Kaladins gonna fall in love with veil(spoilers)

[Guest]

Ok, now I recall the scene, but I don't remember any high-fives. I never said Adolin isn't hormonal by this point, I'd very surprised if he weren't (no credibility at all). I only say that he has some amazing self-control. Yet... But with him being unaccustomed to such things and having no experience whatsoever, he kind of reminds me of Susebron, and he caught up pretty quickly :ph34r:

 

I doubt Adolin is as clueless as Susebron in the matter....

 

 

Yup, I'm not surprised... Boromir is I think the most misunderstood character in LotR. When I first read the book (I was only 7, so it wasn't very valid opinion) I thought he was a jerk. Now, after 11 years and +- 8 rereads, I see him in a different light, much better one. He made mistakes but he wanted to do well for his people. Aragorn also wasn't too fair on him... Funny thing is that my favourite characters stayed exactly the same over the years, but for slightly different reason (as a kid I liked Merry and Pippin because they were funny, later I came to see them both as brave and determined characters who are also good role-models... but of course they're still funny too ).

 

You read LoTR as 7? Really    Did you understand anything? I read it at 13 and I missed about half of the stuff... Read it about 6 or 8 times during my teens years as well as I did not know there were other similar books... I was not aware fantasy was a literacy genre and my local library was of no help

 

Boromir has always been my favorite character. I was compelled by his dilemma to remain faithful to the mission while having to find a way to protect his city and his people. I love the hint of grey in him, which I thought was missing in the rest of the crew. There is also the fact I was not fond of the elves  and Aragorn annoyed my greatly as I thought the lost descendants of a king dead thousand of years ago had no business becoming king. I was seriously pissed (and slightly traumatized as other books I read at the time did not feature death ) and saddened. This is, of course, a very feeling tainted analysis of LoTR highly influenced by my perception as a young teenager. Our first impressions can sometimes be hard to get by.

 

Merry and Pippin were funny

 

 

Well, I see nothing wrong with talking about cats (I tend to do it quite much...) :ph34r:  I guess I'll have to take your words on this. I have exactly no experience with romantic relationships (I'm kind of hopeless like that ) so I'm willing to believe people who actually know what they're talking about. But still, personally I would think a person who starts to talk about poop on a date kind of strange But I guess it did work for those two... Surprisingly...

 

Well...... In my experience, talking about anything related to your "prospect's" mother tend to be a complete turn of Especially cats But it worked I mean, he married me Must have done something right. Husband is saying he really liked those cats.... They were pretty cats

 

You can't be hopeless at 18... Come on. You are waaaaaaaaaaaaay too young for that. Trust me. My love life was equally as hopeless at that age

 

I wouldn't recommend talking about poop to anyone on a first date, but you never know what may works. I think that as long as you are being yourself, you should be fine. Besides, it made for a hilarious read

 

 

...

 

Long time no see! Glad you pitch in, Kiat and I tend to ramble a lot

 

I think you make interesting points. It is true Dalinar's situation was critical and he was running out of options. I guess what bothers me is the fact he put an inexperienced man in charge of a large contingent of men and did not bother to follow up on his capacity to manage them. It is true Kaladin has proven himself to be resourceful in successfully managing to train one bridgemen unit. However, I think we all agree training one squad in one thing, training a 1000 men is another, but I would have still be fine by it is it had remained Kaladin's sole responsibility. Awarding him the controversial rank of Captain was dubious as well as his decision to let him join the king's personal caucus. Kaladin may have save his life against all odds, he still have not proven himself to be a worthy officer able to work within the command structure. Dalinar also completely disregarded the obvious implication of Kaladin's men in the attempt against Elhokar's life. This, was a mistake.

 

Bottom line is I fault Dalinar for putting a stranger without credential in a position where he has more authority then seasoned officers while falling to keep a proper track on him to make sure he is up to the task. Dalinar is too trusting and I believe he was too trusting with Kaladin. It end well, but it could have been another disaster.

 

I agree some surges look easier to learn then others and I guess this is were I have issues. I guess I feel more effort should be put into learning a new skill then a few training sessions at night. Shallan and Jasnah, for example, seem to have much more trouble mastering theirs then Kaladin and what we have seen of Lift so far.

[Botanica she/her]

[*]Mraize/Veil: My guilty pleasure ship, because I am such a Mraize fangirl. I've got a hunch that while the Ghostbloods are morally questionable, they're not as unequivocably "evil" as we originally believed. Mraize has found out her secret, but the fact that the newest Ghostblood recruit also happens to be an influential Knight Radiant in training and the betrothed of a Highprince's heir only makes her more valuable. As Shallan finds out more of the Ghostblood's side of things, she's caught in a conflict of loyalties between the Kholins and the Knights Radiant and Mraize and the Ghostbloods. She starts to see her two identities as more and more separate, allowing her to justify the increasing contradictions in her actions. While Shallan is betrothed and loyal to Adolin, Veil is more of a wild card, and Mraize is oh so fond of his new recruit.

I'm not even going to try to justify that last ship, just leave me here in my pile of shipping garbage and allow me to roll around in this relationship trash. It is every kind of guilty pleasure kind of ship and I don't even care. Renarin/Veil Shallarin shipping is my jam though. Man I love it so much.

WOW I think I'm the only one who secretly wishes this ship to be true!!! Upvoted! There are just so many Shallan ships spinning in my head, and Mraize sounds like an interesting option. Though I doubt the possibility, at least man can hope =)

[FeatherWriter she/her]

WOW I think I'm the only one who secretly wishes this ship to be true!!! Upvoted! There are just so many Shallan ships spinning in my head, and Mraize sounds like an interesting option. Though I doubt the possibility, at least man can hope =)

 

*High fives Botanica* One of these days I will probably cave and write Shallan/Mraize fic, but that would have to be some time when I'm not ridiculously busy, which is never. I love those kinds of ships with a dark twist to it, and I love Mraize to death. He's exactly the kind of vilianous character I love to fall for. (So why not have Shallan fall for him too, huh? Hehehe...)

