Creating Magic Systems

[Haradion Drogon]

Ok. I have been lurking for some time, but this is my first actual Post... So bear with me.

I have been attempting to right a novel for a large part of my life - of course I never seriously get into it, and abandon the project after a few months, before having a new (and totally different) idea. In four years, I have explored alchemists, sorcerers, underground-goblin-civilization, Nordic mythology, A Supernatural Disaster Novel (Imagine a day-after-tomorrow, but caused by Demons...)

Not necessarily in that order.

However, I have finally had an Idea that I have latched onto, that is taking hold. Weirdly, it is a Fantasy novel with some Romance elements. This is peculiar, because I have not read "ANY" Romance. At all. Ever.

But when I have an idea - it is like an itch. I have to keep scratching it, and my Idea is progressing well. I am outlining the novel this time (something that never really happened in any detail with any other ideas) totally, rather than attempting discovery writing.

Unfortunately, I have run into a serious obstacle. I have been designing the magic system of the novel - something called "Blood magic" The system operates on the medieval medical principle of rebalancing the four Humors, by bleeding to cure disease. In this case, a person inflicts a wound in a specific place on a person, and then applies their hand, which has a similar wound inflicted on the palm to the wound.

Symbolically, joining the two bloodstreams... It is similar to that "blood-brother" ritual you see in films...

The joining of the blood allows for the "leaching" of abilities from a person to the person casting the blood magic. The longer the join is held, the more powerful the leacher and the more proficient the person is in the skill leached cause different amount of the attribute to be leached. For example, a wound on the foot causes the wounded person to slow down, and the leacher to have increased speed for a while. The more speed taken, the slower the original person becomes and the faster the blood magician becomes. This same system is applied to other parts of the body, to allow for different things to be leached. The Temple, allows for memories and thoughts to be leached, the upper-arm leaches strength, and the hand leaches senses.

Unfortunately, I have run into a serious problem. When looking at the system, I notice the distinct similarities to Brandon Sanderson’s Feruchemy and Hemalugy magic systems. Very distinct Similarities.

Here lies my problem. The magic systems are too similar.

So this is my question. How do other writers stay Original in writing their magic systems without sounding to similar to other well known authors?

Also, any advice, tips, ideas or contributions to my current magic system on making it more unique would be welcomed.

Thank you all for your advice.

Edited June 19, 2012 by Haradion Drogon

[Aeshdan he/him]

Ok. I have been lurking for some time, but this is my first actual Post... So bear with me.

I have been attempting to right a novel for a large part of my life - of course I never seriously get into it, and abandon the project after a few months, before having a new (and totally different) idea. In four years, I have explored alchemists, sorcerers, underground-goblin-civilization, Nordic mythology, A Supernatural Disaster Novel (Imagine a day-after-tomorrow, but caused by Demons...)

Not necessarily in that order.

However, I have finally had an Idea that I have latched onto, that is taking hold. Weirdly, it is a Fantasy novel with some Romance elements. This is peculiar, because I have not read "ANY" Romance. At all. Ever.

But when I have an idea - it is like an itch. I have to keep scratching it, and my Idea is progressing well. I am outlining the novel this time (something that never really happened in any detail with any other ideas) totally, rather than attempting discovery writing.

Unfortunately, I have run into a serious obstacle. I have been designing the magic system of the novel - something called "Blood magic" The system operates on the medieval medical principle of rebalancing the four Humors, by bleeding to cure disease. In this case, a person inflicts a wound in a specific place on a person, and then applies their hand, which has a similar wound inflicted on the palm to the wound.

Symbolically, joining the two bloodstreams... It is similar to that "blood-brother" ritual you see in films...

The joining of the blood allows for the "leaching" of abilities from a person to the person casting the blood magic. The longer the join is held, the more powerful the leacher and the more proficient the person is in the skill leached cause different amount of the attribute to be leached. For example, a wound on the foot causes the wounded person to slow down, and the leacher to have increased speed for a while. The more speed taken, the slower the original person becomes and the faster the blood magician becomes. This same system is applied to other parts of the body, to allow for different things to be leached. The Temple, allows for memories and thoughts to be leached, the upper-arm leaches strength, and the hand leaches senses.

