Zxevicus M. Cortillius Posted February 7 Posted February 7 What if the Shattering wasn't an assassination, but a consensual "System Reset" where Adonalsium is using the current Shardic conflicts to "filter" its power through a new Vessel—specifically one holding a combination of Shards that creates "Retribution"—before ultimately reforming itself? The Evidence The Nohadon "Trojan Horse": The version of Nohadon we see in Wind and Truth feels more like a direct manifestation of the "Will of the Universe" than a standard Cognitive Shadow. Is this "Adonalsium’s Will" grooming Dalinar to become the "Magnet" that pulls the Shards back together? The "Retribution" Intent: Many speculate on the "Honor + Odium" combination. If the result is Retribution, that Shard’s literal purpose would be to hunt and punish the original 16 Vessels, effectively acting as a "clean-up crew" to reclaim the scattered pieces of Adonalsium. The "Monster" Filter: The theory suggests that as a Vessel (like Dalinar) collects these conflicting Shards, the internal friction will turn them into a "Monster" in their own eyes. This psychological breaking point forces the Vessel to "descend" (surrender their ego), allowing the human element to fall away so the divine power can unify into a reformed Adonalsium. The Wheel of Time Parallel: Brandon has already written a "God-Cycle" where the Hero (The Dragon) must become a "Monster" to save the world, eventually surrendering his god-like power to restore the status quo. Is he mirroring this "Circular Narrative" for the Cosmere’s endgame? Hoid’s Motivations: This explains Hoid’s fear. He isn't just stopping Odium; he’s trying to prevent the "Reformation." He wants to keep the universe "Shattered" because a unified Adonalsium means the end of mortal agency. ?
Frustration Posted February 7 Posted February 7 (edited) Welcome to the shard! 52 minutes ago, Zxevicus M. Cortillius said: What if the Shattering wasn't an assassination, but a consensual "System Reset" where Adonalsium is using the current Shardic conflicts to "filter" its power through a new Vessel—specifically one holding a combination of Shards that creates "Retribution"—before ultimately reforming itself? The Evidence The Nohadon "Trojan Horse": The version of Nohadon we see in Wind and Truth feels more like a direct manifestation of the "Will of the Universe" than a standard Cognitive Shadow. Is this "Adonalsium’s Will" grooming Dalinar to become the "Magnet" that pulls the Shards back together? The "Retribution" Intent: Many speculate on the "Honor + Odium" combination. If the result is Retribution, that Shard’s literal purpose would be to hunt and punish the original 16 Vessels, effectively acting as a "clean-up crew" to reclaim the scattered pieces of Adonalsium. The "Monster" Filter: The theory suggests that as a Vessel (like Dalinar) collects these conflicting Shards, the internal friction will turn them into a "Monster" in their own eyes. This psychological breaking point forces the Vessel to "descend" (surrender their ego), allowing the human element to fall away so the divine power can unify into a reformed Adonalsium. The Wheel of Time Parallel: Brandon has already written a "God-Cycle" where the Hero (The Dragon) must become a "Monster" to save the world, eventually surrendering his god-like power to restore the status quo. Is he mirroring this "Circular Narrative" for the Cosmere’s endgame? Hoid’s Motivations: This explains Hoid’s fear. He isn't just stopping Odium; he’s trying to prevent the "Reformation." He wants to keep the universe "Shattered" because a unified Adonalsium means the end of mortal agency. ? The highlighted sections make me feel that this was AI generated, which I personally don't have a problem with, but you should probably do a bit more polish on them before posting as a couple of these have little basis within the books, or have been confirmed and are thus no longer speculation. As for Nohadon, he appears to me to be much closer to a manifestation of the God Beyond than Adonalsium. The Stormfather even says that one of the dreams Dalinar had wasn't of the Shards, while it bears many resemblances to other manifestations at other parts of the story. Light reading for anyone interested Spoiler lightylantern Was the guy Dalinar met in his