 

Nice one, but I don't think that Kaladin would actually see something familiar in Veil. But Shallan would struggle to make sure she does nothing to catch his suspicions about her double identity...

 

I think Adolin would immediately be suspicious of Veil as soon as he met her. He would sense something is off with her. He's more likely than Kaladin to see something familiar in her. I'm not convinced he would start falling for Veil, but he would make a connection that Veil acts/speaks a bit like Shallan.

 

Oh, I love this one. I want this to happen - Renarin finding out Shallan's secret. He would propably try to tell someone, maybe Adolin, but he would be dismissed. Then he could confront Shallan and she would beg him not to reveal her secret, explaining why exactly she must keep doing this... That's actually what I think Truthwatchers do - they find out what others try to hide.

 

While I have troubles seeing this relationship work out anyhow, I agree with the otehr things you mentioned here. The conflict of loyalities, Shallan and Veil becoming more separate... That's very interesting. And yet I don't see Mraize as such kind of person...

 

Overall, Feather, very interesting ideas Some of them I'd really love to see in canon

 

Yeah the point of most of those ships wasn't necessarily "ooh I think this should happen" so much as just trying out the different ships to see what interesting things might happen, some obviously more plausible than others. Ships are a little bit like clothes in that regard. Sometimes you just want to grab everything off the rack and take them to the dressing room to see what they look like.

 

Sometimes it just doesn't really work at all, like Kalasnah (Kaladin/Jasnah) shipping, for me. Or maybe there's something in there that's cute but I probably wouldn't spend money on it, which would be something like Shadolin (Adolin/Shallan). Or maybe it fits okay, but it's just totally unintresting to look at, like Shalladin (Kaladin/Shallan). And sometimes it's a perfect fit and you want to wear it every day and show it to every single one of your friends, like Shallarin (Renarin/Shallan) for me. Maybe there's a friend who has worn a certain kind of shirt for years and swears up and down that it's the best shirt ever and you should totally get one, but you've never gotten what they see in it... and then they loan it to you and you try it on and -- surprise -- it's actually wonderful and you feel silly for never seeing it before. That's Kalarin for me (Kaladin/Renarin). And other times you're not even shopping but you walk by a window and see something and it's the most gorgeous thing you've ever seen and you have to have one right now it is the greatest thing ever suddenly. That would be what Words of Radiance did to Kadolin (Kaladin/Adolin) for me.

 

Sometimes clothes and ships come in different colors and one color might me more appealing than another. So while Kaladin/Veil and Kaladin/Shallan are technically the same ship, they've got a different feel and a different situation. Renarin/Shallan before and after Words of Radiance are very different ships, but I love them both for different reasons. In some ways that Shallarin ship feels like a beloved warm sweater that got a big tear down the side and now I've gotta try to stitch it back together and salvage what I can.

 

And sometimes you try something on and you know you would never actually wear it out of the store but you grab it off the rack and man it's a lot of fun to try on in the dressing room and maybe show off to your few close friends who are with you there. That's something like the Mraize/Shallan ship for me. It's that little black dress that's way too risqué for me to purchase, but there's no harm in wearing it for a little bit, right? That fun little guilty pleasure ship that I love.

 

And of course, sometimes there is that bright neon orange leather jacket that seriously no one in their right mind would ever think looked good, but you're in a fun mood and decide you wanna try it on just to see how terrible it really is. That would be crack shipping and oh Harmony is crack shipping fun. And sometimes you go into a ship well aware of how absurd it is and not thinking you'll find anything in there worthwhile at all, but when you start tossing around possibilities, there's something interesting about it after all. (Ask Fruity about her Rashek/Ruin ship sometime if you want a crack ship turned real ship. Or ask Shroom about the Vin/Human ship if you want a crack ship that will always and forever be a crack ship.)

 

...I don't know why I just spent the last half hour typing up a clothes shopping/shipping analogy in this thread, but I guess its done now and I'm actually kinda glad I did. That was really fun.

[Kyats Rani she/her]

I doubt Adolin is as clueless as Susebron in the matter....

 

Of course it can't be that bad It's just that Shallan is kind of doing to Adolin what Siri did to Susebron (but in a smaller measure).

 

 

You read LoTR as 7? Really    Did you understand anything? I read it at 13 and I missed about half of the stuff... Read it about 6 or 8 times during my teens years as well as I did not know there were other similar books... I was not aware fantasy was a literacy genre and my local library was of no help

 

Boromir has always been my favorite character. I was compelled by his dilemma to remain faithful to the mission while having to find a way to protect his city and his people. I love the hint of grey in him, which I thought was missing in the rest of the crew. There is also the fact I was not fond of the elves  and Aragorn annoyed my greatly as I thought the lost descendants of a king dead thousand of years ago had no business becoming king. I was seriously pissed (and slightly traumatized as other books I read at the time did not feature death ) and saddened. This is, of course, a very feeling tainted analysis of LoTR highly influenced by my perception as a young teenager. Our first impressions can sometimes be hard to get by.

 

Merry and Pippin were funny

 

Yup, my parents gave it to me. And the Witcher when I was something around 11... I don't know if you have read Witcher or not, but let's just say that there's something happening on the very first page that isn't exactly fit for a child (and I'm not talking about gore )... Though my parents saw nothing wrong in letting me read whatever I wanted. And I wanted to read the same books as they did I picked up LotR because it looked really pretty on the shelf And then I decided I like it and asked if there are other similiar books. Fortunately there were and my parents like them as well

 

I liked the elves, but the ones from the Hobbit not from LotR. Wood Elves were much funnier in the book But still hobbits and Rohirrim rule for me... With Aragorn I was ok, but well, I've always passionately hated Arwen :ph34r:

 

 

Well...... In my experience, talking about anything related to your "prospect's" mother tend to be a complete turn of Especially cats But it worked I mean, he married me Must have done something right. Husband is saying he really liked those cats.... They were pretty cats

 

You can't be hopeless at 18... Come on. You are waaaaaaaaaaaaay too young for that. Trust me. My love life was equally as hopeless at that age

 

I wouldn't recommend talking about poop to anyone on a first date, but you never know what may works. I think that as long as you are being yourself, you should be fine. Besides, it made for a hilarious read

 

So you say there's still hope for me? Yay

 

Cats are actually cool, I have two of them and I love them so much that I miss them more than my parents when I'm away :ph34r: Mostly because I can talk with my parents over the phone...

