What if Kal ate Syl?

[gnatbuzzard]

If shard blades are god metals, and with the retcon, all god metals can be burned, what would happen if someone swallowed and burned a spren that had materialized in the material realm as a round bead? Would they gain the powers of the associated radiant faction?

[Treamayne]

1 hour ago, WhimsyIsTheBestShard said:

is that since (anyone) can burn the God Metals,

Brandon has refused (RAFOed) to clarify what "Anyone" means - and that reference is specifically about Atium vs E1Atium. It could mean:

• Literally any sapient in the Cosmere - there are many WoBs that contradict this interpretation
• It could mean Any Allomancer - that's the most common interpretation for E1Atium (not actual Atium)
• It could mean Any Scadrian - because multiple WoBs indicate that burning any Godmetal first requires a Connection to that Shard (all Scadrians have Connection to both Preservation and Ruin due to how the planet and inhabitants were created)
  • Note:Lerasium is an exception because the side-effect of Lerasium is the create a Connection to Preservation for the person burning it and make them an Allomancer (Mistborn)
• Therefore: When dealing with non-Scadrian Godmetals; the individual needs to be an Allomancer to have the portion of Spiritweb that says " you can burn metal for access to investiture" and they need to have a connection to the Shard whose solid-investiture they are trying to burn. Hence "Hoid' in the WoB - he has Connection due to his Radiant Oaths and is a Mistborn because he burned Lerasium. 

Spoiler

Quote

Questioner

Can an Allomancer burn any god metal? Or is it specifically Preservation and Ruin?

Brandon Sanderson

That is actually a RAFO. There's some funkyness going on there.

Oathbringer London signing (Nov. 28, 2017)

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word_thief

What would happen if a Mistborn ingested the metal of a Shardblade/Plate?

Brandon Sanderson

A Shardblade is Invested. A Mistborn isn't likely to have a tie to that type of Investiture. So probably nothing would happen…

General Twitter 2013 (Oct. 24, 2013)

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SageOfTheWise

In Allomancy, normal metals are simply a tool that channels Allomancer's already existing Connection to the power of Preservation, which is why non-Allomancers don't get powers from digesting metal. But if I understand it correctly, god metals are an exception, since they are a form of a Shard's power, burning them directly uses the power stored within.

If I have this right, how come a normal person can burn lerasium, but not atium? Or could they, and no ones thought to try? But if that was true why are there atium Mistings?

Brandon Sanderson

Suffice it to say that what people both in the books and out think about the god metals has some holes in it.

/r/books AMA 2015 (Aug. 13, 2015)

 

Hope that helps

Edited 5 hours ago by Treamayne
SPAG

[WhimsyIsTheBestShard]

1 hour ago, gnatbuzzard said:

If shard blades are god metals, and with the retcon, all god metals can be burned, what would happen if someone swallowed and burned a spren that had materialized in the material realm as a round bead? Would they gain the powers of the associated radiant faction?

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Questioner

What would happen if a person from Scadrial were to try to burn a manifested metal from Roshar?

Brandon Sanderson

So you're meaning they're in Shadesmar, they manifest it, and they try to burn it, right?

Questioner

Say a Spren of a Radiant manifests as a bead of metal instead of a Shardblade?

Brandon Sanderson

You're not going to be able to burn that if it's something that's coming from a spren, because that's not going to be treated as a metal in your body. Like, those are God Metals, and that one is actually alive and awake and it's just not gonna work. There are ways, though, that you could make that work. So it's totally possible, but you're gonna need something that's not an alive spren that's manifest like that. You're gonna need some way to get access to some tanavastium or something like that that's not, like, some living being.

This WoB isn't exactly what you asked but it might answer it

Other Wob:

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Questioner

If a Mistborn were to burn a piece of a Shardblade, what would happen?

Brandon Sanderson

This would be hard to make happen, but it would be possible. A Shardblade is going to act as, basically, an alloy of the god metal of Honor and so  what would it do? RAFO, but it is possible and it would do something. It would not be inert. It would be Allomanticaly viable.