flashback really Nohadon? Brandon Sanderson So far as he knows. /r/books AMA 2015 (March 12, 2015) Kaspbrak In the past, you've RAFO'd whether Nohadon had the powers of a Bondsmith or not. Can you answer that now? Brandon Sanderson Nope. Well I mean, I can. I will not. Something weird is happening. Will I ever answer it? Maybe not. YouTube Spoiler Stream 4 (June 16, 2022) Gordon Kelsch Can Dalinar permanently bring someone back from the Spiritual Realm? Brandon Sanderson No. In fact, whether or not the voices he is hearing are legitimately voices from Beyond the Spiritual Realm, or if they're a manifestation much like the visions that the Stormfather creates, where Dalinar's desire for certain things is basically creating... So when Dalinar goes into the visions, what's going on there is: these are not people with autonomy that he is interacting with. These are Investiture manifesting a basic AI that is able to adapt, cause Investiture kind of can do this. Dalinar would argue, "Yes, that's the case except for when I actually met Nohadon. That character felt different, that felt like the real Nohadon stretching through the Spiritual Realm and actually interacting." Jasnah would say, "No, that's because, Dalinar, you have such, in your mind, a hope and desire to see Nohadon, he's this mythological figure in your head, that basically the Stormfather's knowledge of who he actually was was creating this much more animated puppet that was more like actually how Nohadon was, but was based on knowledge of the spren and the Investiture that you're interacting with." And Dalinar would say, "I heard Evi's voice." Jasnah would say, "You heard the Investiture coming to life and speaking with her voice the things you needed to hear. And it wasn't that the Stormfather was like, 'He needs to hear this, I'm going to create this fake.' But it's instead your relationship with this magical force that does take on life of its own, manifesting this thing." Which one it is, I do not answer. Both are, I consider, equally valid interpretations of the text, and equally valid interpretations of the magic system. Once someone is passed into the Beyond, there is no force that can bring them back, according to people's understanding of the magic system. There is even the argument that Cognitive Shadows are not the person. That the Cognitive Shadow is indeed a spren with the memories and an imprint of the person's personality that becomes self aware and continued on living that person. It's kind of the same question that arises in Star Trek. When you are ripped apart and rebuilt piece by piece with the transporter, some people in Star Trek do not believe you are becoming the same person again. You are then a different individual who has been cloned from the person and had the memories attached. Functionally, in the narrative, for the reader, it's the same. Is it the same soul or not? That question is answered differently by different people in the Cosmere. There are equally valid interpretations from the reader. You get to decide, basically. You get to decide, just like if there's a story where a person's brain is uploaded to a computer, you get to decide: is that the same person? Because we can't do that, we don't know. Is that the exact same individual, or is that a computer simulation of that person, where the person has died? That's what a Cognitive Shadow essentially is, but using Cosmere physics instead of theoretical science fiction physics. YouTube Spoiler Stream 1 (Dec. 17, 2020) Snote85 Is Nohadon a herald. There are tons and tons of little things that make me think this. Like the KR have the Way of Kings to base their views and policies on. Which, as was stated, was written by him. In Dalinar's vision of Nohadon, he says things about surgebindings and implies the man he's speaking to is a leader of an order, like he himself is. We know, from the WoR (In world) excerpts, that all the orders were lead by the heralds, after a time anyway. That's my reasoning, not that you need it, if it's true or not true. I just thought I might clarify why I came to that conclusion. Brandon Sanderson Nohadon is not a Herald, but I can see what lead you to think otherwise. Let's just say that even among kings and surgebinders, he was someone special. General Reddit 2017 (Feb. 10, 