Let's kill a princess

[Vortaan he/him]

So the question I want to ask, and that it seems no one has made a thread on yet, is what Jasnah is actually doing that the Ghostbloods are trying to stop by killing her. The obvious answer, researching the Voidbringers, is kind of flawed, for three reasons.

1) Jasnah has made copious notes. Even if they could be sure to get all of them, the suspicious death of Brightness Jasnah Kholin would surely invoke some kind of investigation. Someone would probably write a biography about the famous heretic, and the work she spent her last days discovering would likely be brought up again in the biography. At most, they gain a few years.

2) Jasnah is the daughter of a king, the sister to the current one. You don't kill royalty lightly, because they know people with big big armies and short short tempers. So what is Jasnah doing that the Ghostbloods are willing to go to war against the most powerful (second most powerful?) war machine in the world to do it?

3) Shallan showing up actually makes either option one or two a more ridiculous reason to assassinate Jasnah. If Jasnah dies with a ward underhand, that ties another house to being interested in knowing how she died. Also, there is now a girl bright enough and persistent enough to impress Jasnah floating around, who might also get curious.

For these reasons I think that Jasnah's death is important to the Ghostbloods not for something she found out already, but for something her research is leading her to. I don't have as many ideas on what that is, but some suggestions:

1) The breaking of the Oathpact/location of the Honorblades. How they'd know that, I have no idea, but 4000 years is a long time to keep a secret.

2) Tanavast's death. Again, no idea how they know, but someone probably does besides Hoid and Dalinar.

3) The next Desolation is coming. I have a pet theory that the Ghostbloods and the storm wardens are connected somehow, and that the predictions of the highstorms are actually calling them someway. Seems a little far fetched though.

So that's my thoughts. What has Jasnah learned, will learn, or could learn that requires her to die now? I'd love to read some discussion on this.

[Inkthinker]

1) Maybe that's all the time they need. The poop is, it would seem, not far from the fan.

2) Don't get caught. And it seems likely that they have powerful friends to protect them from powerful enemies.

3) Shallan's a new wrinkle, but she's from a falling house of little consequence. Kill her too.

As to your second point, I think you might be right (that it's something she's found already), but that doesn't means she's realized it herself. Or she knows something, but she's keeping it to herself. Remember what Brandon says, "there's always another secret".

[Smidge]

I doubt they're trying to kill her for her research on the voidbringers - Kabsal doesn't learn from Shallan that she's researching them until fairly late in the book after he's already tried to get her to eat a lot of bread. It doesn't seem that they really know much about what she's researching so killing her to prevent her learning something seems a bit farfetched.

The Ars Arcanum bit about radiant powers was supposed to be an in world thing that Jasnah wrote, right? Perhaps research into the radiants got her killed. Maybe the ghostbloods even suspected that the big thing she was researching was the radiants.

Would Jasnah being killed while in a foreign kingdom cause any problems with the Alethi? Would fault or the failure to protect her fall to Taravangian? Could be some sort of way to start conflict or a war...

Or there's just stealing her soulcaster - since she wears it always it would be hard to get it from her while she's still alive, and killing her stops her coming after them for it or identifying them. Jasnah does suggest to Shallan that Kabsal will ask Shallan to steal the soulcaster, so it seems that people have tried to steal it before.

Plus there's the whole heretic with a soulcaster angle. Kabsal did seem to actually be an ardent and she could've just been killed to silence her for that. Or they knew her soulcaster was a fake and they were silencing her about revealing that.

[Aeshdan he/him]

I would guess that the Ghostbloods are worried about Jasnah poking around into ancient legends because she'll discover that the Hierarchs were not totally destroyed.

[Vortaan he/him]

But if that information is out there, why hasn't it been discovered already? Someone would probably notice after awhile that scholars who research ancient history and the Voidbringers end up dead.

[Aeshdan he/him]

Jasnah is no ordinary scholar. For one thing, the Ghostbloods obviously have agents in the ardentia, so both ardents and devout Vorins can much more easily be redirected, not to mention that they'd be much less likely to stumble across this in the first place. Jasnah's atheism does make her more likely to see this particular truth, even if it will blind her to others.

[Vortaan he/him]

Granted, but she can't be the only atheist in the world, just likely the most prominent one. That said, her order of scholars seem like people who would be able to discover this kind of stuff, if not easily than with some kind of inevitability.

[Aeshdan he/him]

Granted, but she can't be the only atheist in the world, just likely the most prominent one. That said, her order of scholars seem like people who would be able to discover this kind of stuff, if not easily than with some kind of inevitability.

