Nightblood And Black Orb Correlation

[Omniscience]

So I just noticed that there may be a similarity between the orb that Gavilar gives Szeth at the beginning of WoK and Szeth's description of Nightblood at the end of WoR.

 

 

"Szeth hesitated, then knelt down and took the sphere. It was odd, unlike any he'd seen before. Though it was completely dark, it seemed to glow somehow. With a light that was black."

 

 

"Szeth swore he could see a small trail of black smoke coming off the metal. Like stormlight, only dark."

 

I saw this and thought that perhaps there was a connection between whatever is in the black orb, and what comes off Nightblood after he has stolen investiture. I've seen it theorized that the black orb is related to Odium's magic, so perhaps whatever comes off Nightblood is related to the nature of Odium's magic system. I'm not too familiar with Warbreaker or Nalthis in general. Thoughts?

[HurinThalion he/him]

That's an interesting idea. It also brings up questions about how Gavilar got this orb that came from a different magic system. 

 

About Nalthis, the magic system revolves around breaths, each person starting with one. Nightblood was a regular sword infused with 800 breaths to awaken it, with the command phrase "destroy evil." 

 

 

 

 

edit: 1000 breaths according to Snoopy, and I forgot to mention that Warbreaker is free on Brandon's website, in case you hadn't already heard.

Edited February 18, 2015 by HurinThalion

[Kipper he/him]

That's an interesting idea. It also brings up questions about how Gavilar got this orb that came from a different magic system.

About Nalthis, the magic system revolves around breaths, each person starting with one. Nightblood was a regular sword infused with 800 breaths to awaken it, with the command phrase "destroy evil."

Nightblood was actually Awakened with 1000 Breaths. Sorry to nitpick. Edited February 17, 2015 by Snoopy

[Omniscience]

I just had a thought. We know by WoB that foreign magics and investitures don't always manifest themselves the same on different shardworlds. So perhaps in the absence of Endowment, Nightblood is manifesting itself according to Odium's magic system and uses Odium's magic system.

[Patrick Star]

I just had a thought. We know by WoB that foreign magics and investitures don't always manifest themselves the same on different shardworlds. So perhaps in the absence of Endowment, Nightblood is manifesting itself according to Odium's magic system and uses Odium's magic system.

 

From what we've seen, Nightblood hasn't changed at all.

[Omniscience]

 

 

From what we've seen, Nightblood hasn't changed at all.

 

We've also only seen about a page with Nightblood in it. I'm just postulating possible correlations between Gavilar's orb and Nightblood. 

[HurinThalion he/him]

From what we've seen, Nightblood hasn't changed at all.

 

All we've seen is a black sword that can talk and says, "Hello! Would you like to destroy some evil today?"

Even a shardblade can do that.

 

 

edit: you can ignore this. Omniscience just said it.

Edited February 18, 2015 by HurinThalion

[Moogle]

I'm not sure of this one. They're both black, but I think they're described differently. Like, with Nightblood, he leaks smoke, and it drops to the ground. (As opposed to something like Stormlight, which rises up rather than falls to the ground.)

 

The sphere just seems like it 'glows' darkness. It doesn't leak smoke that falls to the ground. They're both black, and slightly malevolent seeming, but I think the similarities end there.

 

It's an interesting idea, though. Maybe it'll turn out to be the case in future books!

Edited February 18, 2015 by Moogle

[Bort he/him]

Nightblood was actually Awakened with 1000 Breaths. Sorry to nitpick.

 

I thought it was 10,000 Breaths.

[natc]

I thought it was 10,000 Breaths.

I doubt any Returned Awakener is silly enough to give up enough breath for 8th Heightening for an experiment to awaken a sword to destroy evil.

[Bort he/him]

Having gone onto Brandon's website and read through parts of Warbreaker looking for the answer to this, I was wrong. It is 1000 Breaths to awaken an object like Nightblood.

[Emerald]

There's also the interlude in WoK where one of Szeth's masters hints at a story of stealing an orb from the Nightwatcher. It makes Szeth uncomfortable because it reminds him of the orb Gavilar gave him. There's no more information on what it is or if the story is even true, but it's possible that the Nightwatcher was the keeper of said orbs, or perhaps, she had been given one to watch after or had even stolen one herself.

[HurinThalion he/him]

~20,000 breaths brings you to the Ninth Heightning, giving you Greater Awakening, which is required to awaken stone or steel. So yes, you need 20,000 breaths to do it, but only 1,000 are put into the sword.

 

http://brandonsanderson.com/warbreaker-ars-arcanum/

[jefftucker0525]

 

I'm not sure of this one. They're both black, but I think they're described differently. Like, with Nightblood, he leaks smoke, and it drops to the ground. (As opposed to something like Stormlight, which rises up rather than falls to the ground.)