Unfortunately, I have run into a serious problem. When looking at the system, I notice the distinct similarities to Brandon Sanderson’s Feruchemy and Hemalugy magic systems. Very distinct Similarities.

Here lies my problem. The magic systems are too similar.

So this is my question. How do other writers stay Original in writing their magic systems without sounding to similar to other well known authors?

Also, any advice, tips, ideas or contributions to my current magic system on making it more unique would be welcomed.

Thank you all for your advice.

Two tips. First, don't worry about it too much. There are only a limited number of things magic can do, so a lot of magics tend to do the same thing. I think your magic is already different enough from the Metallic Arts that it will work fine.

Second, try coming up with a novel cost or limitation for your magic. Brandon points out that that's where the most creativity comes in.

[Haradion Drogon]

Thanks for those tips - I have created a cost/limitation to the system. the Magic only works within a radius of "the spire" a central location to the plot. the radius is slightley different per person, but it is usualy limited to a couple of miles, and the power weakens the farther away from the spire.

the only way to circumvent this cost (and allow the magic to be used in the other countries where the story takes place) is by usesing a blood ring (created at the cost of someones life) wich also inflicts intense pain on the user. Think of the spire as "linking" the power to a person, and the ring as "linking" to the same source, without any filters that woulod protect the person.

the result is that performing magic outside the spire is hard, and useing too much will kill you. While performing exceptionally powerful magic inside is possible, it will result in every magic user in the area being equaly powerful. Assuming there is more than one other, any dangerous magic is easily countered.

They are also completley neautralised by "Blood-Breakers" a type of magic users who can not cast magic themselves, but can drain it, storing it in amulets and staffs to prevent its use... They are employed to remove percieved curses from buildings, or neutralise magic users, to prevent them useing their abilities.

Edited June 20, 2012 by Haradion Drogon

[Aeshdan he/him]

Thanks for those tips - I have created a cost/limitation to the system. the Magic only works within a radius of "the spire" a central location to the plot. the radius is slightley different per person, but it is usualy limited to a couple of miles, and the power weakens the farther away from the spire.

the only way to circumvent this cost (and allow the magic to be used in the other countries where the story takes place) is by usesing a blood ring (created at the cost of someones life) wich also inflicts intense pain on the user. Think of the spire as "linking" the power to a person, and the ring as "linking" to the same source, without any filters that woulod protect the person.

the result is that performing magic outside the spire is hard, and useing too much will kill you. While performing exceptionally powerful magic inside is possible, it will result in every magic user in the area being equaly powerful. Assuming there is more than one other, any dangerous magic is easily countered.

They are also completley neautralised by "Blood-Breakers" a type of magic users who can not cast magic themselves, but can drain it, storing it in amulets and staffs to prevent its use... They are employed to remove percieved curses from buildings, or neutralise magic users, to prevent them useing their abilities.

Very good!

[Shivertongue he/him]

Thanks for those tips - I have created a cost/limitation to the system. the Magic only works within a radius of "the spire" a central location to the plot. the radius is slightley different per person, but it is usualy limited to a couple of miles, and the power weakens the farther away from the spire.

the only way to circumvent this cost (and allow the magic to be used in the other countries where the story takes place) is by usesing a blood ring (created at the cost of someones life) wich also inflicts intense pain on the user. Think of the spire as "linking" the power to a person, and the ring as "linking" to the same source, without any filters that woulod protect the person.

the result is that performing magic outside the spire is hard, and useing too much will kill you. While performing exceptionally powerful magic inside is possible, it will result in every magic user in the area being equaly powerful. Assuming there is more than one other, any dangerous magic is easily countered.

They are also completley neautralised by "Blood-Breakers" a type of magic users who can not cast magic themselves, but can drain it, storing it in amulets and staffs to prevent its use... They are employed to remove percieved curses from buildings, or neutralise magic users, to prevent them useing their abilities.

What happens with the magic store in the amulets and staffs? Can non-magical people use it to some degree?