2017) Questioner In Stormlight, Dalinar mentioned that <if he can die, he's no longer a god>, so to speak. And throughout the cosmere, gods died *inaudible*. Is there an omniscient, omnipotent, actual God in the cosmere? Brandon Sanderson Is there an omniscient, omnipotent God in the cosmere? Some people believe that there is. You guys laugh about this, but I don't mean it to be a laughing thing. There are certain questions I will not answer in the cosmere, specifically because it would too much undermine some of the characters' beliefs. And I want to treat characters respectfully. So whether there is life after you pass into the Beyond, and whether there is a God of gods, an omnipotent, as we would define "monotheistic God," are questions that I don't answer, and I let the characters deal with. Because if I answer that, then the character discussions about this are meaningless. Not really, but they kind of are. So there are a couple things I won't answer about the cosmere, because the characters don't have these answers. Questioner <Do you know the answer>? Brandon Sanderson I know the answer, yes. Arcanum Unbounded release party (Nov. 22, 2016) Windrunner Shai refers to an Unknown God, is this at all related to the rocks that fell from the sky that Shai's ancestors carved? Brandon Sanderson For her people, there is a relationship. But watch for mentions of the God Beyond in the books. There is more here. /r/fantasy AMA 2013 (April 15, 2013) Edited February 7 by Frustration 3
Qianweilian He/him Posted February 7 Posted February 7 (edited) 2 hours ago, Zxevicus M. Cortillius said: What if the Shattering wasn't an assassination, but a consensual "System Reset" where Adonalsium is using the current Shardic conflicts to "filter" its power through a new Vessel—specifically one holding a combination of Shards that creates "Retribution"—before ultimately reforming itself? Brandon has explicitly said there will be an “end” to the Cosmere. Whether that means a radical change after which he doesn’t write further, destruction, or something else, I doubt that it will be cyclical as WoT. Quote Questioner A lot of franchises out there today are kind of focused on continuing as long as possible, maybe making as much money as possible. I was wondering if there will be a definitive end to the Cosmere overall at some point. Brandon Sanderson Yeah, it’s a great question. So, I can say there will be, yes. I have planned a definitive end. The asterisk I’m gonna put on there: if I’m still around after that’s done, I might go write little side stories. You might get more things like the Secret Projects that are taking place. But the Cosmere itself has a definitive end. Right now, the plan is: Era 3 Ghostbloods of Mistborn with the Elantris sequels; then Era 2 of Stormlight; then Dragonsteel, the Hoid origin story; then Era 4 being the end. There might be a cyberpunk Mistborn in there; it’s totally possible. But the Space Age era (it could end up being Era 5 if we do Cyberpunk), that has been plotted as the end point. That’s what we’re shooting toward. And I plan that to be a definitive ending. That said, I don’t know what I would do with myself if I weren’t writing, so maybe I’d be like, "The Cosmere is done. Here are some stories that are not in the Cosmere, like Rithmatist, but really feel like they could be," or something like that. We’ll see. Let’s just focus on getting through. There’s a whole lot of writing there. We just hit the halfway point, and, you know, I’m turning 50 next year. So, I'm gonna keep going. Dragonsteel Nexus 2024 (Dec. 6, 2024) 2 hours ago, Zxevicus M. Cortillius said: The Nohadon "Trojan Horse": The version of Nohadon we see in Wind and Truth feels more like a direct manifestation of the "Will of the Universe" than a standard Cognitive Shadow. Is this "Adonalsium’s Will" grooming Dalinar to become the "Magnet" that pulls the Shards back together? Dalinar is dead, unfortunately. While the Blackthornspren leaves some possibility, I doubt it will just replace him. Quote Questioner Is Dalinar really dead? Brandon Sanderson Yes, Dalinar is really dead. I'm sorry. Dalinar is really dead. So Dalinar is dead like Vin and Elend are dead, not like Kelsier was dead. Now, it depends on what you think of life after death. YouTube Spoiler Stream 