Observer Posted September 12, 2012 Report Share Posted September 12, 2012 (edited) What if Adonalsium was shattered for a reason? What if Adonalsium was "evil"? He holds the most frightenin gand terrible of all the Shards Think about it. Why would Odium, hatred, be the strongest of all the Shards? Could it be that Adonalsium's hatred was its strongest element? Until we see other Shards and compare power, we can't be sure, but as of now we see the largest and most powerful piece of Adonalsium as its Hatred. One need only look at the aftermath of his brief visit to Sel to see proof of what I say.[8] In case you have turned a blind eye to that disaster, know that Aona and Skai are both dead, and that which they held has been Splintered Here we see that Odium killed not only one, but two shards in a "brief" period of time. So, discuss this. Is fixing Adonalsium really the right thing to do? Edited September 12, 2012 by Observer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windrunner he/him Posted September 12, 2012 Report Share Posted September 12, 2012 Unless I've missed something, I can't remember a quote where it directly says that Odium is stronger then other Shards. I've seen it referred to as the most "dangerous". That doesn't necessarily imply that he is any stronger then the rest. Sure he's Splintered other Shards, but we don't know anything about the circumstances, so I don't think that proves that he's any stronger then the ones he beat. I got the sense of single-minded ruthlessness and how well Rayse is matched to Odium as the real danger of that Shard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straff Venture he/him Posted September 12, 2012 Report Share Posted September 12, 2012 As you know I already think this is a great idea. At the moment it looks pretty much correct; if you combined the shards that we know about at the moment you'd have one damnation evil being. But there is the problem that we don't know all of the shard traits yet, so maybe the later ones will balance this and also bring some new pairs of traits in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Observer Posted September 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 12, 2012 One need only look at the aftermath of his brief visit to Sel to see proof of what I say.[8] In case you have turned a blind eye to that disaster, know that Aona and Skai are both dead, and that which they held has been Splintered I'll take brief visit to mean that he didn't take more than a few days to completely wreck two shards. Even if "terrible" was supposed to mean something else, beating two shards in a brief period of time is pretty impressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turos he/him Posted September 12, 2012 Report Share Posted September 12, 2012 Devotion Dominion Preservation Ruin Cultivation Odium Honor Endowment If you consider any of these evil or good, I guess this is how it would play out: 'Good'-Preservation, Devotion, Cultivation, Honor, Endowment = 5 'Bad'-Odium, Dominion, Ruin = 3 5 beats 3 But man... if Adonalsium is evil... Hoid needs to remake it good! Bwahahahahah! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cracknut he/him Posted September 12, 2012 Report Share Posted September 12, 2012 I like this. Devotion Dominion Preservation Ruin Cultivation Odium Honor Endowment If you consider any of these evil or good, I guess this is how it would play out: 'Good'-Preservation, Devotion, Cultivation, Honor, Endowment = 5 'Bad'-Odium, Dominion, Ruin = 3 5 beats 3 But man... if Adonalsium is evil... Hoid needs to remake it good! Bwahahahahah! Shouldn't there be 8 good and 8 bad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straff Venture he/him Posted September 12, 2012 Report Share Posted September 12, 2012 I wouldn't say cultivation was good, sort of neutral. Plus I don't think its just in numbers, odium is intensely evil while the 'good' ones are all admittedly good but they don't have a pure trait of virtue defining them. The most virtuous is probably preservation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thought Posted September 12, 2012 Report Share Posted September 12, 2012 This, again, assumes that hatred is evil. Hate is a wonderful motivating force, it pushes people to action. Isn't it good to, well, hate evil? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cracknut he/him Posted September 12, 2012 Report Share Posted September 12, 2012 This, again, assumes that hatred is evil. Hate is a wonderful motivating force, it pushes people to action. Isn't it good to, well, hate evil? It is and it isn't. What is good or evil you're talking here? Is it good to destroy something, even if its evil just because its evil? Whats more important, hating and destroying against evil or loving and saving good. Odium is evil because he hates all, only thing that drives him is hate. If hate for evil is only thing that drives person then he's evil himself too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Observer Posted September 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 12, 2012 (edited) You forget, Ruin was not evil. He put it quite well actually. Morality doesn't even enter the equation with him and Preservation. Likewise, Cultivation and Dominion are not necessarily good or evil, they are simply doing what they do. Devotion is a tough call. Does being forced to love count? Honor is difficult as well. But then again, Szeth is honorable, and yet what he does is terrible. He has a choice in the matter, so is he good or bad? Odium would be much like Honor and Devotion if not for one factor: Its holder is evil. Odium hates all, and is driven by it. He seeks to be the only thing left in the universe (Sounds like Raistlin almost...), and refuses any shard that might change his vision. Odium wants to be evil. Though the Shard itself may not be inherently evil, the current version of Odium is. Edited September 12, 2012 by Observer 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turos he/him Posted September 12, 2012 Report Share Posted September 12, 2012 (edited) That's the key then, the mortal's disposition. A Shard is only part of the bigger picture of the Power of Creation. Power isn't inherently morale or immorale. The actor using the power makes the choice on how it is used. And Plus for Raistlin mention xD Edited September 12, 2012 by Turos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Observer Posted September 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 12, 2012 Ah good, somebody remembers the good old DragonLance series Still, it makes me curious as to why Adonalsium had such