Soulcasting and Forgery

[Steel]

Has anyone noticed the similarities between Forgery and Soulcasting? They both involve the persuasion of an inanimate object. Could there be some connection?

[Witty Username]

My guess would be that they both work on the Cognitive aspect of the object - by changing the Cognitive aspect of the object there's a change in the Physical.

[Kurkistan]

My guess would be that they both work on the Cognitive aspect of the object - by changing the Cognitive aspect of the object there's a change in the Physical.

 

I doubt this, especially given how Forgery is the most "Spiritually related" magic we've yet seen.

[hoidhunter]

I've actually wondered this about forging and Aon Dor.  Both use specific symbols in order to produce the required effect.  Even a small deviation in the way the symbol is drawn can cause a drastically different effect.  

 

I also have to point out that there seems to be a hierarchy of Spiritual-Cognitive-Physical.  Doesn't the way something's spirit perceives itself have an impact on how it cognitively perceives itself...which in turn changes the physical?  (I thought I read a WoB about how stormlight healing works off of how the spirit of a person perceives them in ideal form)

[Oudeis]

I suppose I don't have much to back this up, but I've always thought that thinking of them as three discrete phenomena was a flawed model. I don't believe that Vin is nothing but her physical body, and that the cognitive and spiritual aspects were simply shadows. I see it all as one entity. Not like, I move my arm so that movement is reflected in my shadow, but my shadow is a distinct thing from myself. I see it more like muscle, bone and blood. You can talk about any one of the three individually, and some things will affect one and not the others, but they are clearly all one cohesive system. Changing one changes all, because they are all one thing, connected and dependent, part of a single entity, not side-by-side like three bottles on a shelf. Rather, like a cocktail with three ingredients. Within the glass there's technically rum, lime juice, and simple syrup, no more than physically mixed and technically separable, but together clearly making a single daquiri.

 

Just one man's opinion.

[Kurkistan]

@hoidhunter

 

While I agree that a general hierarchy can be sketched out of S->C->P, I don't think it's quite that... impactful, for lack of a better word. You need to throw in some magic to make things happen, otherwise Lopen wouldn't need Stormlight to grow his arm back. He always perceived himself as properly having that second arm, which is what enabled the healing, but nothing happened until he threw some Awesome-sauce on the fire.

 

Here's the WoB you're likely thinking of, btw. Not quite as direct as you seem to remember.

-If you'd like to see some analysis of it, though...

[hoidhunter]

@hoidhunter

 

While I agree that a general hierarchy can be sketched out of S->C->P, I don't think it's quite that... impactful, for lack of a better word. You need to throw in some magic to make things happen, otherwise Lopen wouldn't need Stormlight to grow his arm back. He always perceived himself as properly having that second arm, which is what enabled the healing, but nothing happened until he threw some Awesome-sauce on the fire.

 

Here's the WoB you're likely thinking of, btw. Not quite as direct as you seem to remember.

-If you'd like to see some analysis of it, though...

I have actually read your analysis already...kudos by the way...and thanks for supplying the WoB.  By the way...I found Forging to be an interesting magic system.  How could anyone in this world NOT learn how to do this?  All you need is a decent level of carving skill and a basic understanding of how the whole "history of an object" thing works and you can turn your crappy, abused, barely running, car that you purchased for $100 into one that is in top operational condition. (I am aware that this is a poor metaphor for the context of the story)

[Kurkistan]

Thanks for the kudos.

 

That is a good question regarding Forging; myself I'd guess cultural reasons and/or it being slightly harder than Shai's awesomeness would imply to even do such "simple" stamps, but that's just guessing. For all I know MaiPon is full of beautifully-running cars.

[hoidhunter]

Thanks for the kudos.

 

That is a good question regarding Forging; myself I'd guess cultural reasons and/or it being slightly harder than Shai's awesomeness would imply to even do such "simple" stamps, but that's just guessing. For all I know MaiPon is full of beautifully-running cars.

I do have to concede that there is obviously some taboo that surrounds the whole Forging thing in MaiPon.  We are also being given someone who is a master of the art as our only example of it's practice.  But still...allomancy and feruchemy are mostly genetic (even with the genes you still have to snap)...surgebinding requires forming a spiritual bond with a supernatural being...Elantrans just wake up that way...awakeners have to steal pieces of other peoples souls (sort of)...it seems to me that this is one of the few systems of magic that would be available to anyone who was willing to learn and practice.  (and maybe...buy a sick underfed horse and turn it into a strong healthy one...would have been a better example)