Jasnah is an atheist, reasonably intelligent, a Veristatalian, and has the social rank to get anything she needs. That's got to be a pretty rare combanation.

[Aethling he/him]

Simply because she is a heretic, most of the world probably wouldn't really care if she was killed. A fairly large part would probably want to make the assassin a hero.

She does keep notes, but a fire would take care of most of them. Fire on a ship would be even better.

I have real doubts about where the high princes would go to war over the death of an unmarried, heretic sister of a relatively weak king. Dalinar, undoubtedly, but most of the others would probably just laugh at the idea. She doesn't even have the backing of a husband's family to go along with her own.

Any biography written about her would most likely be written by an an ardent or a female follower of the very religion that she has thrown away. Biographies of this sort rarely treat the subject in a good light. She would probably turn out th be the villain of her own murder. Imagine a Catholic priest writing a biography of Martin Luther or John Calvin at the height of the Reformation. Imagine a Puritan minister writing a biography of an accused witch during or shortly after the Salem Witch Trials. What about an Iranian Muslim cleric writing about the life of any Israeli Prime Minister? You might get lucky and have another heretic take up the challenge, but that would almost immediately invalidate the work in the eyes of many. Put aside the writer bias and just look at the sources they would be writing about her from. Her own notes are hardly inspiring except to another heretic. She is somewhat of a black sheep in her own family. Rumor an innuendo would rule even if she did have a semi-fair biographer.

[Tamzin Ashevai she/her]

I'm just going to jump in here without having read everything (albeit, I honor all commentary as valid) because I believe this is really all about Shadesmar. While Jasnah might be my favorite character for her beliefs relative to my own, I think that Shallan is far more important, specifically considering her fledgling ability to connect with Shadesmar and her heinous memory of killing her father with the use of a Shardblade. So much more is going on here than we know! I can hardly wait for the second installment of The Stormlight Archive!

[Vortaan he/him]

Actually... I hadn't considered the Shadesmar connection. The mere existence of Shadesmar probably throws some serious theological issues around. I might well kill Jasnah just because she knows about it. If that's the case, Shallan is probably in their sights too now.

[kari-no-sugata]

So the question I want to ask, and that it seems no one has made a thread on yet, is what Jasnah is actually doing that the Ghostbloods are trying to stop by killing her.

It could be something as simple as Jasnah knowing the Ghostbloods exist in the first place. She's certainly not the only one but being by herself and without any guards etc it makes her vulnerable. If you're a secret evil organisation, then staying secret would be important.

On a related note, the following occurred me: Jasnah was clearly meant to die by poisoning but Shallan was also clearly meant to survive. But Shallan's not stupid and nobody thinks she is - if she survives she'd almost be able to figure out who the poisoner was. Which would make her a big liability.

So either Kabsal has a stupid soft spot for Shallan... or they planned to use her to help cover up their hand in the murder. Eg drug/hypnotize Shallan into making her claim to be the killer. Given that Shallan's currently in hospital over a suspected suicide it would make the perfect timing.

[Aeshdan he/him]

On a related note, the following occurred me: Jasnah was clearly meant to die by poisoning but Shallan was also clearly meant to survive. But Shallan's not stupid and nobody thinks she is - if she survives she'd almost be able to figure out who the poisoner was. Which would make her a big liability.

So either Kabsal has a stupid soft spot for Shallan... or they planned to use her to help cover up their hand in the murder. Eg drug/hypnotize Shallan into making her claim to be the killer. Given that Shallan's currently in hospital over a suspected suicide it would make the perfect timing.

I think I have an even better explanation: When Kabsal spent all that time with Shallan, he wasn't just digging for information or trying to poison Jasnah, he was also sounding Shallan out for recruitment. Rightly or wrongly, he believed that Shallan could easily be persuaded to join the Ghostbloods, and that's why he left her alive. Can you imagine how much the Ghostbloods would like to have a natural Soulcaster? Not to mention that as Jasnah's ward, Shallan could probably get at all her notes and papers. Plus, I really do think Kabsal was a little bit in love with her.

[Vortaan he/him]

I think I have an even better explanation: When Kabsal spent all that time with Shallan, he wasn't just digging for information or trying to poison Jasnah, he was also sounding Shallan out for recruitment. Rightly or wrongly, he believed that Shallan could easily be persuaded to join the Ghostbloods, and that's why he left her alive. Can you imagine how much the Ghostbloods would like to have a natural Soulcaster? Not to mention that as Jasnah's ward, Shallan could probably get at all her notes and papers. Plus, I really do think Kabsal was a little bit in love with her.