7 (Dec. 19, 2025) 2 hours ago, Zxevicus M. Cortillius said: The "Retribution" Intent: Many speculate on the "Honor + Odium" combination. If the result is Retribution, that Shard’s literal purpose would be to hunt and punish the original 16 Vessels, effectively acting as a "clean-up crew" to reclaim the scattered pieces of Adonalsium. Possible, but half of the original vessels are dead. 2 hours ago, Zxevicus M. Cortillius said: The "Monster" Filter: The theory suggests that as a Vessel (like Dalinar) collects these conflicting Shards, the internal friction will turn them into a "Monster" in their own eyes. This psychological breaking point forces the Vessel to "descend" (surrender their ego), allowing the human element to fall away so the divine power can unify into a reformed Adonalsium. I don’t get the “monster” part of this? Also, the resultant shard with a somewhat subsumed vessel will still have issues from friction. 2 hours ago, Zxevicus M. Cortillius said: The Wheel of Time Parallel: Brandon has already written a "God-Cycle" where the Hero (The Dragon) must become a "Monster" to save the world, eventually surrendering his god-like power to restore the status quo. Is he mirroring this "Circular Narrative" for the Cosmere’s endgame? Wheel of Time Spoilers Spoiler Rand doesn’t “surrender his god-like power.” The thing with Moridin was entirely unintentional and he was arguably more powerful after the fact. There are many theories about this, go read them. 2 hours ago, Zxevicus M. Cortillius said: Is he mirroring this "Circular Narrative" for the Cosmere’s endgame? Doubt it. See #1. Also he appears to be less interested in “multiverse” type stuff (not exactly the same thing, but same vibes). Quote kdt05b Can Megan manifest a Cosmere reality? The Reckoners is not part of the Cosmere, but one of they main character's power is reaching into alternate dimensions. I want to see some epics on Roshar! Brandon Sanderson I wanted to avoid multi-verse theory type things in the Cosmere, in part because the Wheel of Time delved into these concepts, and even before working on the WoT was looking for ways to keep the Cosmere distinctive from it. Beyond that, multiverses (along with time travel) really play havoc with continuity. I felt the cosmere was stronger if I kept to the three Realms--that's complex enough. Assume that in the cosmere, while different possible futures/pasts do branch (and can be seen) things like Allomantic gold are NOT looking at other realities--and there is only one reality, once events actually occur. This does mean that time travel into the past is not going to be a factor in the cosmere. This separation does let me divide these concepts off and play with them in other realms (like the Reckoners) where they're 'quarantined' so to speak. Skyward Pre-Release AMA (Oct. 12, 2018) 2 hours ago, Zxevicus M. Cortillius said: Hoid’s Motivations: This explains Hoid’s fear. He isn't just stopping Odium; he’s trying to prevent the "Reformation." He wants to keep the universe "Shattered" because a unified Adonalsium means the end of mortal agency This WoB suggests that Hoid is at least cordial with the idea of reforming Adonalsium. Although it’s still not a lot. Quote Questioner So, Hoid was there during the Shattering of Adonalsium. Odium is going around, like, destroying other Shards. We know that Hoid is collecting and has pieces of some of the other Shards. Brandon Sanderson Yes. Questioner Since Hoid was there at the original Shattering of Adonalsium. Is there an echo image of the original Adonalsium in Hoid? Brandon Sanderson Uh, that's a RAFO. Here's your card. But it is a valid theory. Questioner I have a two-parter on that. Brandon Sanderson You can ask me the next part, but it is a RAFO. Questioner Is his end goal trying to join as many pieces of Adonalsium together to *inaudible* Brandon Sanderson Um, that, I will give a "that's a very good guess." And that is what the books seem to indicate is happening. Salt Lake City ComicCon 2017 (Sept. 21, 2017) 2 hours ago, Zxevicus M. Cortillius said: ? . (I don’t actually know what this is supposed to mean.) 1 hour ago, Frustration said: you should probably do a bit more polish on them before posting as a couple of these have little basis within the books, or have been confirmed and are thus no longer speculation. I agree with Frustration here. (It can sometimes be frustrating when he discredits your theory.) All in all, I think a lot of this evidence isn’t as clear cut as you think, and it feels like a more unlikely outcome. Although, the general concept is still fully possible (maybe not the stuff with Dalinar). Edited February 7 by Qianweilian 1