 

 

...

 

Well, that's definitely a nice way to put this... I guess you're right. But for me clothes divide into 3 groups - the ones that I find horrible and refuse to look at, the ones that are "not cool enough to spend money on" and the ones I like and I'm ready to pay whatever it takes if I have money. And additional group called "the clothes I'd dream to have but I can't have them in reality" (the perfect clothes I imagine for myself). And I guess same goes for shipping Ones I hate, ones I'm okay with but doesn't support, ones that I wish to happen and ones in which I imagine a perfect (in my opinion) person for a given character...

 

Mraize and Shallan doesn't seem too possible but that would be interesting to see As for what you said about crack pairings - I assume they're from Mistborn, right? By now I cannot even understand them because I'm only around the half of the first Mistborn book

[Pathfinder]

LOL, I have had a VERY long string of VERY bad relationships till I met my girlfriend, and I am 30 (and I am told I am still very young). You have plenty of time 

[Guest]

Of course it can't be that bad It's just that Shallan is kind of doing to Adolin what Siri did to Susebron (but in a smaller measure).

 

Hmmm... I have been wondering how far Brandon will be willing to push these two. So far, Shallan has quickly moved their relationship to first base, twice. I wonder if she'll think she needs to move further down the bases to keep his attention focus on her. Not that I expect him to go look elsewhere, but she may think the contrary. I think she is still in the mindset she has to play at being somebody with him.

 

 

Yup, my parents gave it to me. And the Witcher when I was something around 11... I don't know if you have read Witcher or not, but let's just say that there's something happening on the very first page that isn't exactly fit for a child (and I'm not talking about gore )... Though my parents saw nothing wrong in letting me read whatever I wanted. And I wanted to read the same books as they did I picked up LotR because it looked really pretty on the shelf And then I decided I like it and asked if there are other similiar books. Fortunately there were and my parents like them as well

 

I liked the elves, but the ones from the Hobbit not from LotR. Wood Elves were much funnier in the book But still hobbits and Rohirrim rule for me... With Aragorn I was ok, but well, I've always passionately hated Arwen :ph34r:

 

It's just LoTR is far above the reading capacity of most child this age... Typical 7 years old kids would read books with one sentence per page and an explanatory drawing to illustrate it. When I initially read the book, I thought the elves were to solemn and goody-doer. I was not found of Aragorn as he seemed to dignified and perfect.

 

I didn't read the Witcher, but I started reading adult books at 10-11. My favorite one, at the time, had quite a few explicit scenes and I am not talking gore either I didn't really understand what I was reading

 

My mother read Danielle Steel and my father read the paper

 

 

So you say there's still hope for me? Yay

 

Of course there is , get that out of your head immediately     Why is it we bear such a fatalistic view of things when we are young (I used to be such a drama queen )? Just because you haven't found someone just yet does not mean you never will. You are not unlovable or undesirable or any un-characteristics your brain saw fit to invent just to justify your lack of experience in the matter. There is no rule that stipulates at which age someone is supposed enter within a romantic relationship (and looking down at my kids, I'd say the older, the better  ). You are a smart person. You'll find an equally smart person that will appreciate you for the individual that you are. From my personal experience, things rarely happen how you planned them to, but it does not mean they won't happen. It just that life has a way to twist things around...

 

Besides, I know MANY people with close to zero romantic relationship experience while entering their twenties. All may have felt hopeless at the time (I sure thought I was hopeless back then) and yet all ended up finding someone. All have happy life now and a bunch of cute kids.

 

 

Mraize and Shallan doesn't seem too possible but that would be interesting to see As for what you said about crack pairings - I assume they're from Mistborn, right? By now I cannot even understand them because I'm only around the half of the first Mistborn book

 

Personally, I do not like ships having close to zero chances of happening or ones that deforms too much the personality of one character to make them fit. Shallan is to enter several apprenticeships in her life and I think Mraize may be one of them. She is an adventurous girl and I doubt she'll settle for Adolin for the next 8 books just yet even if I think they'll end up together, ultimately. This ship may not be as far-fetched as it initially seems, which is why I think it interesting.

 

 

LOL, I have had a VERY long string of VERY bad relationships till I met my girlfriend, and I am 30 (and I am told I am still very young). You have plenty of time 

 

30s ROCK This is my new motto. Sincerely, this is the best decade ever  Teens are so boring and 20s are so overrated. To think I once believed being thirty was the equivalent of old age

[Kyats Rani she/her]

Hmmm... I have been wondering how far Brandon will be willing to push these two. So far, Shallan has quickly moved their relationship to first base, twice. I wonder if she'll think she needs to move further down the bases to keep his attention focus on her. Not that I expect him to go look elsewhere, but she may think the contrary. I think she is still in the mindset she has to play at being somebody with him.

 

That depends on whether or not she will focus on trying to keep him... Now she doesn't need marriage to Adolin to protect her family - she's powerful enough herself (as a Radiant) and her brothers ar apparently safe (I don't think Mraize lied about that one...). I think she will rather focus on things she deems more important (like Ghostbloods or the Voidbringers).

 

 

It's just LoTR is far above the reading capacity of most child this age... Typical 7 years old kids would read books with one sentence per page and an explanatory drawing to illustrate it. When I initially read the book, I thought the elves were to solemn and goody-doer. I was not found of Aragorn as he seemed to dignified and perfect.

