, if he/she isn't stopped by a more powerful one that objected to their intrusion into their turf. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwiLyghtSansSparkles Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 great, now we are even more screwed! 3000 invincible Epics running/flying around! Although likely many don't have strong offensive powers to back up their PI (consider Fortuity- nearly impossible to kill, but with no directy offensive powers). I imagine many High Epics were like him. Exactly! how many New Yorkers lived above the eventual waterline? hardly any. And even if they had all gotten above before the flooding, there is no physical way that Babilar could support the same amount of people as New York did, with space considerations. I got the feeling that Babilar was a bit crowded on the rooftops, but many buildings were almost entirely abandoned (given how manyof them David flew through without finding anyone). Two Epics killed half that provided figure, 10 million sparking people! I have a feeling that way more than 20 million people died as a result of the Epics..... and in the general chaos and poverty of the last 10 years. How long could you survive outside of places like Newcago with warring epics, some of which are invincible, fighting each other to the death for the rubble of your city? Over ten years, one rampaging Epic could kill quite a few people, if he/she isn't stopped by a more powerful one that objected to their intrusion into their turf. Yikes. So if we have Obliteration with 6 million, Regalia with 10 million, and Steelheart with 17,000, then we're already close to the 20 million mark with just three Epics accounted for. So all told, Epics in the FSA alone could have conceivably killed at least 30 or 40 million people, to say nothing of other nations. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackhoof Posted March 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 Although, I do think that Epics as powerful as Obliteration and Regalia are very rare, though. Regalia and Steelheart were considered the most powerful Epic emperors, and Obliteration frequently mentioned as a very powerful, terrifying and destructive Epic, and the wayhe was talked about just implies to me that his genocidal attitude is rare among Epics (or at least his accomplishments). I just don't think there are many Epics that powerful/murderous at all in the FSA. Maybe only a handful. But still, a handful of Epics capable of destroying cities? That is at least 10-20 million dead. Terrifying to think about. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyman Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 (edited) Although, I do think that Epics as powerful as Obliteration and Regalia are very rare, though. Regalia and Steelheart were considered the most powerful Epic emperors, and Obliteration frequently mentioned as a very powerful, terrifying and destructive Epic, and the wayhe was talked about just implies to me that his genocidal attitude is rare among Epics (or at least his accomplishments). I just don't think there are many Epics that powerful/murderous at all in the FSA. Maybe only a handful. But still, a handful of Epics capable of destroying cities? That is at least 10-20 million dead. Terrifying to think about. My guess is that the number of people killed by Epics drops dramatically as the power decreases. Like, exponentially quickly. This means that to figure out how many people the Epics have killed, we really don't need all that many Epics to get ballpark numbers. On the other hand, Seattle? maybe Oregon? was turned into a nuclear waste-land, so we probably need a few more at this scale. : - D. At any rate, the lack of basic amenities probably killed far more people than the Epics combined. That death toll is almost certainly in the millions. ETA some needed uncertainty. Edited March 11, 2015 by happyman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwiLyghtSansSparkles Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 My guess is that the number of people killed by Epics drops dramatically as the power decreases. Like, exponentially quickly. This means that to figure out how many people the Epics have killed, we really don't need all that many Epics to get ballpark numbers. On the other hand, Seattle was turned into a nuclear waste-land, so we probably need a few more at this scale. : - D. At any rate, the lack of basic amenities probably killed far more people than the Epics combined. That death toll is almost certainly in the millions. It was? I thought that was Oregon--did I miss something? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyman Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 It was? I thought that was Oregon--did I miss something? I don't have my book, so I'm not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kobold King Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 It was? I thought that was Oregon--did I miss something? I just searched Steelheart and Firefight both for instances of the name "Seattle" on my Kindle and got zero results. I'm pretty sure Happyman means Oregon, though he may know something I don't. "Happyman" would be a great name for an Epic, by the way. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwiLyghtSansSparkles Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 I don't have my book, so I'm not sure. Which book was it mentioned in? And was it a book or a WoB? Because in Steelheart, Megan says all of Oregon is a wasteland, but I don't remember anything about Seattle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackhoof Posted March 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 A wasteland, not necessarily a nuclear one. I think she just meant it was destroyed by all the epics fighting each other over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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