a powerful aspect of hatred. Was there something to balance it, or did the hatred expand from something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straff Venture he/him Posted September 17, 2012 Report Share Posted September 17, 2012 Devotion is a tough call. Does being forced to love count? I agree. Even if you're not being forced to love its not always good. If you saw on the news when Kim Jong Il died you would have seen the crowds of thousands, mourning the death of their beloved leader. It is easy to assume that they are only doing this so they are not killed for lack of 'devotion', but people who have escaped from North Korea have said how that's how people genuinely feel because of the way they have been taught. So in some ways, devotion can be worse than say, Ruin or Odium. Devotion can just as well be deceit as it is love, so I wouldn't say it was necessarily a good shard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windrunner he/him Posted September 17, 2012 Report Share Posted September 17, 2012 I agree Straff. Devotion to an evil purpose is pretty bad too. It really just depends on how far you take it, just like every Shard we've seen so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Observer Posted September 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2012 Well put Straff. Ruin wasn't evil for destroying, because destruction is what it does. Odium, however, doesn't have to kill, and doesn't have to be evil. So I suppose m ealier assumption could be incorrect. Adonalsium didn't have to be evil, but the large amount of hatred does worry me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vikter Posted September 19, 2012 Report Share Posted September 19, 2012 Hate seems to be getting a pretty bad rep 'round these parts, for what reason I do not know. It can be a good, bad, or indifferent thing, just as all of the shards are if taken by themselves. Undirected hate is a bad thing, directed hate is a valuable tool. I, for example, hate to be late for work so I am always 30-45 minutes early, I also hate doing nothing so when at work I always find something to do. Because of that I got a raise and promotion, hate is good sometimes. All of the shards are neither good nor evil, they just are what they are. Any of them in excess or without proper balancing are flat out bad for you. Every emotion has a place and a time where they belong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glaring at the Survivor he/him Posted September 19, 2012 Report Share Posted September 19, 2012 Where are you guys getting this info. It's not in the book the Way of Kings, so where? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Observer Posted September 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2012 Where are you guys getting this info. It's not in the book the Way of Kings, so where? What info? Odium and the shards? We get that from epigraphs of all books, as well as Brandon interviews. Adonalsium? That's Way of Kings and Hero of Ages, as well as some interviews. @Vikter. The idea is that he's choosing to use his hate in a bad way. Ruin had his excuse of being a force of destruction, but Odium doesn't have to kill. Yet he does anyways, vying to be the only thing left in the world. That is what makes him evil. So, as I said before, Adonalsium didn't necessarily have to be evil for all its hatred, though it is still worrying how much it had... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king of nowhere Posted September 19, 2012 Report Share Posted September 19, 2012 I'm not sure if some shards are more powerful than others. I just assumed that they were all matched in raw powers, but they can do different things, and odium is the most dangerous because its powers are focused on personal destruction. I remember reading somewhere that rashek tried to kill his uncle when holding the power of preservation, but failed because preservation was not meant to destroy (he probably could have killed his uncle in a more indirect way if he applied to it). So we see a shard that is not capable of killing a single person, yet it was evenly matched with ruin for raw strenght. I assume with odium is the same concept, reversed. odium i as powerful as the other shards, but his powers are focused on killing. That makes him "more powerful" than other shards in the way that he is able to destroy them. One last point: his "brief" visit to Sel could have been brief by shardic time. Could have easily been several decades or even a few centuries and still count as brief for the timescale shards act. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Observer Posted September 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2012 I assume with odium is the same concept, reversed. odium is as powerful as the other shards, but his powers are focused on killing. That makes him "more powerful" than other shards in the way that he is able to destroy them. Odium is hatred, which is not necessarily killing. If anything, Ruin would be the supreme killing force, and the only reason Preservation could hold up under his assault was because he was self-preserving. We just don't know enough to brush off Odium's power as part of his intent. One last point: his "brief" visit to Sel could have been brief by shardic time. Could have easily been several decades or even a few centuries and still count as brief for the timescale shards act. As Sazed points out, minutes pass like hours to a shard. So by brief, Hoid either means in human time, which is not very long, or in Shardic time, which is even shorter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straff Venture he/him Posted September 20, 2012 Report Share Posted September 20, 2012 I'm not sure if some shards are more powerful than others. I just assumed that they were all matched in raw powers, but they can do different things, and odium is the most dangerous because its powers are focused on personal destruction. People are assuming at the moment that Odium's place as the most powerful is because he hasn't invested his power in many outlets. Aona and Skai had AonDor, the Dakhor symbols and Chayshan all stemming from them. The only power from Odium we know about is voidbinding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Observer Posted September 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 27, 2012 Well, Brandon just killed my theory's base. The idea of Adonalsium being shattered for a reason still stands, but Odium's supposed extra power no longer applies. Sadface. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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