 

I didn't read the Witcher, but I started reading adult books at 10-11. My favorite one, at the time, had quite a few explicit scenes and I am not talking gore either I didn't really understand what I was reading

 

My mother read Danielle Steel and my father read the paper

I don't know... I was past books with one sentence per page by the time I was 4...  I guess I was a little bookish geek When other kids played I was reading books because I liked too :ph34r: Actually, my grandmother still tells at every family gathering the same story of how I, when I was 3, went to a bank with her and started to read aloud the words written on the glass ("Cash 4") without being really taught how to read (at least no more than any other kid is taught at this age). After that my mom started to teach me how to read properly since I've already started... I know, I was a very strange kid :ph34r:

 

 

Of course there is , get that out of your head immediately     Why is it we bear such a fatalistic view of things when we are young (I used to be such a drama queen )? Just because you haven't found someone just yet does not mean you never will. You are not unlovable or undesirable or any un-characteristics your brain saw fit to invent just to justify your lack of experience in the matter. There is no rule that stipulates at which age someone is supposed enter within a romantic relationship (and looking down at my kids, I'd say the older, the better  ). You are a smart person. You'll find an equally smart person that will appreciate you for the individual that you are. From my personal experience, things rarely happen how you planned them to, but it does not mean they won't happen. It just that life has a way to twist things around...

 

Besides, I know MANY people with close to zero romantic relationship experience while entering their twenties. All may have felt hopeless at the time (I sure thought I was hopeless back then) and yet all ended up finding someone. All have happy life now and a bunch of cute kids.

Blame the majority of the society... Most girls I know (even some a few years younger than me) have already been in at least one relationship, some even more... It's thought to be perfectly normal, people like me are those who are not normal   At least among people I know from school or university

 

 

Personally, I do not like ships having close to zero chances of happening or ones that deforms too much the personality of one character to make them fit. Shallan is to enter several apprenticeships in her life and I think Mraize may be one of them. She is an adventurous girl and I doubt she'll settle for Adolin for the next 8 books just yet even if I think they'll end up together, ultimately. This ship may not be as far-fetched as it initially seems, which is why I think it interesting.

I thought one of her apprenticeships will be Iyatil... No, she won't settle down (for Adolin or anyone for that matter) anytime soon as she would consider this a violation of her freedom. One day she will learn, though Well, that would be certainly interesting to see something between Shallan and Mraize but by now I don't see anything hinting towards such possibility (but that may change with the next book...).

[Guest]

That depends on whether or not she will focus on trying to keep him... Now she doesn't need marriage to Adolin to protect her family - she's powerful enough herself (as a Radiant) and her brothers ar apparently safe (I don't think Mraize lied about that one...). I think she will rather focus on things she deems more important (like Ghostbloods or the Voidbringers).

 

I know. This is the most likely scenario. However, there is a very silly part of me that actually wanted to see them get down to it

 

 

I don't know... I was past books with one sentence per page by the time I was 4...  I guess I was a little bookish geek When other kids played I was reading books because I liked too :ph34r: Actually, my grandmother still tells at every family gathering the same story of how I, when I was 3, went to a bank with her and started to read aloud the words written on the glass ("Cash 4") without being really taught how to read (at least no more than any other kid is taught at this age). After that my mom started to teach me how to read properly since I've already started... I know, I was a very strange kid :ph34r:

 

Reading at the age of 4 is not usual, not unheard of, but truth is majority of kids are not ready to master reading at that age. My 4 years old is certainly not ready to read by herself just yet. She knows most of her letters, but she has not manage to process the link between them and sounds. For example, she knows all the letters in her name, but she does not put them in the right order.

 

 

Blame the majority of the society... Most girls I know (even some a few years younger than me) have already been in at least one relationship, some even more... It's thought to be perfectly normal, people like me are those who are not normal   At least among people I know from school or university

 

I cannot believe they still tell this lie.... This the most utter unbelievably huge piece of crap. There are many many young people of 18-20 years of age that never had a relationship before, but they don't usually scream it on the roofs... Now that I am an old dinosaur , you would be surprised the amount of people I meet that admit not having dated until their twenties... Gee, where were they 15 years ago? They must have been hiding or lying , I dunno.

 

I hate word "normal". It brands us into specific placeholders without taking our own individuality into consideration. The desire to conform ourselves to what we believe is "the normality" only leads us to evade from true self. Take Shallan for example. Upon meeting Adolin one of her first instinct is to wonder if she should alter her appearance to better embrace the Aletki "normality". She notices the other brighladies wear their hair in braids, so she thinks Adolin would probably prefer it if she adopts the hairstyle. She even considers using lightweaving to artificially enhance her boobs as bigger ones may please him better........ She also does her best to behave how she thinks he not only expect her to behave, but probably wants her to.

 

Storm she was wrong. For one, Adolin thinks she is beautiful just as she is. For second, he actually likes her louse tongue. Her natural self drives him around by the tip of the nose and the more she does it, the more he crushes on her. Who would have thought that, after dating a regiment of pretty but vapid girls, the Don Juan of Alethkar would fall for a strong opinionated and outspoken red haired girl?

 

Bottom line is we should never dwell too much into what we think is expected of us and concentrate on how we truly are.

 

 

I thought one of her apprenticeships will be Iyatil... No, she won't settle down (for Adolin or anyone for that matter) anytime soon as she would consider this a violation of her freedom. One day she will learn, though Well, that would be certainly interesting to see something between Shallan and Mraize but by now I don't see anything hinting towards such possibility (but that may change with the next book...).

 

I think it is a fair bet to think Shallan may need to experiment before settling herself down. Adolin seemed to have move in a place in his life where he truly wants a stable relationship. Shallan may not be there yet.