 

The sphere just seems like it 'glows' darkness. It doesn't leak smoke that falls to the ground. They're both black, and slightly malevolent seeming, but I think the similarities end there.

 

It's an interesting idea, though. Maybe it'll turn out to be the case in future books!

 

 

Well actually it matches pretty well. When Stormlight is in an orb it glows and when it is not its ethereal and, yes, rises. The fact that Nightbloods Investiture (I think i might be mis-using the term) is black and drops to the ground, in my mind atleast, is a strong point in its favor that it is using Odium Investiture. After all, why wouldnt Odiums Investiture behave opposite of the Honor/Cultivation mixture that we know is Stormlight? 

[name_here]

Nightblood has the exact same visual effect on Nalthis, where he's definitely powered by Endowment. It could be a coincidence, or the black orb could operate on similar principles.

[Frosted Flakes]

So I just noticed that there may be a similarity between the orb that Gavilar gives Szeth at the beginning of WoK and Szeth's description of Nightblood at the end of WoR.

I saw this and thought that perhaps there was a connection between whatever is in the black orb, and what comes off Nightblood after he has stolen investiture. I've seen it theorized that the black orb is related to Odium's magic, so perhaps whatever comes off Nightblood is related to the nature of Odium's magic system. I'm not too familiar with Warbreaker or Nalthis in general. Thoughts?

You might be interested in my brief thoughts on that exact subject in my Stormlight Archive Reread. Link to the thread is in my signature, relevant passage is in Prologue: To Kill, second from last paragraph.

This concludes my shameless plug.

[Moogle]

Well actually it matches pretty well. When Stormlight is in an orb it glows and when it is not its ethereal and, yes, rises. The fact that Nightbloods Investiture (I think i might be mis-using the term) is black and drops to the ground, in my mind atleast, is a strong point in its favor that it is using Odium Investiture. After all, why wouldnt Odiums Investiture behave opposite of the Honor/Cultivation mixture that we know is Stormlight? 

 

We have an explanation for this one:

Q: Why are shardblades unnaturally light and Nightblood unnaturally heavy?

A: (I feel) he didn't really answer it directly, but basically it's because Nightblood is basically what Shardblades would be if they were "broken." It has to do why Nightblood leaks black smoke that falls down, as opposed to white mist that floats up, and things like this. They are built on the same principles, but in some ways opposites.

(source)

[skaa he/him]

Other smoke-related supernatural stuff on Roshar:

• The smokespren with a symbiotic bond with certain Rosharian fauna.
• The smoke that comes out of people's eyes when killed by Shardblades
• The Soulcasting connection between smoke, smokestone, and the Essence of Vapor.

Only a crazy person would believe that all these things are connected somehow, which is of course why I do.

On a more serious note, since the black smoke coming from Nightblood when unsheathed is the Breaths/souls that he consumed slowly leaking out, then maybe Innate Investiture in general appears as black smoke when forcibly ripped out of the body, which would explain the smoke that comes burning out of people's eye sockets when they get killed via Shardblade.

 

(Update: Here's a WoB linking Nightblood's smoke and the smoke that comes out of people's eyes after Shardblade-induced death.)

If this is true, then the anti-Stormlight in the black orb might just be the harvested essence of severed souls... which would be a cool power source for magical villains.

Edited June 23, 2015 by skaa

[Patrick Star]

Other smoke-related supernatural stuff on Roshar:

• The smokespren with a symbiotic bond with certain Rosharian fauna.
• The smoke that comes out of people's eyes when killed by Shardblades
• The Soulcasting connection between smoke, smokestone, and the Essence of Vapor.

Only a crazy person would believe that all these things are connected somehow, which is of course why I do.

On a more serious note, if the black smoke coming from Nightblood when unsheathed is actually the Breaths/souls that he consumed slowly leaking out, then maybe Innate Investiture in general appears as black smoke when forcibly ripped out of the body, which would explain the smoke that comes burning out of people's eyes when killed via Shardblade.

If this is true, then the anti-Stormlight in the black orb might just be the harvested essence of severed souls... which would be a cool power source for magical villains.

 

 

Mwahahahahahahaha!!!

 

Now, I have stocked up on 1000 black soul gems, and shall go on a harvesting spree with the Mace of Molag Bal.

 

Those town guards can only wish for an arrow in the knee...

[jefftucker0525]

jefftucker0525, on 19 Feb 2015 - 08:59 AM, said:

Well actually it matches pretty well. When Stormlight is in an orb it glows and when it is not its ethereal and, yes, rises. The fact that Nightbloods Investiture (I think i might be mis-using the term) is black and drops to the ground, in my mind atleast, is a strong point in its favor that it is using Odium Investiture. After all, why wouldnt Odiums Investiture behave opposite of the Honor/Cultivation mixture that we know is Stormlight? 

