Theory: How Gavilar got the Evil Sphere of Doom

[Argent he/him]

Of course there is no better evidence - since there is no evidence. But I would imagine meeting the king of Alethkar, or even a Brightlord, would've impressed Tien enough for the topic to come up in Kaladin's flashback chapters. Moreover, if the black sphere is core of a Voidbringing fabrial (or something along those lines), whoever created it would probably try not to lose it out in the wild, where anyone can find it. Those things are not exactly common. Of course, you could argue that this person could've been killed, or they really could've lost the sphere... but I think any one of those options is pushing the limits of plausibility. 

[Gloom he/him]

Nah, little kids are notorious for not mentioning important things to other people.

[Argent he/him]

Tien was excited about everything, however. He was a talker. 

[Oudeis he/him]

I just always assumed that he got it from the Parshendi. We know he made a huge deal about trading rights with the Parshendi, which everyone assumed was about Shards, but we've seen throughout the book that no one with a Shard would ever trade it away except for the most dire of circumstances. It must've been something else, and now here's this mysterious object that looks Void-ish he somehow has. Also, he suspected Szeth was from the Ghostbloods, which is a group we know are after Jasnah to stop her research into Voidbringers, who are apparently somehow related to the parshmen and Parshendi.

 

I know it's specious and it's not supported enough that I'll even call it a theory, it's just what I assume to be the case for now.

[Argent he/him]

Except the Parshendi then killed him for it. Also, interestingly, they don't seem to have given Szeth any instructions regarding the sphere - didn't he just hide it somewhere and move on with murdering people? If the Parshendi gave / traded the sphere to Gavilar, then had him killed for it, and then just hide it... wouldn't it have been easier to just hide it in the first place? 

 

Though, to be objective about it, I suppose they could've traded an inert voidsphere (I think I'll coin the term) a long time ago, and Gavilar (or, probably, the researches who are "close to creating new Shardblades") figured out a way to actually capture a spren in it. Which is what finally provoked the Parshendi.

[Oudeis he/him]

Also, interestingly, they don't seem to have given Szeth any instructions regarding the sphere - didn't he just hide it somewhere and move on with murdering people?

 

Good point. There is a ton we don't know, so I'm not willing to throw the idea out just yet, but that is a flaw. Perhaps they knew that Gavilar had learned of the voidspheres, but didn't realize he actually had one. Perhaps they don't care if he's got the one, they just want to protect the larger portion (like on Scadrial, it wouldn't necessarily have mattered if Ruin had gotten a bead or two of atium, they just needed to keep away the larger mass of it). Or maybe the two are unrelated. The Parshendi broke the treaty within hours of signing it. This whole thing could have been their plan. It FEELS like things are going how the Parshendi want them to.

 

For some reason, they want this combined war against the chasmfiends. Mr. Sanderson has said that there will be ecological impacts from the fact that no chasmfiend has pupated in the past five years. Maybe that's what they want. So they meet Gavilar, give him one voidsphere to tempt him into a treaty, expressly so they can murder him and break it, thereby drawing the Alethi army to the Shattered Plains, to gain their assistance in slaying the chasmfiends.

 

I don't know if that was their specific purpose, but the timeline was too quick. I definitely believe that the Parshendi wanted the treaty for the sole purpose of breaking it and manipulating Alethkar. I also think that the voidsphere is what Gavilar wanted favored trading status about. Speculation, admittedly.

[Gloom he/him]

I'm still skeptical. If the Voidsphere was the objective, then leaving it unaccounted for makes no sense. If this little bauble was worth getting into a war over, then why not at least attempt to retrieve it? I think the Parshendi had other, or at least additional motivations for having Galivar assassinated.

[Robot Aztec]

Maybe The parshendi have honor and they want the assassin in white because it shows he is coming for you so they think it is OK to go kill someone who you dont like but not OK to take his things because that would be stealing who knows what they think is dishonorable.