[Kyats Rani she/her]

I know. This is the most likely scenario. However, there is a very silly part of me that actually wanted to see them get down to it

 

Well, sooner or later we just may see this And please, let it be from Adolin's PoV... :ph34r:

 

 

Reading at the age of 4 is not usual, not unheard of, but truth is majority of kids are not ready to master reading at that age. My 4 years old is certainly not ready to read by herself just yet. She knows most of her letters, but she has not manage to process the link between them and sounds. For example, she knows all the letters in her name, but she does not put them in the right order.

 

Well, people are different, even (or maybe especially) kids. I was reading rather well when I was 4 but none of my friends or other people I know did. On the other hand I always had an awful hand-eye coordination and didn't manage to learn how to properly throw a ball before I was 6 And I still can't ride a bike :ph34r:

 

 

I cannot believe they still tell this lie.... This the most utter unbelievably huge piece of crap. There are many many young people of 18-20 years of age that never had a relationship before, but they don't usually scream it on the roofs... Now that I am an old dinosaur , you would be surprised the amount of people I meet that admit not having dated until their twenties... Gee, where were they 15 years ago? They must have been hiding or lying , I dunno.

 

I hate word "normal". It brands us into specific placeholders without taking our own individuality into consideration. The desire to conform ourselves to what we believe is "the normality" only leads us to evade from true self. Take Shallan for example. Upon meeting Adolin one of her first instinct is to wonder if she should alter her appearance to better embrace the Aletki "normality". She notices the other brighladies wear their hair in braids, so she thinks Adolin would probably prefer it if she adopts the hairstyle. She even considers using lightweaving to artificially enhance her boobs as bigger ones may please him better........ She also does her best to behave how she thinks he not only expect her to behave, but probably wants her to.

 

Storm she was wrong. For one, Adolin thinks she is beautiful just as she is. For second, he actually likes her louse tongue. Her natural self drives him around by the tip of the nose and the more she does it, the more he crushes on her. Who would have thought that, after dating a regiment of pretty but vapid girls, the Don Juan of Alethkar would fall for a strong opinionated and outspoken red haired girl?

 

Bottom line is we should never dwell too much into what we think is expected of us and concentrate on how we truly are.

 

Well, that's usually how it is... As for Shallan, it worked well for her to be natural. What Adolin seems to really hate are lies and tricks. Maybe he would fall for "enhanced" version of Shallan, but as soon as he learned the truth he would feel betrayed and maybe even leave her.

 

 

I think it is a fair bet to think Shallan may need to experiment before settling herself down. Adolin seemed to have move in a place in his life where he truly wants a stable relationship. Shallan may not be there yet.

 

Shallan is definitely not there yet. She has been sheltered for most of her life so she never had a chance to try. Now she has this chance and she's going to seize it. She needs more character development to realize that willing commitment (like love) is not a prison.

[AerionBFII he/him]

I originally thought they would bump into each other and something like this would happen but i prefer if they stayed friends.

Unlikely Kal and Veil would meet now they have split across the continent. 

[tbone5711 he/him]

Here's my question.  Seeing as how Shallan makes her disguises and Lightweavings utilizing Stormlight, would these deceive another Radiant?  I mean, could Kaladin "inhale" her disguise?  As far as I know, we have not seen her use her Lightweaving in another Radiant's presence have we?  She didn't know how to when she was with Jasnah, right?

[Pathfinder]

Here's my question.  Seeing as how Shallan makes her disguises and Lightweavings utilizing Stormlight, would these deceive another Radiant?  I mean, could Kaladin "inhale" her disguise?  As far as I know, we have not seen her use her Lightweaving in another Radiant's presence have we?  She didn't know how to when she was with Jasnah, right?

although i cannot state with absolute veracity, I think Kal could. I would have to look up and qoute the scene, but I do recall Kal doing that to Szeth, though Szeth was wielding an honorblade which is inefficient in stormlight use, so might have made it harder to hold it to himself. 

[hoser he/him]

Here's my question.  Seeing as how Shallan makes her disguises and Lightweavings utilizing Stormlight, would these deceive another Radiant?  I mean, could Kaladin "inhale" her disguise?  As far as I know, we have not seen her use her Lightweaving in another Radiant's presence have we?  She didn't know how to when she was with Jasnah, right?

 

 

although i cannot state with absolute veracity, I think Kal could. I would have to look up and qoute the scene, but I do recall Kal doing that to Szeth, though Szeth was wielding an honorblade which is inefficient in stormlight use, so might have made it harder to hold it to himself. 

I think Kaladin would not be able to, as invested objects resist other investiture.  An invested person (Shallan) would be resistant to Kaladin's investiture, so he would have to be much stronger in investiture to nullify hers.  This is similar to why Szeth could not affect people in Shardplate. 

I think Pathfinder is referring to when Kaladin is falling with Szeth in their first battle.  I believe Kaladin draws stormlight from the spheres that Szeth is carrying, not Szeth himself. 

The interesting question for me is whether Kaladin could detect the use of investiture.  Certainly Nale could detect when Lift was invested.  Kaladin didn't detect Shallan's investiture when she first arrived at the meeting w/the king and highprinces, nor when she uses it to lift him into their highstorm shelter.  In one case he was not as advanced as a Radiant and in the other he was effectively not a Radiant.  It would be interesting to see what would happen currently. 

[tbone5711 he/him]

I think Kaladin would not be able to, as invested objects resist other investiture.  An invested person (Shallan) would be resistant to Kaladin's investiture, so he would have to be much stronger in investiture to nullify hers.  This is similar to why Szeth could not affect people in Shardplate. 

I think Pathfinder is referring to when Kaladin is falling with Szeth in their first battle.  I believe Kaladin draws stormlight from the spheres that Szeth is carrying, not Szeth himself. 

The interesting question for me is whether Kaladin could detect the use of investiture.  Certainly Nale could detect when Lift was invested.  Kaladin didn't detect Shallan's investiture when she first arrived at the meeting w/the king and highprinces, nor when she uses it to lift him into their highstorm shelter.  In one case he was not as advanced as a Radiant and in the other he was effectively not a Radiant.  It would be interesting to see what would happen currently. 