In terms of the retcon, I'm not sure just a random person could eat it and access it, they may need to have connection to Scadrial or somthing, plus they might need intent. Otherwise, shardblades are also an alloy of Tanavastium and Korvellium (I had a different question about God Metals that talked about that)

WoB:

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Alpharho

The metal of Shardblades. Cultivationspren versus honorspren, for example. Are they different metals?

Brandon Sanderson

No, but good question.

Alpharho

Are all orders the same alloy, essentially?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. There's a little asterisk on there, but not in the way you're asking... You could call those all the same alloy. Because the mixture to different spren is different, I think that you could argue that each one is its own alloy.

Alpharho

So, different proportions of tanavastium?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, but it doesn't quite work that way with these magics, right? I'm going to say that's up to the individual cosmerologist who is in the world, the arcanist, defining it. You would be able to find enough differences to legitimately call them different alloys if you wanted to.

Alpharho

Would you say different ratios of the same two metals?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. They are not going to have a third one in them, if that's what you're asking. But it doesn't quite work that way. Like, if you were going to take brass, you could measure the exact percentage. In this case, it is a thing; it's not like you could divide it up and split them apart, because they are a thing. And that thing would be called one thing.

Alpharho

But you won't say what that thing is called?

Brandon Sanderson

No, I won't say what that thing is called. But I think you and the 17th Sharders and folks that are dividing them would prefer to call them ten different things, and I think their nomenclature would be relevant.

 

[Treamayne]

1 hour ago, gnatbuzzard said:

If shard blades are god metals, and with the retcon, all god metals can be burned, what would happen if someone swallowed and burned a spren that had materialized in the material realm as a round bead? Would they gain the powers of the associated radiant faction?

They would not be able to burn a Spren bead - because the spren is sapient and has their own Identity and spiritweb. WoBs:

Spoiler

Quote

Questioner

What would happen if a person from Scadrial were to try to burn a manifested metal from Roshar?

Brandon Sanderson

So you're meaning they're in Shadesmar, they manifest it, and they try to burn it, right?

Questioner

Say a Spren of a Radiant manifests as a bead of metal instead of a Shardblade?

Brandon Sanderson

You're not going to be able to burn that if it's something that's coming from a spren, because that's not going to be treated as a metal in your body. Like, those are God Metals, and that one is actually alive and awake and it's just not gonna work. There are ways, though, that you could make that work. So it's totally possible, but you're gonna need something that's not an alive spren that's manifest like that. You're gonna need some way to get access to some tanavastium or something like that that's not, like, some living being.

Dragonsteel 2023 (Nov. 21, 2023)

 

 

Now, if a mistborn got that piece of the Bondsmith Honorblade that Nightblood knocked off. . . 

Spoiler

NeedsToShutUp

What would happen if Hoid tried to burn the shard that came off Ishar's Honorblade?

Brandon Sanderson

If you were able to get a hold of that piece and burn it, it would act like burning... You would be burning a very pure form of a God Metal, and those have some very interesting effects. RAFO.

YouTube Spoiler Stream 3 (Dec. 16, 2021)

 

Edited 7 hours ago by Treamayne
SPAG

[WhimsyIsTheBestShard]

11 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

Now, if a mistborn got that piece of the Bondsmith Honorblade that Nightblood knocked off. . . 

What the OP was saying is that with the Atium retcon,

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AAKS

My understanding is that Brandon thinks it is a plothole that lerasium can be burned by Scadrian (regardless of if they are Mistings/Mistborn) but atium can't.

His solution is to retcon the Pits to naturally produce an atium/electrum alloy, presumably by the design of Preservation. Therefore we don't know what pure atium looks like or does when used in any magic.

Peter Ahlstrom

We do know what it does. It’s on the Allomancy poster, and the effect appeared one time at the end of Hero of Ages.

LewsTherinTelescope

Interesting. Do you know if he had already conceived the retcon by the time the poster was written, or if that line about pure atium just turned out to fit really well retroactively?

Peter Ahlstrom

The retcon is way older than a lot of people assume.

LewsTherinTelescope

Does this mean he had it in mind by the time Hero of Ages released (since the first public version of the poster dates to 2008), or just that it's old but not sure exactly how old?