Aliroz-The-Confused Posted February 7 Posted February 7 (It's okay, Xzevicus, the forumites here destroy all theories (it's why I don't make theory threads anymore). I think your theory is a good one.) 2
Trusk'our he/him Posted February 7 Posted February 7 11 minutes ago, Aliroz-The-Confused said: (It's okay, Xzevicus, the forumites here destroy all theories (it's why I don't make theory threads anymore). I think your theory is a good one.) Yeah, we usually do. But, it's all because we love being Ruin's little minions deep down, so it's okay. 2
Zxevicus M. Cortillius Posted February 7 Author Posted February 7 44 minutes ago, Aliroz-The-Confused said: (It's okay, Xzevicus, the forumites here destroy all theories (it's why I don't make theory threads anymore). I think your theory is a good one.) thank you 32 minutes ago, Trusk'our said: Yeah, we usually do. But, it's all because we love being Ruin's little minions deep down, so it's okay. Ruin lmao 1 hour ago, Qianweilian said: Brandon has explicitly said there will be an “end” to the Cosmere. Whether that means a radical change after which he doesn’t write further, destruction, or something else, I doubt that it will be cyclical as WoT. Dalinar is dead, unfortunately. While the Blackthornspren leaves some possibility, I doubt it will just replace him. Possible, but half of the original vessels are dead. I don’t get the “monster” part of this? Also, the resultant shard with a somewhat subsumed vessel will still have issues from friction. Wheel of Time Spoilers Reveal hidden contents Rand doesn’t “surrender his god-like power.” The thing with Moridin was entirely unintentional and he was arguably more powerful after the fact. There are many theories about this, go read them. Doubt it. See #1. Also he appears to be less interested in “multiverse” type stuff (not exactly the same thing, but same vibes). This WoB suggests that Hoid is at least cordial with the idea of reforming Adonalsium. Although it’s still not a lot. . (I don’t actually know what this is supposed to mean.) I agree with Frustration here. (It can sometimes be frustrating when he discredits your theory.) All in all, I think a lot of this evidence isn’t as clear cut as you think, and it feels like a more unlikely outcome. Although, the general concept is still fully possible (maybe not the stuff with Dalinar). a lot said
Qianweilian He/him Posted February 7 Posted February 7 34 minutes ago, Trusk'our said: But, it's all because we love being Ruin's little minions deep down, so it's okay. I’ll remind you of one of my previous pfps. It was a picture of me dressed in an awesome steel inquisitor costume. Unfortunately, it’s a bit dark, so too hard to tell what it is without significant editing. 2 minutes ago, Zxevicus M. Cortillius said: Ruin lmao Ati was, by all accounts, an extremely kind and generous man. 1
Zxevicus M. Cortillius Posted February 7 Author Posted February 7 12 minutes ago, Qianweilian said: I’ll remind you of one of my previous pfps. It was a picture of me dressed in an awesome steel inquisitor costume. Unfortunately, it’s a bit dark, so too hard to tell what it is without significant editing. Ati was, by all accounts, an extremely kind and generous man. Steel inquisitors the hermalurgy guys
Trusk'our he/him Posted February 7 Posted February 7 1 minute ago, Zxevicus M. Cortillius said: Steel inquisitors the hermalurgy guys Yup, the ones with spikes through the eye sockets. 1
Zxevicus M. Cortillius Posted February 7 Author Posted February 7 37 minutes ago, Trusk'our said: Yup, the ones with spikes through the eye sockets. The ones that haunt my brothers dreams
Nitpicking Posted February 8 Posted February 8 Sorry, but it's really obvious that "Nohadon", the one who spoke to Dalinar in visions and helped him through emotional crises, is Frost the dragon. By "obvious" I mean that it's my pet theory.
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