*Smacks self in forehead*  Completely forgot that she had a lightweaving disguise on in front of Kaladin, twice.

Edited November 20, 2014 by tbone5711

[Kyats Rani she/her]

*Smacks self in forehead*  Completely forgot that she had a lightweaving disguise on in front of Kaladin, twice.

 

She had? When? I recall her creating illusions in Kalasin's presence (the chasms) but no lightweaving disguise.

[Pathfinder]

yeah that was a normal disguise when she first met Kal, no lightweaving. 

[Guest]

Well, sooner or later we just may see this And please, let it be from Adolin's PoV... :ph34r:

 

Yes. Definitely from Adolin's POV. Most of the Adolin/Shallan interactions are written from Shallan's POV. There is only one I recall from Adolin, right after one of his duel and he was worried about her seeing his sweet plastered hair... Lame.

 

We have too many Kaladin and Shallan's POV anyway or so I think. More of other characters would be great.

 

 

Well, people are different, even (or maybe especially) kids. I was reading rather well when I was 4 but none of my friends or other people I know did. On the other hand I always had an awful hand-eye coordination and didn't manage to learn how to properly throw a ball before I was 6 And I still can't ride a bike :ph34r:

 

As I said, reading at four is not usual

 

 

Well, that's usually how it is... As for Shallan, it worked well for her to be natural. What Adolin seems to really hate are lies and tricks. Maybe he would fall for "enhanced" version of Shallan, but as soon as he learned the truth he would feel betrayed and maybe even leave her.

 

Adolin is a caring and loving person who genuinely wants to love and be loved. I think he is falling for Shallan because she has shown interest into him, Adolin, as opposed to his title and rank. Most of his other relationships were quite shallow with girls probably  more interested in the idea of dating handsome Adolin then in him as a person. As a result, all were rather superficial and I suspect he got bored which triggered his wandering eyes, always looking out for the "right" one. Younger Adolin was probably very happy to court everything that moved, but he seemed to have grown out of it now. However, his failures seem to have make him insecure regarding the matter.

 

By being natural and spontaneous, Shallan authorized him to take a leap of faith and be himself, which he never quite is when around people. Despite being quite outspoken, he rarely share his inner thoughts with others. As the date starts, he feels like an old VCR playing the same old cassette up until Shallan disarm him by saying the word poop. He does spend a bit a time thinking if he should answer the question about, but in the end, he takes the plunge and admits it all. He didn't have to do it and yet he did it. From my perspective, it was adorable.

 

 

Shallan is definitely not there yet. She has been sheltered for most of her life so she never had a chance to try. Now she has this chance and she's going to seize it. She needs more character development to realize that willing commitment (like love) is not a prison.

 

The Shallan/Adolin pairing is suffering from having one very experienced member in the manner of dating (but completely inexperienced in everything else) and one novice. Adolin knows he wants to settle down and have a wife. Shallan doesn't.

 

 

I originally thought they would bump into each other and something like this would happen but i prefer if they stayed friends.

Unlikely Kal and Veil would meet now they have split across the continent. 

 

I think it would feel too much like Deus Ex Machina is Kaladin were to randomly bump into Veil... I mean, what are the odds?

[Arondell]

 

I think it would feel too much like Deus Ex Machina is Kaladin were to randomly bump into Veil... I mean, what are the odds?

 

Without actually taking a position on this particular issue the "odds" in this case are fairly irrelevant.  It all depends on where Mr. Sanderson wants to take it.  I know when I think of unlikely occurrences in Words of Radiance the one thing I keep thinking of is Shallan meeting Tyn.  Think about it.  After the shipwreck she just happens to run into the one caravan that has the person who planned out the assassination attempt?  Really?!  What are the odds?     I will admit that I'm impressed that Mr. Sanderson wrote this in such a way that most people don't seem to realize how remarkably unlikely that little meetup was.

[Guest]

Without actually taking a position on this particular issue the "odds" in this case are fairly irrelevant.  It all depends on where Mr. Sanderson wants to take it.  I know when I think of unlikely occurrences in Words of Radiance the one thing I keep thinking of is Shallan meeting Tyn.  Think about it.  After the shipwreck she just happens to run into the one caravan that has the person who planned out the assassination attempt?  Really?!  What are the odds?     I will admit that I'm impressed that Mr. Sanderson wrote this in such a way that most people don't seem to realize how remarkably unlikely that little meetup was.

 

I have never thought about this one , but you are right. I have never liked how Shallan put herself into Tyn's tutelage as she was constantly lying, but I have never made the link with Deux Ex Machina, before now that is. The odds of Kaladin meeting with Veil are about as high as Shallan chances were of meeting with Tyn.... I guess I am annoyed about the Kaladin/Veil meeting as I feel it would be another ploy written with the sole purpose to create a romantic tension between these two. Since Brandon has been multiplying the occasions to have them randomly be together, I would feel annoyed if Brandon pulled another similar ploy.

[Kyats Rani she/her]

Without actually taking a position on this particular issue the "odds" in this case are fairly irrelevant.  It all depends on where Mr. Sanderson wants to take it.  I know when I think of unlikely occurrences in Words of Radiance the one thing I keep thinking of is Shallan meeting Tyn.  Think about it.  After the shipwreck she just happens to run into the one caravan that has the person who planned out the assassination attempt?  Really?!  What are the odds?     I will admit that I'm impressed that Mr. Sanderson wrote this in such a way that most people don't seem to realize how remarkably unlikely that little meetup was.