Huh. That... is pretty good. So Kasbal's questions about faith, showing the Almighty is a test to see if Shallan is Ghostblood material? That would kind of indicate that he thought so, since he tried to feed her the transmuted antidote jam at the end. Next book will be very interesting to see if she is contacted by them again. I have a suspicion that either Sadeas or Amaram is a Ghostblood, so seeing if either of them contact her would be very interesting.

[Asha'man Logain]

The Ars Arcanum bit about radiant powers was supposed to be an in world thing that Jasnah wrote, right? Perhaps research into the radiants got her killed. Maybe the ghostbloods even suspected that the big thing she was researching was the radiants.

I seriously doubt the Ars Arcanum was written by Jasnah. I believe we have the Word of Brandon, that all the AAs were written by the same character. Also that they are 'in world'.

[MistSailer]

I seriously doubt the Ars Arcanum was written by Jasnah. I believe we have the Word of Brandon, that all the AAs were written by the same character. Also that they are 'in world'.

Ever since Brandon revealed that the AoL AA was written by Hoid, I've just assumed that any first person Ars Arcanums (not the Mistborn ones for example) are Hoidian. I think Jasnah would know A TON more than is detailed in the ars arcanum, wheras I assume Hoid has been on Roshar most recently for only a few months (as Wit)

As for why Jasnah needs to die. I agree that it's something she already knows. She also knows the danger, and probably why the danger. We learn at the end of WoK that she had the whole voidbringer thing figured out for a while. She clearly knows a lot more than that. And has deep understandings of many other things as well (Shadesmar) I haven't figured out, or even really had any real ideas about what is motivating the Ghostbloods, but whatever it is has to be related to the Final Desolation, and Jasnah, in her chain of research has come across huge things I assume. This puts the two at conflict. Again, no idea what that conflict actually is tho.

[Vortaan he/him]

You have me wondering if the Final Desolation could be a red herring in relation to the Ghostbloods. Maybe they are focused on something entirely different. Hunting down people who manifest KR abilities, for example? Although that doesn't explain why they would be endorsing Shallan's father.

[kari-no-sugata]

I think I have an even better explanation: When Kabsal spent all that time with Shallan, he wasn't just digging for information or trying to poison Jasnah, he was also sounding Shallan out for recruitment. Rightly or wrongly, he believed that Shallan could easily be persuaded to join the Ghostbloods, and that's why he left her alive. Can you imagine how much the Ghostbloods would like to have a natural Soulcaster? Not to mention that as Jasnah's ward, Shallan could probably get at all her notes and papers. Plus, I really do think Kabsal was a little bit in love with her.

There's no indication that the Ghostbloods know about Shallan's abilities though. It's possible they know something we dont of course, but unless her super memory is a big give-away it seems unlikely.

I dont know what Kabsal really thought of Shallan. We only see him through her eyes and she generally had a rosy-eyed view of him generally.

Still, you raise some good points. Shame we dont have (and wont have) annotations for this book.

[Zas678 he/him]

Ever since Brandon revealed that the AoL AA was written by Hoid, I've just assumed that any first person Ars Arcanums (not the Mistborn ones for example) are Hoidian. I think Jasnah would know A TON more than is detailed in the ars arcanum, wheras I assume Hoid has been on Roshar most recently for only a few months (as Wit)

Whoa, whoa whoa. Brandon never revealed that the AoL AA was written by Hoid. He said that it was written either by Hoid OR by a member of the Seventeenth Shard.

I don't remember what he said about the authors of the other Ars Arcanums. I think he said they were all written by the same person? I would assume that it is the receiver of the Letter, but the words about applicability in Alloy makes me doubt that. I bet that it's someone we haven't met yet, or someone we've only met in passing.

[Aeshdan he/him]

There's no indication that the Ghostbloods know about Shallan's abilities though. It's possible they know something we dont of course, but unless her super memory is a big give-away it seems unlikely.

I dont know what Kabsal really thought of Shallan. We only see him through her eyes and she generally had a rosy-eyed view of him generally.

Still, you raise some good points. Shame we dont have (and wont have) annotations for this book.

Actually, we will eventually.

[MistSailer]

Whoa, whoa whoa. Brandon never revealed that the AoL AA was written by Hoid. He said that it was written either by Hoid OR by a member of the Seventeenth Shard.

