Stoneward pseudo awakening

[DoctaDajman]

I think a stoneward could certainly manipulate movement and even turn a rope into something that wraps up and then hardens around people in a similar fashion to an awakened rope... 

But how much fine control do you think they have on the objects of their tension and cohesion manipulation?  

Can either of these be used at range or is it only by touch?  I assume a barefoot stoneward could turn the ground they stand on into quicksand outward in a direction... or even select the portion of the ground near them that they want to turn fluid before it swallows up an enemy and they turn it back to rock. 

As cool as making the floor a cooler trap than lava is... if they couse use it at a range and cohesion an enemies shirt enough to constrict their respiratory muscles from working properly that would be insane too. 

[Through The Living Grub He/Him]

21 hours ago, DoctaDajman said:

I think a stoneward could certainly manipulate movement and even turn a rope into something that wraps up and then hardens around people in a similar fashion to an awakened rope... 

But how much fine control do you think they have on the objects of their tension and cohesion manipulation?  

Can either of these be used at range or is it only by touch?  I assume a barefoot stoneward could turn the ground they stand on into quicksand outward in a direction... or even select the portion of the ground near them that they want to turn fluid before it swallows up an enemy and they turn it back to rock. 

As cool as making the floor a cooler trap than lava is... if they couse use it at a range and cohesion an enemies shirt enough to constrict their respiratory muscles from working properly that would be insane too. 

This is similar to what the Willshaper(?) Honorbearer did to Szeth. It seems that skilled users have incredible control over how the stone can move, creating pillars giant pillars of encasing someone in a stone sphere.

As to what their range is, I don't think there is any concrete information.

[DoctaDajman]

3 minutes ago, Xiahida said:

This is similar to what the Willshaper(?) Honorbearer did to Szeth. It seems that skilled users have incredible control over how the stone can move, creating pillars giant pillars of encasing someone in a stone sphere.

As to what their range is, I don't think there is any concrete information.

Having not read the book yet I have to ask. Did Kalak only do that at close range while touching Szeth?  Any idea what chapter this happened in so I can skip ahead and spoil it for myself?  

[Returned he/him]

6 minutes ago, DoctaDajman said:

Having not read the book yet I have to ask. Did Kalak only do that at close range while touching Szeth?  Any idea what chapter this happened in so I can skip ahead and spoil it for myself?  

I strongly recommend not skipping ahead to read this section just for this. To interact with this chapter at all will expose you to a lot of spoiling. Xiahida's description is enough to address your question and I don't think that reading the chapter will give you much information beyond that. But if you must, it's WaT, chapter 41.

Spoiler

Also, for completeness' sake, it's the Stoneward Honorbearer, not the Willshaper. It is confusing because the chapter mentions Willshapers a lot, more than Stonewards, but it's a comparison Szeth is frequently making for reasons the chapter describes (briefly).

[DoctaDajman]

3 minutes ago, Returned said:

I strongly recommend not skipping ahead to read this section just for this. To interact with this chapter at all will expose you to a lot of spoiling. Xiahida's description is enough to address your question and I don't think that reading the chapter will give you much information beyond that. But if you must, it's WaT, chapter 41.

  Hide contents

Also, for completeness' sake, it's the Stoneward Honorbearer, not the Willshaper. It is confusing because the chapter mentions Willshapers a lot, more than Stonewards, but it's a comparison Szeth is frequently making for reasons the chapter describes (briefly).

I appreciate the concern. I am not invested in the story at all for SA. Its just not my jam and I dont have 120 spare hours to catch up. I just like the magic usage and would skip all of the story gladly to see how the system is shaping up. 

 

[Returned he/him]

3 minutes ago, DoctaDajman said:

I appreciate the concern. I am not invested in the story at all for SA. Its just not my jam and I dont have 120 spare hours to catch up. I just like the magic usage and would skip all of the story gladly to see how the system is shaping up. 

Oh, in that case read on! I think you'll like the action sequence, given your question. I found it exciting, and we don't get to see a whole lot of Stoneward action elsewhere.

Edited February 27 by Returned

[Jult]

21 hours ago, DoctaDajman said:

Can either of these be used at range or is it only by touch?

The skill tree from the Cosmere RPG starts with you only being able to use both Cohesion and Tension on objects you can touch.

Eventually, the Cohesion tree unlocks a talent called Through the Stone that lets you "use your surges and their talents as though your reach is 20 feet, as long as there is a stone surface between you and your target that you can touch."

21 hours ago, DoctaDajman said:

But how much fine control do you think they have on the objects of their tension and cohesion manipulation?  

Very coincidental choice of words, but the Tension tree has a Talent called Fine Control. It lets you "selectively change the rigidity of an object’s parts, allowing fine control much like the movement of muscles and tendons".

It even directly notes some of the rope shenanigans you are describing (spoilered for length - I cut out a couple bits of text related to the game mechanics since those probably aren't of interest to anyone):

Spoiler

"Many Tension users infuse long pieces of cloth, rope, or other flexible material that they can control, effectively extending their range. On each of your turns for the duration, while touching part of one object you infused using this talent, you can move it up to 25 feet along surfaces (including ceilings) and can use it to interact with characters and other objects.