 Well, the odds of Kaladin meeting Veil seem to me smaller than Shallan meeting with Tyn - after all both Shallan and Tyn were going in the same direction: to the Shattered Plains. True, it happened because it had to happen, but it wasn't so much forced in my opinion. Yes, it seems too convenient of an accident that Tyn was in this very caravan but it was likely for Shallan to run into a caravan in general. With Kaladin and Veil it's a bit different in my eyes - it's very unlikely that Shallan will be going anywhere close to the Kholins (and therefore Bridge 4) disguised as Veil. If such occurence was likely then we could assume that she may run into Kaladin of all people (as she ran into Tyn's caravan and not a different one). But it isn't - at least to me.

 

 

I guess I am annoyed about the Kaladin/Veil meeting as I feel it would be another ploy written with the sole purpose to create a romantic tension between these two. Since Brandon has been multiplying the occasions to have them randomly be together, I would feel annoyed if Brandon pulled another similar ploy.

I second that.

[Guest]

 Well, the odds of Kaladin meeting Veil seem to me smaller than Shallan meeting with Tyn - after all both Shallan and Tyn were going in the same direction: to the Shattered Plains. True, it happened because it had to happen, but it wasn't so much forced in my opinion. Yes, it seems too convenient of an accident that Tyn was in this very caravan but it was likely for Shallan to run into a caravan in general. With Kaladin and Veil it's a bit different in my eyes - it's very unlikely that Shallan will be going anywhere close to the Kholins (and therefore Bridge 4) disguised as Veil. If such occurence was likely then we could assume that she may run into Kaladin of all people (as she ran into Tyn's caravan and not a different one). But it isn't - at least to me.

 

Having given it some more thoughts, I would say Tyn was going to the Shattered Plains right after having killed Jasnah, so it is logical she was in the vicinity. As for her caravan meeting up with Tkvav (spelling someone) were high as I assume there must one traveling caravan routes.

 

Her meeting with Kaladin while disguised as Veil would feel like Deus Ex Machina as they have no reasons to be in the same vicinity. Veil would avoid anyone she knows and if she ever spots Kaladin from afar, be assure she'll walk in the opposite direction. Besides, Kaladin will most likely spend the next book away from the main crew, so meeting opportunities are slim to none. By the time he gets back, I expect Shallan disguise to have been uncovered and Adolin being dealt with. What role he will have to play with these two is unsure to me, considering his current story plot.

 

Any romantic development between Kaladin and Shallan, if it happens, would most likely occur in book 4. What will happen to poor Adolin in two books from now is vague at best for me, even in all my plotting, unless Brandon goes with the "disowned prince in exile" story plot. However, I don't know how interesting it would be to read about Adolin wandering from one place to another.

[Kyats Rani she/her]

Any romantic development between Kaladin and Shallan, if it happens, would most likely occur in book 4. What will happen to poor Adolin in two books from now is vague at best for me, even in all my plotting, unless Brandon goes with the "disowned prince in exile" story plot. However, I don't know how interesting it would be to read about Adolin wandering from one place to another.

 

I agree. Most (if not all) of book 3 Kaladin will be in Hearthstone and Kholinar. He would have no possibility of running into Shallan. There may be some vague possibility of him meeting Shallan's brothers but I doubt it as that would serve no real purpose. In book 3 there will be propably something about Shallan and Adolin falling apart. If Kaladin is to be brought in the mix (and I really hope this won't be the case) it would happen in book 4 when he's back and any relationship between Shallan and Adolin is either extremaly strained or already broken up.

 

I hope Adolin won't become "disowned prince in exile", that would take him too far away from real plot. But if it happens I hope he will get himself into something interesting at least - a run-in with Lift or even Rysn, meeting with Jasnah (assuming she's not in Urithiru already), or at least getting himself into trouble involving Szeth and Nightblood (I honestly hope for either Adolin or Kaladin to get his hands on Nightblood for a short while so they could interact - bonus points for Nightblood pointing out that they are even worse at sneaking than a certain two he knows ). Or Adolin wandering aimlessly around the place could stumble upon Mr. T, "feel" that something is wrong with this guy and try to find out what's going on (after all he has nothing more to lose) therefore messing up with the Diagram. There are also other secret organisations (maybe some we don't know) with which Adolin can accidentially interact. Storms, he may even meet a Herald (not Naln) or a few which would cause severe consequences for everyone. There are many interesting possibilities with exiled Adolin

 

As I was writing this another thought came to my mind - Kaladin in Kholinar meeting Liss (prefarably, or at least another one of Jasnah's assasins). This could get very interesting (especially with some of my crazy theories )

[Guest]

I agree. Most (if not all) of book 3 Kaladin will be in Hearthstone and Kholinar. He would have no possibility of running into Shallan. There may be some vague possibility of him meeting Shallan's brothers but I doubt it as that would serve no real purpose. In book 3 there will be propably something about Shallan and Adolin falling apart. If Kaladin is to be brought in the mix (and I really hope this won't be the case) it would happen in book 4 when he's back and any relationship between Shallan and Adolin is either extremaly strained or already broken up.

 

I hope Adolin won't become "disowned prince in exile", that would take him too far away from real plot. But if it happens I hope he will get himself into something interesting at least - a run-in with Lift or even Rysn, meeting with Jasnah (assuming she's not in Urithiru already), or at least getting himself into trouble involving Szeth and Nightblood (I honestly hope for either Adolin or Kaladin to get his hands on Nightblood for a short while so they could interact - bonus points for Nightblood pointing out that they are even worse at sneaking than a certain two he knows ). Or Adolin wandering aimlessly around the place could stumble upon Mr. T, "feel" that something is wrong with this guy and try to find out what's going on (after all he has nothing more to lose) therefore messing up with the Diagram. There are also other secret organisations (maybe some we don't know) with which Adolin can accidentially interact. Storms, he may even meet a Herald (not Naln) or a few which would cause severe consequences for everyone. There are many interesting possibilities with exiled Adolin

 

As I was writing this another thought came to my mind - Kaladin in Kholinar meeting Liss (prefarably, or at least another one of Jasnah's assasins). This could get very interesting (especially with some of my crazy theories )

 

One of the most interesting "Adolin in exile" story plot I have is the following (yeah, I have at least a dozen of them , but this one may be the more plausible one):

 

Adolin ends up in Purelake. He arrives at the same time as Mr T troupes coming to cure the people from the plague. Adolin catches the plagues and ends up in one of the make-shift hospital with the other sick people. He is recognize by a certain someone: the rebellious son of the Blackthorn is a valuable asset. He is brought within Mr T's retinue.