I don't remember what he said about the authors of the other Ars Arcanums. I think he said they were all written by the same person? I would assume that it is the receiver of the Letter, but the words about applicability in Alloy makes me doubt that. I bet that it's someone we haven't met yet, or someone we've only met in passing.

Urgh my bad, thought I saw that on here a while ago. I'm going to still believe it though haha. I just won't quote it as canon.

[kari-no-sugata]

Actually, we will eventually.

I just noticed Brandon's latest blog entry:

The final ALCATRAZ VERSUS THE EVIL LIBRARIANS annotation is up, and it covers the epilogue and everything else at the end of the book. This will be the last annotation posted for a while. I've written some for THE ALLOY OF LAW—but only for the middle chapters of the book, so my assistant can't start posting any until I get around to writing the others. It's also possible that I will write annotations for THE WAY OF KINGS as I gear up to write the second book . . . but that takes time, and I'm raring to just start writing the book, so I'm not sure annotations will happen soon. We'll see.

Difficult choice...

[name_here]

One other possibility is that the Ghostbloods wanted her dead just because she's a natural soulcaster and is therefore aware they exist. But I think the most likely possibility is that Jasnah is potentially a threat to whatever their Desolation-related plan is. It's hard to tell without knowing what that plan is, but Jasnah seems relatively unlikely to ally with a religiously motivated group unless they have a convincing plan. Also, they really didn't seem to be putting all that much effort into killing her; they sent a single Ardent with poison instead of numerous hired killers with knives and didn't even establish a solid background for him.

[Aeshdan he/him]

One other possibility is that the Ghostbloods wanted her dead just because she's a natural soulcaster and is therefore aware they exist. But I think the most likely possibility is that Jasnah is potentially a threat to whatever their Desolation-related plan is. It's hard to tell without knowing what that plan is, but Jasnah seems relatively unlikely to ally with a religiously motivated group unless they have a convincing plan. Also, they really didn't seem to be putting all that much effort into killing her; they sent a single Ardent with poison instead of numerous hired killers with knives and didn't even establish a solid background for him.

Come to think of it, do you suppose Kabsal could have been a feint? In other words, his assassination attempts weren't ever intended to actually succeed, but the Ghostbloods thought that making Jasnah think they were trying to kill her would somehow advance their plots?

Alternately, is it possible that Kabsal wasn't a Ghostblood and he was just given the tattoo by some other group in case he was caught? (i.e. to frame the Ghostbloods).

[Riddlesinthedark he/him]

I think I have an even better explanation: When Kabsal spent all that time with Shallan, he wasn't just digging for information or trying to poison Jasnah, he was also sounding Shallan out for recruitment. Rightly or wrongly, he believed that Shallan could easily be persuaded to join the Ghostbloods, and that's why he left her alive. Can you imagine how much the Ghostbloods would like to have a natural Soulcaster? Not to mention that as Jasnah's ward, Shallan could probably get at all her notes and papers. Plus, I really do think Kabsal was a little bit in love with her.

I think I agree, since not every villian is(or should be) some sort of amoral psychopath. Here a young man spent time with a pretty, funny young woman, and...

But as a serious question, how much technojumbo was going on with the poisons? I've never really studied them, but it seems like modern chemistry would show that such things lingering in the liver and cells. Seems like eventually you aren't going to put enough jam on, or have enough junk in your system to keel over anyway.

Come to think of it, do you suppose Kabsal could have been a feint? In other words, his assassination attempts weren't ever intended to actually succeed, but the Ghostbloods thought that making Jasnah think they were trying to kill her would somehow advance their plots?

Alternately, is it possible that Kabsal wasn't a Ghostblood and he was just given the tattoo by some other group in case he was caught? (i.e. to frame the Ghostbloods).

Interesting, also do we have a name for the group, ___* of Bridge 4 family was a member, who is looking for the KR? Might be many players to be revealed in a 10 book series.

So precious little that we do know at this point.

Huh. That... is pretty good. So Kasbal's questions about faith, showing the Almighty is a test to see if Shallan is Ghostblood material? That would kind of indicate that he thought so, since he tried to feed her the transmuted antidote jam at the end. Next book will be very interesting to see if she is contacted by them again. I have a suspicion that either Sadeas or Amaram is a Ghostblood, so seeing if either of them contact her would be very interesting.

Isn't there a contradiction/contraindication to this in one of the Kaladin flashbacks?

Edited August 22, 2012 by Windrunner
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