You can (...) have one infused object perform simple tasks like climbing a tree or opening a door. You can (...) task one infused object with something that requires a test or your careful attention, such as attacking someone or writing a message. The object has no senses of its own and can’t act without your touch and direct control, so you can’t give it tasks that require senses or knowledge you don’t have."

[DoctaDajman]

1 hour ago, Jult said:

The skill tree from the Cosmere RPG starts with you only being able to use both Cohesion and Tension on objects you can touch.

Eventually, the Cohesion tree unlocks a talent called Through the Stone that lets you "use your surges and their talents as though your reach is 20 feet, as long as there is a stone surface between you and your target that you can touch."

Very coincidental choice of words, but the Tension tree has a Talent called Fine Control. It lets you "selectively change the rigidity of an object’s parts, allowing fine control much like the movement of muscles and tendons".

It even directly notes some of the rope shenanigans you are describing (spoilered for length - I cut out a couple bits of text related to the game mechanics since those probably aren't of interest to anyone):

  Hide contents

"Many Tension users infuse long pieces of cloth, rope, or other flexible material that they can control, effectively extending their range. On each of your turns for the duration, while touching part of one object you infused using this talent, you can move it up to 25 feet along surfaces (including ceilings) and can use it to interact with characters and other objects.

You can (...) have one infused object perform simple tasks like climbing a tree or opening a door. You can (...) task one infused object with something that requires a test or your careful attention, such as attacking someone or writing a message. The object has no senses of its own and can’t act without your touch and direct control, so you can’t give it tasks that require senses or knowledge you don’t have."

This sounds like a better version of Awakening with the limitation of range and touch while using it. (No awakening clothes and walking away while they wrestle your opponent). 

Thanks for these. I think the RPG is pretty close to canon. I know its not entirely but I feel like a big selling point was that Brandon was working closely with that team no?  

[Jult]

Just now, DoctaDajman said:

This sounds like a better version of Awakening with the limitation of range and touch while using it. (No awakening clothes and walking away while they wrestle your opponent). 

Thanks for these. I think the RPG is pretty close to canon. I know its not entirely but I feel like a big selling point was that Brandon was working closely with that team no?  

Correct. Brotherwise (the designers of the game) meet regularly with Brandon, Dan Wells (Dragonsteel's Vice President of Narrative), and other Dragonsteel employees to make sure they don't add anything too contradictory. It's intended to be canon, especially the World Guides and story materials. With a couple of caveats:

1. If it contradicts any of the actual novels, the novels win.
2. Take any of the mechanical aspects of the game with a grain of salt. In order to gamify the system, they had to insert certain limits and constraints. For example, the 20-foot range mentioned above. We get an exact measurement for the sake of the game, but for lore purposes I'd probably just interpret that as Stonewards being able to use their abilities at a short distance and would not recommend getting hung up on the exact number.

[DoctaDajman]

4 minutes ago, Jult said:

Correct. Brotherwise (the designers of the game) meet regularly with Brandon, Dan Wells (Dragonsteel's Vice President of Narrative), and other Dragonsteel employees to make sure they don't add anything too contradictory. It's intended to be canon, especially the World Guides and story materials. With a couple of caveats:

1. If it contradicts any of the actual novels, the novels win.
2. Take any of the mechanical aspects of the game with a grain of salt. In order to gamify the system, they had to insert certain limits and constraints. For example, the 20-foot range mentioned above. We get an exact measurement for the sake of the game, but for lore purposes I'd probably just interpret that as Stonewards being able to use their abilities at a short distance and would not recommend getting hung up on the exact number.

And tension is usable on non living things!  This is the steel cable doc ock arm dream that can be realized without needing to have 9th heightening. 

Perhaps controlling multiple arms at once would be difficult and require some skill?  But still closer than awakening and more in the users control than hoping the command works right. 

Plus it does invest the item too so would that make them resistant to shards as well?  I would think so given that focused ones flesh becomes shardproof while under tension.

Edited February 27 by DoctaDajman

[Nitpicking]

I'd say it's Awakening, not pseudo at all. We know that Cosmere magics can often be performed using different magic systems, like Radiant and Yolen Lightweaving. 

[DoctaDajman]

2 hours ago, Nitpicking said:

I'd say it's Awakening, not pseudo at all. We know that Cosmere magics can often be performed using different magic systems, like Radiant and Yolen Lightweaving. 

The reason I say pseudo is because I dont believe a rope manipulated with tension is going to be in the same class of invested object as something that is awakened with breaths. 

The awakened rope with breaths moves based on the command and will continue to do so long after the awakener walks away. You could awaken a rope to run a motor for your generator for a long long time. 

But with tension, I dont know that that rope will do what you want it to do after you leave.  

Maybe it will?  If that is the case then this is even more epic imo. 

[Jult]

43 minutes ago, DoctaDajman said:

But with tension, I dont know that that rope will do what you want it to do after you leave.  

Maybe it will?  If that is the case then this is even more epic imo. 

Sadly, it will not according to the RPG:

Quote

"The object has no senses of its own and can’t act without your touch and direct control, so you can’t give it tasks that require senses or knowledge you don’t have."