Peter Ahlstrom

Remember that what's in the books is filtered through the understanding of the characters. So even if Brandon planned it from the beginning, if the characters didn't know about it, it's not going to come out in the book.

is that since (anyone) can burn the God Metals, could Kaladin have just eaten Syl and burned her, although he isn't a Mistborn. I think that it may have worked if any Scadrian, (Iyatil, for example) were to eat that chip from the Honorblade, but not Syl, even if Kaladin manifested her in a bite-sized manner. 

Edit: As I said in my previous response, I'm not sure if any ordinary person could burn any God Metal, because of Connection to Allomancy, and Connection to the God Metal. I, personally, find God Metals to be very interesting, and a subject for in-depth discussion, so this is a reasonable question. (Yes I just said asking if Kal could eat Syl is a reasonable question)

[WhimsyIsTheBestShard]

21 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

Brandon has refused (RAFOed) to clarify what "Anyone" means - and that reference is specifically about Atium vs E1Atium. It could mean:

• Literally any sapient in the Cosmere - there are many WoBs that contrdict this interpretation
• It could mean Any Allomancer - that's the most common interpretation for E1Atium (not actual Atium)
• It could mean any Scadrian - because multiple WoBs indicate that burning any Godmetal first requires a Connection to that Shard (all Scadrians have Connection to both Preservation and Ruin due to how the planet and inhabitants were created)
  • Note:Lerasium is an exception because the side-effect of Lerasium is the create a Connection to Preservation for the person burning it and make them an Allomancer (Mistborn)
• Therefore: When dealing with non-Scadrian Godmetals; the individual needs to be an Allomancer to have the portion of Spiritweb that says " you can burn metal for access to investiture" and they need to have a connection to the Shard whose solid-investiture they are trying to burn. Hence "Hoid' in the WoB - he has Connection due to his Radiant Oaths and is a Mistborn because he burned Lerasium. 

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Hope that helps

Yeah, that all sounds right. However there is one WoB that contradicts that.

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Dave Smith

Can a Mistborn burn any god metal such as tanavastium?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes they could.

 

Footnote: Previously Brandon indicated they would need a tie to that type of Investiture.

I don't bring this up to argue the point, but this is a kind of confusing thing, and likely something Brandon is wavering on.

[Treamayne]

3 minutes ago, WhimsyIsTheBestShard said:

Yeah, that all sounds right. However there is one WoB that contradicts that.

I don't bring this up to argue the point, but this is a kind of confusing thing, and likely something Brandon is wavering on.

Yep - which is why I worded my first post the way that I did.

[gnatbuzzard]

1 hour ago, Treamayne said:

They would not be able to burn a Spren bead - because the spren is sapient and has their own Identity and spiritweb. WoBs:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

So what I'm hearing is, Syl definitely no, early mayalaran maybe? Or someone further gone like early testament?

[Treamayne]

Welcome to the Shard. Please consider an Intro Post to let us know what you have or have-not read (whichever list is shorter). Also, please consider checking out the Sharder FAQ for some useful forum info and tips. 

20 minutes ago, gnatbuzzard said:

So what I'm hearing is, Syl definitely no, early mayalaran maybe? Or someone further gone like early testament?

• Non-sapient Tanavastium, KorAvastium, or Radiant Alloy - yes
• Sapient (living) versions of above - no (at least not with the current understanding and information)
• "Dead" spren - unlikely; and, if possible, would require extra steps / methods

Tangential WoB

Spoiler

FearTheOldBlood

I remember in another WoB you confirmed that the living nature of spren would make them unviable for Allomancy. So I was wondering, if a Radiant were to kill their spren--but will it into the shape of a spike beforehand, and use that spike for Hemalurgy, could the person who was spiked have a Connection established between them and a Vessel of Honor or Cultivation?

Brandon Sanderson

You horrible person. But this would work. Yeah, you're absolutely horrible, that would work. Remember that that's going to make a god metal spike and that's going to have some weird effects being a god metal, but yeah, that could work.

Worldcon 2025 (Aug. 16, 2025)

 

Edited 5 hours ago by Treamayne
SPAG

[WhimsyIsTheBestShard]

In other words, going back to the original question, Kal could eat Syl (maybe), but he'd have to kill her first.