[Haradion Drogon]

Bloodbreakers are capable of moveing it out of the staff into the air, resulting in wild unpredictable blasts of power before it disapates completley. A bloodwitch or warlock would also move out any power that was absorbed from him/her, but not others... Think of Magic haveing a specific frequency unique to each person. A Bloodbreaker can move any frequency, but not cast it. A bloodcaster can only move their own, but should they find a store bloodmagic, then they can re-aquire the power without haveing to remake any wounds... this is useful for spells wioch could kill the caster with the amount of injuries that would be inflicted upon a person. Further more, a bloodbreaker does not need to be within a radius of the spire, but does need physical contact with the vessel he is moveing the energy into and the source of energy he is takeing energy from.

I have also modified the system slighlty. Now instead of "Leaching" a skill or attribute from another person, the warlock or bloodwitch who uses the power puts cuts inthemselves, the power they bring forth directley proportional to the pain they damage they inflict upon themselves. This makes the art very risky, and damaging - useing the magic may grant you power - or save your friends - but comes at a freightening cost.

The Blood can be taken from one of nine places, and instead of drawing say trength from it, you can issue a command. Useing flames for eaxample with a couple of drops in on the arm, will warm something up. Useing it with a nasty cut or graze would light a candle, and a proper cut, draw with a weapon say, could counjure fire balls.

these commands can also be given to objects, say a door, to use the Open command, would open for that person. Useing flames on a object could make it radiate heat, like a grill... but could only be removed by a bloodbreaker.

I am also including a kinda soft magic system, called the Old Blood Magic, which will only be used by the bad guys a few times, selibatley left vauge, and involve the traditional idea of blood magic - ie rituals, sacrifices and demons... Cheerful things...

Command: | Body Part To be leached from:

Force | Head

Open | Mouth

Flames | Forearm

Shake/Burst | Foot

Ground | Thigh

Water | Ear

Bind/Hold | Hand

Flow | Belly

Heal Heart/Chest

Any thoughts or questions?

Edited June 21, 2012 by Haradion Drogon

[Shivertongue he/him]

Honestly, I liked the original version you had better. The way it seems to be shifting is making it seem more like standard magic, and it's making a bit less sense. I like the direct proportion thing - the more you cut, the stronger the results - but now it seems like any other blood magic. Slash your palm, throw a fireball, try not to get any blood in your mouth as you yawn from boredom.

Leeching was a really, really cool idea. It was a system with far more limits and far more potential for conflict. You worry that it seems to much like the Metallic Arts, but that matters little. It had enough of your own ideas in it to make it your own, and until you said something, I hadn't even thought of the resemblance to Hemalurgy, and I still don't see the similarities to Feruchemy. With Commands, however, the first thing I thought of was Awakening...

Also, on the commands... before, with Leeching, the power made more sense. Leech from the foot or another, you gain speed; arms from another, you gain strength; temple gives your memories. There was a direct correlation between the things you were doing, and the use of blood to do it made sense; establishing a direct connection between the humours in order to Leech from them. The revisions to the system lack this connection, and seems more centered around combat and causing damage.

Which brings me to my next point, which is not specifically inspired by you, but by - what I consider - a common mistake that I see in magic systems. Some people build them to be specifically about killing other people or causing massive amounts of damage. Wizards can throw fireballs and conjure storms and heal death, but they can't help bring in the harvest, or construct a new building. One of the reasons, I think, that Sanderson's magic systems seem as interesting as they do is because, even though we see Allomancy used for combat a lot, each of those powers has just as much, if not more use, outside of combat. When you can conjure fire, there is only a small number of things you can do with that flame, most of which involve throwing it at something so that it catches fire. When you enhance your strength, you could use that to punch somebody into a wall, but you can also use that strength to build a wall.

That's just my thoughts on it. Hope it made sense, and that it was helpful.

[Haradion Drogon]

It was very helpful. Since you like the previous system better, and it sounds like my other system is borowing elements from a sanderson book I have not read yet (Warbreaker?) I will propably go back to the Leaching system. You are right, it does make a bit more sense, although there was a relationship to the commands and the body part - It was linked to the I Ching hexagrams, and the 8 main ones - and the body parts linked to it. I was just googleing stuff, and it came up.