[Oudeis he/him]

I'm still skeptical. If the Voidsphere was the objective, then leaving it unaccounted for makes no sense. If this little bauble was worth getting into a war over, then why not at least attempt to retrieve it? I think the Parshendi had other, or at least additional motivations for having Galivar assassinated.

Sorry, Gloom... who/what are you replying to here?

[Gloom he/him]

I was referring to Galivar getting the the sphere from the Parshedi, which is altogether possible, and the theory that Galivar having the sphere was why they wanted him assassinated. If the sphere was of great import to the Parshendi, they should have at least made an attempt to recover it. If they didn't want Galivar to have the sphere, they should have prevented him from attaining it. I'm thinking that either the sphere was unimportant to the Parshedi, and that Galivar was a threat for a completely different reason, or that Galivar attained the sphere from a different source and the Parshendi felt threatened enough by it that they sought to have him assassinated.

[Argent he/him]

You know, here's something that feels off to me. Here's a quote from the prologue:

The king coughed. “You can tell . . . Thaidakar . . . that he’s too late. . . .”

“I don’t know who that is,” Szeth said, standing, his words slurring from his broken jaw. He held his hand to the side, resummoning his Shardblade.

The king frowned. “Then who . . . ? Restares? Sadeas? I never thought . . .”

“My masters are the Parshendi,” Szeth said. Ten heartbeats passed, and his Blade dropped into his hand, wet with condensation.

“The Parshendi? That makes no sense.” Gavilar coughed, hand quivering, reaching toward his chest and fumbling at a pocket. He pulled out a small crystalline sphere tied to a chain. “You must take this. They must not get it.”

So Gavilar tells Szeth he had expected this, assuming it was Thaidakar (and the Ghostbloods) who was behind the attack. When Szeth denies this, Gavilar continues guessing - Restares and Sadeas are his next guesses. I think all three of them are Brightlords Gavilar believes to be in with the Ghostbloods, but that's still besides the point. 

 

Only when Szeth claims to be sent by the Parshendi, then does Gavilar offer him the voidsphere. Szeth doesn't seem interested - or even aware of it - before that. If the Parshendi wanted Gavilar dead because of the sphere or something he did with it, wouldn't they want to get their hands on it? To use it, to protect it, to hide it, to control it? Szeth commands - to kill Gavilar and be seen doing it - don't seem to include anything about the sphere. So I don't think it was the reason Gavilar died.

 

To play the devil's avocado, it is also possible that Gavilar didn't want the Parshendi to get their hands on the sphere. So, for some reason, he decides that Szeth is completely trustworthy and on his side, and he gives him the voidsphere with instructions to keep it away from them - the Parshendi they had just spoken about. Maybe he was working under the assumption that unless he sends the sphere away with someone who is not a Parshendi, Szeth's masters will come and collect it from his corpse. It is linguistically possible, but I don't find it likely. Possible, but not likely.

[cem he/him]

Somewhat interesting tidbit. Restares is Amaram's flunky. He is actually the wonderful person who convinced Amaram to screw Kaladin big time.

 

“And when news got around camp?” Amaram said grimly. “That you’d killed the Shardbearer but I had the Shards? Nobody would believe that you’d given them up of your own free choice. Besides, son. You wouldn’t have let me keep them.” Amaram shook his head. “You’d have changed your mind. In a day or two, you’d have wanted the wealth and prestige—others would convince you of it. You’d have demanded that I return them to you. It took hours to decide, but Restares is right—this is what must be done. For the good of Alethkar.”

[Argent he/him]

That's what makes me believe he is a Brightlord and not some this party, or a Ghostblood guy (and nothing else).

[Oudeis he/him]

 the theory that Galivar having the sphere was why they wanted him assassinated. If the sphere was of great import to the Parshendi, they should have at least made an attempt to recover it. If they didn't want Galivar to have the sphere, they should have prevented him from attaining it.