 

Through his delirium, he keeps seeing a red head carefully wiping his forehead: he calls her Shallan all the time. When he finally wakes from it, it is not Shallan he sees sitting next to his bed, but Danlan.

 

He is not a prisoner, not really, but nor is he allowed to leave the compound or to carry weapons as he recovers, he is slowly being introduced to the Diagram. The Diagram needs a Blackthorn and if Dalinar won't be it, then perhaps his son will? Being in a very vulnerable state, Adolin listens, but everything feels wrong.

 

Danlan re-kinks her relationship with Adolin, who desperate to have someone to love him, especially after having lost his entire family, falls for it, but it feels wrong as well.

 

Taranvangian carefully convinces Adolin Dalinar has to die. He promises the remaining of his family will be spared, but Dalinar cannot be allowed to appose his reign of tyranny. By that time, Adolin will be so mixed up and confused, he'll think this must be true.

 

He'll move against his father. Openly. He'll try to have him murdered, but he won't. He can't. The wrongness of it all will crush him. He'll crumble in front of Dalinar and admits to everything. He babbled it all out, every single thing he has been keeping inside. He'll also realize the Diagram up until he realizes they are slaughtering innocents and he was part of it. 

 

He'll ask his father to kill him.

 

Dalinar won't do it.

[Kyats Rani she/her]

...

 

Honestly, you have the best ideas... The craziest ones sometimes but still the best

 

But why exactly Purelake?

 

Anyway, when I imagine Adolin having any contact with the Diagram I think his supernatural intuition will kick in - he will know something is very, very wrong... I honestly have no idea how could they possibly brainwash Adolin, of all people, to turn against Dalinar. As for the Diagram, I sometimes wonder what will be Moash's role in this plot...

[Guest]

Honestly, you have the best ideas... The craziest ones sometimes but still the best

 

Thanks That was the "Adolin ends up in Purelake" story plot. I have others but this one has the best potential, I think. The other ones are not as fulfilling, some are quite boring, such as the "Adolin meets up with the merchants". Yawns. The "Adolin in Azir" is another interesting one, but least plausible as it gives Lift a bigger role. "Adolin the conqueror" is not bad either.

 

But why exactly Purelake?

 

Anyway, when I imagine Adolin having any contact with the Diagram I think his supernatural intuition will kick in - he will know something is very, very wrong... I honestly have no idea how could they possibly brainwash Adolin, of all people, to turn against Dalinar. As for the Diagram, I sometimes wonder what will be Moash's role in this plot...

 

Why not Purelake? I think Adolin in exile won't know where to go and may as well end up anywhere. We know Taranvangian will soon move in Purelake to heroically cure the plague he launched himself. I thought putting Adolin on Mr T's path would lead to interesting development as the interactions between one of the most rational and one of the most emotional characters are bound to be diverting. I think the Diagram would agree Adolin Kohlin is a valuable asset as his weakness (which alternately also is his strength), his empathy and loving nature, could be used to push its agenda forward. Besides, Mr T now needs another plan to murder Dalinar.

 

The idea is to put Adolin in a vulnerable enough state he'll listen. Everything will work against him. He has just lost his family, he has lost his shards, he was sick for days and he has no ties to anyone so when Danlan moves onto him: he falls for it because internally he is craving for human contacts. While he was with his close ones, his loving nature was his strength, but without them, it becomes his weakness. He wants so much to find back the feeling of love, comfort and care he previously had, he is willing to listen to anyone.

 

So Taranvangian and Danlan carefully play with his emotions to slowly brainwash him. His sense of right and wrong has gone awry ever since he lost his Blade. His intuition is still there, but it is not as strong as it used to be and it gets mixed up into his feeling of pain. So it works. Up until Adolin meets up with Dalinar again, because super smart Mr T have made a mistake: he has planned for empathy, but he has wrongly predicted it. He has failed to predict Adolin's ties to his family would be this hard to severe.

 

Adolin snaps again, but in a good way, but by that time, he has done so much wrong, the weight of it will destroy him. He'll ask for the death penalty as he has failed to be the person Dalinar has always wanted him to be. He just can't be this man. He tried, he really did try, but he could not let Sadeas keep on trying to kill Dalinar. He is the worst of criminals. People died because of him or so he thinks, he's so mixed up he hardly knows what his role has been in it all. He does not know what is right or wrong and he is going crazy. He'll spill it all out in front of bewildered and very concerned Dalinar. Dalinar will have to make the decision to either forgive his son and bring him back under his protective wing as everyone deserves a second chance or to trial him as a war criminal. Some oath will be tied to this decision.

 

Such a plot would also put a bigger window on the actions of the Diagram and give the opportunity to complete Graves, Danlan and Moash's story arc. I do have this looney theory Moash will end up being Adolin's squire. Adolin and Danlan's story was also never quite finished: we never really knew what it is she said that angered him such.

 

We could also insert some Moash action in there, which would be neat.

 

Could also change the ending, this one features "Adolin breaks down quite bad and turns dark grey".  There are many other plots to be used with the idea of Adolin falling within Mr T's hands. It could be brainwashing fails and Adolin runs away with Moash's help. Or Moash is the one to open up Adolin's eyes to what is happening as he too, was drawn into something bigger then he thought. Or you could make more badass with Adolin turning his back on Taranvangian at the worst possible time, tipping the balance of a battle to Dalinar's side.

 

This is more or less a skeleton for a neat, actually interesting "Adolin in exile" story plot.