The problem, - without going to deep into the storyline - I have main character as weilding some pretty spectacular flames at one point. Its easily fixable - maybe have him amplfy his speed to become a whirl of blades and have the same affect. Thing is though that I want something to seperate bloodwitches from a common solider - and since there is a mjor seige in the plot, the military application of the magic is important.

The only problem, is that the scars that would come as a result of the "Flashy System" where kinda symbolic, of the lengths one would go to to obtain power (or defend oneself from it). Now, the magic has constant scarring of other people. I could have it so that you need to inflict identicle wounds one yourself to nick the power - but that would make most bloodthefts impracticle... eg speed.

Here is a kinda Ars Arcanum for my bloodmagic so far... I am open to suggestions for the final two bloodpoints and the powers that ccan be stolen from them... I was hopeing something flashy - that would isolate a bloodwitch/warlock from a normal swordsman. Any suggestions?

Edited June 21, 2012 by Haradion Drogon

[Shivertongue he/him]

Actually, I thought you already had to inflict an identical wound on yourself.... I suppose I read that wrong, then.

I think there has to be some way to link the two ideas together. They're already quite similar - perhaps a set that requires leeching from others, and a set that requires "leeching from yourself"? It might be a way to get flames still.

Overall, though, don't go with what some random - if awesome - person on a forum says. Write the story you want to write, with the characters and the setting and the magic that YOU want to write. I'm happy to give suggestions and critiques, but I would never say "No, you HAVE to do this!" If the I Ching system was exciting you more, then by all means, use it!

[Haradion Drogon]

The Blood leaching requires the joing of two cuts, but the cut on the "leacher" can be on any part of the body - it is only the person who is leached from that needs it in a specific place.

Actualy I have though Of a way to keep all of the scars. The High blood witches mantains their strength - and indeed their life - by leaching from other witches who in turn leach frm the lesser folk beneath them.

this would cause people to have more scars the lower in the "food chain" if you like - with civilians have a few, important people haveing less and apprentices haveing quite a lot...

I like where this is going - I find It is impossible to have good idea by yourself, you need to bounce them off people to listen and argue against them to get the best ideas.

Have you any thoughts on what the remianing two points could steal?

I am by the way, including a reference to a much softer variation of bloodmagic, that involves invocating ancient rituals, and an alternative - but since my main character will not be useing it to solve problems - indeed, it will present quite a problem when he encounters it - it should not matter much. It is there to give a kinda mystical appraoch to the system, but not commonley used.

Edited June 22, 2012 by Haradion Drogon

[Aeshdan he/him]

I would suggest that the shoulder could steal toughness (the leacher's body becomes more resistant to wounds and other damage via tougher skin, denser muscle, harder bone, and so on). No suggestions on the lower leg yet.

[Haradion Drogon]

Ooh! I love that - That has some pretty good ramifications, for weakening an opponent, and strengthenig yourself. I think That is a brilliant idea! I shall have the Shoulder leach toughness

Now All I need is something that can be leached from the lower leg, or else another body part... Any suggestions?

[ShadowLord_Lith he/him]

Hey I'm new too, and I think I may be able to help. Unless you've already accomplished your goal and finished your system. You see, I'm writing a novel, well series, too, and I thought that maybe the lower leg could steal, or maybe give someone else, a weakness, whether yours or theirs. It would be a strange twist don't you think? A power that enhances someone other than the blood witch? And I don't think many would see the practical applications in your world. What use is a power that heals/strengthens another while weakening oneself? Or vice-versa. What do you think?

Edited August 17, 2016 by ShadowLord_Lith

[Darkness Ascendant he/him]

......This was 4 years ago shadow lord XD, I think SIlvertongue is the only one still around.

But hey, if you want to keep it going, and add more to the system, go ahead.

 

 

[ShadowLord_Lith he/him]

Yeah... I noticed the time gap after I posted. I kinda, sorta, don't look at those date things very often.

well no going back now. enjoy the thoughts!

[Straw he/him]

Necro! This is is a very cool magic system.