 

My theory runs like this: Before they ever made the treaty, what they wanted was "a broken treaty with Alethkar". They wanted to summon the Alethi armies to the Shattered Plains, for whatever reason. We haven't seen it yet. The Alethi claim they are winning, but that's based entirely on "this is how many warriors we assume they have" and "this is how many warriors we believe we've killed". I think throughout the book the Alethi have proven themselves time and again to be less than objective in measurements, especially when it comes to competitions. Until we hear from an unbiased source or the Parshendi, I don't think they're losing as badly as the Alethi assume they are.

 

So. Let's say they have access to this voidsphere. Maybe it'd be bad if the Alethi got a ton of them, but if you had Scrooge McDuck's vault full of gold coins and used one of them to set a trap, how much effort would you put into getting that coin back? Would it be worth a single life to reclaim one thing your opponent doesn't know how to use and can't get more of? The Parshendi threw Szeth's oathstone away. They fled as he attacked Gavilar and didn't wait around for their assassin. Even if they suspected it'd be as easy as "he had the stone on him and offered it to his killer" it would still have required them to stick around in order to get the voidsphere back from Szeth.

 

So. My theory, somewhat simplified: The Parshendi gave Gavilar a single voidsphere which they had to spare to tempt him into a treaty, so they could break it and draw the Alethi army to the Shattered Plains. The timing is just off for their motives to be anything else. They waited until the treaty was signed and then instantly broke it. They wanted the situation of "we have a broken treaty".

 

Only when Szeth claims to be sent by the Parshendi, then does Gavilar offer him the voidsphere. Szeth doesn't seem interested - or even aware of it - before that. If the Parshendi wanted Gavilar dead because of the sphere or something he did with it, wouldn't they want to get their hands on it? To use it, to protect it, to hide it, to control it? Szeth commands - to kill Gavilar and be seen doing it - don't seem to include anything about the sphere. So I don't think it was the reason Gavilar died.

You raise an excellent point, and I truthfully do not have a good answer. The best I can come up with: Gavilar is as confused as we all are about why the Parshendi would want him dead. Regardless, he still fears a Ghostblood will get to his body first, and he'd rather the voidsphere go back to the Parshendi than that the Ghostbloods get it. Whatever Gavilar learned of the voidsphere, it was enough to make him trust his own murderers over the Ghostbloods.

 

... Wow. I just now realized I have not been taking the Ghostbloods seriously enough. "You, man-who-just-killed-me. I trust you more than I trust those guys."

[Argent he/him]

This is still in line with (most of) my theory Though I probably should've listed this scenario explicitly...

Edited October 19, 2013 by Argent

[darkanimereal1]

So Gavilar tells Szeth he had expected this, assuming it was Thaidakar (and the Ghostbloods) who was behind the attack. When Szeth denies this, Gavilar continues guessing - Restares and Sadeas are his next guesses. I think all three of them are Brightlords Gavilar believes to be in with the Ghostbloods, but that's still besides the point. 

 

Only when Szeth claims to be sent by the Parshendi, then does Gavilar offer him the voidsphere. Szeth doesn't seem interested - or even aware of it - before that. If the Parshendi wanted Gavilar dead because of the sphere or something he did with it, wouldn't they want to get their hands on it? To use it, to protect it, to hide it, to control it? Szeth commands - to kill Gavilar and be seen doing it - don't seem to include anything about the sphere. So I don't think it was the reason Gavilar died.

 

To play the devil's avocado, it is also possible that Gavilar didn't want the Parshendi to get their hands on the sphere. So, for some reason, he decides that Szeth is completely trustworthy and on his side, and he gives him the voidsphere with instructions to keep it away from them - the Parshendi they had just spoken about. Maybe he was working under the assumption that unless he sends the sphere away with someone who is not a Parshendi, Szeth's masters will come and collect it from his corpse. It is linguistically possible, but I don't find it likely. Possible, but not likely.

 

I think this is a great point. If the Parshendi have any interest in it, it would seem Szeth doesn't know.

