discuss Cosmere Bene Gesserit?

[Schizoposting]

4 hours ago, ParaTulip said:

I do not believe you. I think you have a poor understanding of Dune. Paul identifies a narrow golden path which satisfies his desire to avenge his family. Part of why he is able to do that is because the Fremen culture is molded to accept him as a divine savior instead of just a useful seer. However, he notes that this means his plan will result in millions slaughter in his name, which he eventually just decides is cool actually (funniest part of Dune Messiah is Paul getting WW2 history wrong while he gloats about killing more people than Hitler). Also, I would point out the Bene Gesserit are not themselves prescient, they too depend on the guild despite their own program producing a being which does have that ability.

The point of the golden path was to free humanity from prescient despots; thus, they had to be a legitimate threat—Leto II was literally invincible until Siona came along. In Paul's case, his ability to see the future was so great, that even when blinded, he could still perceive the world perfectly fine. With such an ability he could deftly manipulate events until he became emperor. 

Also, Paul was opposed to the Fremen jihad; he repeatedly sought to find a way to prevent the murder of billions of people, but he saw that no matter what he did it was inevitable. Ironically, like with the Bene Gesserit, he unleashed a force far beyond his own control. The remark about Hitler wasn't gloating—it was an admission of his guilt. 

While I am by no means an expert on Dune (I only read the books), it honestly feels like you're misinterpreting it in a very major way.

[redundant]

16 hours ago, Schizoposting said:

The point of the golden path was to free humanity from prescient despots; thus, they had to be a legitimate threat—Leto II was literally invincible until Siona came along. In Paul's case, his ability to see the future was so great, that even when blinded, he could still perceive the world perfectly fine. With such an ability he could deftly manipulate events until he became emperor. 

Also, Paul was opposed to the Fremen jihad; he repeatedly sought to find a way to prevent the murder of billions of people, but he saw that no matter what he did it was inevitable. Ironically, like with the Bene Gesserit, he unleashed a force far beyond his own control. The remark about Hitler wasn't gloating—it was an admission of his guilt. 

While I am by no means an expert on Dune (I only read the books), it honestly feels like you're misinterpreting it in a very major way.

There's an interesting concept from Althusser called overdetermination. In this framework, the Fremen jihad was overdetermined. From the moment Paul emerged from the desert, the massacre was inevitable. No action, even with perfect prescience on his part, can stop it.

[Schizoposting]

On 3/2/2026 at 2:35 PM, redundant said:

There's an interesting concept from Althusser called overdetermination. In this framework, the Fremen jihad was overdetermined. From the moment Paul emerged from the desert, the massacre was inevitable. No action, even with perfect prescience on his part, can stop it.

I would not say that the Jihad was overdetermined—if anything, it's an example of the "teleology" that Althusser so loved to criticize.  

In general, I think that "overdetermination" is a bad concept that comes from a gross misreading of Hegel—nowhere did he, or anyone else, claim that there's exactly one contradiction. I am not particularly impressed with Althusser's "Structural Marxism" to say the least, but that's probably outside the scope of this topic.