 

We have an explanation for this one:

Quote

Q: Why are shardblades unnaturally light and Nightblood unnaturally heavy?
A: (I feel) he didn't really answer it directly, but basically it's because Nightblood is basically what Shardblades would be if they were "broken." It has to do why Nightblood leaks black smoke that falls down, as opposed to white mist that floats up, and things like this. They are built on the same principles, but in some ways opposites.

(source)

 

Well this doesnt really answer that, it just says that the black smoke has something to do with Nightblood being broken. Nightblood is a Shardblade on Roshar, we have not seen any other broken Shardblades so we have nothing else to use for comparison. However it makes sense to me that, since a Shardblade is made of a Spren which is made of Honor and/or Cultivation (I know this isnt exactly how it works but basically so lets just avoid the technicalities please) a broken Shardblade could just be one that is now channelling Odiums Investiture through it or been corrupted by Odium in some way. However either way I dont see that WoB to be any sort of definiitive or even all that relavent of an answer to my question. Im not saying any of this to argue, its just my point of view on it. Feel free to disagree.

 

 

EDIT: i didnt quote the quote I quoted, sorry my computer decided I wasnt allowed

Edited February 24, 2015 by jefftucker0525

[Moogle]

Well this doesnt really answer that, it just says that the black smoke has something to do with Nightblood being broken. Nightblood is a Shardblade on Roshar, we have not seen any other broken Shardblades so we have nothing else to use for comparison. However it makes sense to me that, since a Shardblade is made of a Spren which is made of Honor and/or Cultivation (I know this isnt exactly how it works but basically so lets just avoid the technicalities please) a broken Shardblade could just be one that is now channelling Odiums Investiture through it or been corrupted by Odium in some way. However either way I dont see that WoB to be any sort of definiitive or even all that relavent of an answer to my question. Im not saying any of this to argue, its just my point of view on it. Feel free to disagree.

 

Oh, well, I was just trying to say that Nightblood leaks black smoke because he's broken. He was made of Breaths, he's of Endowment. It's not because Odium enters the picture anymore, he's always been like that and it's just a feature of him being a broken Shardblade. Nightblood's only inputs have ever been Breath and Stormlight, so it just doesn't make sense for him to be leaking Odium. We've got Brandon calling the black smoke corrupted Breaths here:

Anyway, Nightblood is named for the smoke he leaks, and he originally had a different name when he was created. ... The blackness that leaks out is actually corrupted and consumed Breaths, the ones that Nightblood leeches off anyone who draws him.

(source)

 

Those are my thoughts, anyways. Cosmere magic can be get whacky, so I understand why people would disagree.

Edited February 24, 2015 by Moogle

[natc]

Nightblood is quite the attractive mystery eh?

Gotta wonder how pouring too much breath into a lump of pointy steel wound up creating a talking, soul-stealing shardblade on steroids. When none of its creators even knew shardblades exist. What the hell were they visualizing?!?

[Nighthawk]

So if Nightblood is essentially an Endowment Shardblade (albeit a broken one) does that mean its possible to make a Shardblade-like weapon out of any Investiture? Like, could you have a Mistborn wielding a Preservation Shardblade that coalesces out of the mists?

 

Or Maybe an Aluminum Sword that behaves like a Shardblade doesn't kill another Allomancer when it cuts them but destroys their reserves like Aluminum does already.

Edited February 24, 2015 by Nighthawk

[Cheese United he/him]

So if Nightblood is essentially an Endowment Shardblade (albeit a broken one) does that mean its possible to make a Shardblade-like weapon out of any Investiture? Like, could you have a Mistborn wielding a Preservation Shardblade that coalesces out of the mists?

 

Or Maybe an Aluminum Sword that behaves like a Shardblade doesn't kill another Allomancer when it cuts them but destroys their reserves like Aluminum does already.

that would be awesome. Especially the mist blade. That would look really cool onscreen.

[Lumen]

Oh, well, I was just trying to say that Nightblood leaks black smoke because he's broken. He was made of Breaths, he's of Endowment. It's not because Odium enters the picture anymore, he's always been like that and it's just a feature of him being a broken Shardblade. Nightblood's only inputs have ever been Breath and Stormlight, so it just doesn't make sense for him to be leaking Odium. We've got Brandon calling the black smoke corrupted Breaths here:

 

Those are my thoughts, anyways. Cosmere magic can be get whacky, so I understand why people would disagree.

 

This may be answered somewhere...  The investiture that Nightblood absorbs and corrupts:  is it recycled?  That is, does it go back the the Shard that it came from?  Or am I confusing terms? Nightblood absorbs both breath/stormlight and Souls.  My understanding is that investiture is a closed system.  Not sure how Souls fit in.   What is "corrupted Breath"?  And if Nightblood can absorb and corrupt a soul, is this similar to how one of the Odium spren touches and corrupts Honor-spren?