 

On the other hand, I agree that it sounds like Gavilar is trying to keep the voidsphere from the Ghostbloods. We also know that the Ghostbloods have a keen interest in Jasnah and her soulcaster, and that they also (supposedly) had a soulcaster that they gave to Shallan's father (unless you go by the theory that soulcasting is genetic and her father was using a fake one, just like Jasnah). Either way, they have a keen interest in this, and it seems like Gavilar is trying to keep a major secret from them.

 

I also really like Darnum's idea that the Parshendi wanted "a broken treaty with Alethkar". It's what seems to make the most sense, although there may be more clues to this based on the first Interlude from WoR that Brandon did a reading from (it's been a while since I heard it, so I can't quite recall).

 

Also, on a random note (well, random given what I was just discussing), I think Robot Aztec has a point about the "infinite sides" thing. Mathematically, that's what a sphere is. Per Wikipedia:

 

 

The surface area of a sphere is:

Archimedes first derived this formual from the fact that the projection to the lateral surface of a circumscribed cylinder  is area-preserving; it equals the derivative of the formula for the volume with respect to r because the total volume inside a sphere of radius r can be thought of as the summation of the surface area of an infinite number of spherical shells of infinitesimal thickness concentrically stacked inside one another from radius 0 to radius r. At infinitesimal thickness the discrepancy between the inner and outer surface area of any given shell is infinitesimal, and the elemental volume at radius r is simply the product of the surface area at radius r and the infinitesimal thickness.

 

So, yeah, I think that's a decent point.

Edited October 16, 2013 by darkanimereal1

[Argent he/him]

Minor WoR spoiler ahead.

 

Eshonai's viewpoint chapter from Words of Radiance touches only briefly on the treaty. Her words - thoughts actually, I think - brush on how determined the Alethi are on killing her people. Then, as a follow up she's adds "but what wise would they do, we assassinated their king" or something to that effect. Which, to me, it's not a proof that it was really the Parshendi who commissioned Szeth; I think it was written in a way that didn't make it perfectly clear whether those are her thoughts, or she was looking at the situation the way an Alethi might. That, or it could've been a rogue Parshendi faction or something...

 

EDIT: I just noticed that my phone turned "rogue Parshendi faction" into "rigid Parshendi gain." I trusted you, phone! It took me a full minute to figure out what I had originally wanted to say...

Edited October 17, 2013 by Argent

[Oudeis he/him]

::fingers in ears:: LA LA LA NO SPOILER FOR WoR KTHNXBAI! Waiting for the full book to come out before I read select chapters.

[Argent he/him]

Oh, sorry about that. If it's any consolation, it's a very minor thing.

[Oudeis he/him]

Oh, sorry about that. If it's any consolation, it's a very minor thing.

 

It's cool, I read the first few words, realized it was about WoR, and skipped before I read anything.

[WeiryWriter he/him]

@Argent You should probably use the spoiler tag for that...

[Argent he/him]

@Argent You should probably use the spoiler tag for that...

 

I still think it's small enough that it doesn't require neither warning nor spoiler tag, but I added it. Also fixed some weird autosuggest my phone had inflicted me with.

[WeiryWriter he/him]

I still think it's small enough that it doesn't require neither warning nor spoiler tag, but I added it. Also fixed some weird autosuggest my phone had inflicted me with.

 

Spoilers are spoilers though.  I think we should respect the people who don't want to be spoiled, even accidentally.  Currently WoR spoilers are supposed to be in spoiler tags in the main Stormlight forum.

[darkanimereal1]

EDIT: I just noticed that my phone turned "rogue Parshendi faction" into "rigid Parshendi gain." I trusted you, phone! It took me a full minute to figure out what I had originally wanted to say...

 

Your phone also did this to your post on the last page:

 

This is still in love with (most of) my theory 

 

 

I think that's supposed to be "in line." I thought it was kind of cute, though.

[Argent he/him]

There ought to be a website for good autocorrects, not just the bad ones...