Flesh Forgery Observations & Extrapolations

[Trusk'our he/him]

Flesh Forgery, or Resealing as it's known by the Grands of the Rose Empire, is kind of elusive right now.

However, there are a few things we can put together to create a more complete picture.

The first observation I would like to make is that the Forgery Shai makes for Ashravan does not interfere with the Resealing and vice versa. I find this most interesting since two or more Forgeries typically cannot be put on a person since they would interfere with each other. And given that this issue is never once brought up, I highly suspect that Resealing is a more permanent act than Soul Forgery- a stamp placed on a person couldn't just be undone by leaving the province or breaking the physical seal before.

Resealing is also said to be very dangerous if not done correctly, and from such I believe that this system is more flexible in some ways than Soul Forging- at least when it comes to shaping one's body. Shai mentions that you must get everything down to a tee, since getting even a single blood vessel or muscle off in your stamp can kill the patient. Since this magic apparently isn't as locked into a safeguarded preset like Soul Forgery, I suspect you can directly alter the physical aspect (in theory) however you want. It's just such a complex and risky practice that doing much more than healing would be unlikely.

One final observation I made was that Ashravan (though I think of overall less importance) would have presumably needed a Resealing very quickly, as he had a severe head injury that left him braindead. So, either you can do what Soul Forgers do and have many premade stamps (which, for the emperor is actually pretty likely) or it's a lot quicker for them to be made- perhaps instead of making an entire story of someone's alternate life history you just target an area of the body and carve a stamp that approximates what a healthy tissue in that area would look like and the magic does the rest.

 

I had previously thought Resealing to be a mere training difference in its function than Soul Forging (and given Shai's commentary about choosing not to pursue it, perhaps it is a close enough cousin that MaiPon people could learn both), but given these differences I now believe it to be closely related by separate system that targets and modifies the Physical Aspect rather than targeting the Spiritual Aspect and being forced to adhere to its presets (though I'm sure Soul Forgery is the only of the two capable of affecting one's skills, memories, and Connections. Just worse at healing and probably reshaping a body). In other words, I think Soul Forgery writes an alternate story for a person or object that their Spiritweb aligns with, while Flesh Forgery directly takes the blueprints of their body and reshapes it as written by the Forger.

With the advancements of Soul Forgery like universal stamps, it would be pretty cool to see Flesh Forgery gain applications for not just healing, but enhancing individuals (increasing muscle mass, bone density, reshaping organs to be safer from injury) or maybe for cosmetics.

[Treamayne]

3 hours ago, Trusk'our said:

I highly suspect that Resealing is a more permanent act than Soul Forgery

Depends on your definition of "'permanent" - (Elantris and Stormlight Archive spoilers)

Spoiler

It's no different than Raoden using the healing Aon on Roial or Renarin healing the wounded at Thaylen City. The stamp is used, the investiture uses itself up by healing in accordance with the Commands (in the stamp in this case), the healing completes and the stamp is gone.
Elantris Ch 53:

Quote

Roial’s eyes focused, perceiving for the first time the Aon that Spirit was drawing above him. He breathed out in awe. “Have you returned the beautiful city as well?”

Spirit didn’t respond, instead concentrating on his Aon. He drew differently from the way he had before, his fingers moving more dexterously and quickly. He finished the Aon with a small line near the bottom. It began to glow warmly, bathing Roial in its light. As Sarene watched, the edges of Roial’s wound seemed to pull together slightly. A scratch on Roial’s face disappeared, and several of the liver spots on his scalp faded.

Then the light fell away, the wound still belching blood with each futile pump of the duke’s dying heart.

Spirit cursed. “It’s too weak,” he said, desperately beginning another Aon. “And I haven’t studied the healing modifiers! I don’t know how to target just one part of the body.”

Same modifiers (different language, but the same as far as the Dor is concerned) - that's what the Moon Scepter was all about.. 

Hope that helps

[Trusk'our he/him]

23 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

Depends on your definition of "'permanent" - (Elantris and Stormlight Archive spoilers)

  Hide contents

It's no different than Raoden using the healing Aon on Roial or Renarin healing the wounded at Thaylen City. The stamp is used, the investiture uses itself up by healing in accordance with the Commands (in the stamp in this case), the healing completes and the stamp is gone.
Elantris Ch 53:

Same modifiers (different language, but the same as far as the Dor is concerned) - that's what the Moon Scepter was all about.. 

Hope that helps

My thoughts exactly. I think it's a type of Investiture that can be expended to transform a body in some way, but unlike with a Soul Forgery there isn't a continuous effect that needs to be maintained (else Ashravan's Resealing would probably have interfered with Shai's Soulstamp). It should be a one-and-done.

[Treamayne]

3 hours ago, Trusk'our said:

My thoughts exactly. I think it's a type of Investiture that can be expended to transform a body in some way, but unlike with a Soul Forgery there isn't a continuous effect that needs to be maintained (else Ashravan's Resealing would probably have interfered with Shai's Soulstamp). It should be a one-and-done.

Because it is not changing the soul at all, it is using the soul as a template to change the body (heal) - like every other form of Invested healing. 

Of note: sealing works with connection instead of the soul as well (in addition to the Dor-based Lifeless Skeletals)

 

Edited March 8 by Treamayne
SPAG

[Trusk'our he/him]

1 hour ago, Treamayne said:

Because it is not changing the soul at all, it is using the soul as a template to change the body (heal) - like every other form of Invested healing. 

Of note: sealing works with connection instead of the soul as well (in addition to the Dor-based Lifeless Skeletals)

I question whether Flesh Forgery uses the Spiritual template to the same extent as the other known forms of healing. Mostly because it is the only example where it's been called out as being deadly if you get it wrong.

Elantris spoilers:

Spoiler

Though a failed AonDor healing royally screwed over Dilaf's wife, so as a highly-versatile magic system it may be in the same boat- more specific and potent uses of healing require more technical skill. 

Most healing magics don't do that. They auto-correct the body to match the Spiritweb filtered through the person's own perception. People aren't going to die from that because they can't- the Investiture simply won't make the changes necessary to bring that about by itself.

This is the real crux of my second point, where if one has the freedom to make changes to the body with Resealing that could bypass what the Spiritual template usually hard locks into place, I believe there is a very strong chance someone with great skill and knowledge could make beneficial changes to the body as well.

 

This is of course an extrapolation of a few tidbits about the system but ultimately I really like the idea and think it's fairly sound.

[Treamayne]

6 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

Mostly because it is the only example where it's been called out as being deadly if you get it wrong.

I think you are discounting the way Roial died - Shai is not a resealer and she could just as easily have meant "if you screw up the stamp, the healing fails and the patient dies." Just as Raoden's attempt failed to save Roial.

We have no indication she meant a healing could heal "wrong."

Edited March 8 by Treamayne
SPAG

[Trusk'our he/him]

18 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

I think you are discounting the way Roial died - Shai is not a resealer and she could just as easily have meant "if you screw up the stamp, the healing fails and the patient dies." Just as Raoden's attempt failed to save Roial.

We have no indication she meant a healing could heal "wrong."

You know, you're probably right. That would be a much more elegant solution to Shai's wording.