Salmon Meerkat Posted January 7 Posted January 7 Sorry I was gone for the end of the last day, but you guys did fine without me! Always great to open on a good note. I don't have a lot to say right now, other than my dislike of Gecko's vote justification. Maybe e!<Gecko, Dragonfly>? Seems kind of giveaway... I dunno. ----------- Dugh was tired. It had been an exhausting day. He wasn't sure who was guilty, but at least they had found 1. So he went to sleep.Â
Sapphire Elephant Posted January 7 Posted January 7 1 hour ago, Taupe Gecko said: H.E.A.R.T.H greeted Klin. "The Kangaroo is dead. She was evil - and executed in a hammer train led by me, the Beagle, the Heron, and the Dragonfly. The Dragonfly has claimed Lurcher." "How did you figure out she was evil?" Klin asked.
Oxblood Beagle Posted January 7 Posted January 7 2 hours ago, Sapphire Elephant said: Klin awoke with a yawn. "Does anyone want an Honorblade?" he asked. "It's only 400 boxings." Levin had thoughts to process in his head as he tried to evaluate the events that led up to the charlatan, Kangaroo, being exposed. But there were certainly a lot that was said and accusations thrown around, so he needed a little respite from the brainstorming. So, he exited his quarters and saw the merchant, who was still selling Honorblades eagerly day and night. "Do you offer a discount or a special offer? Like a buy one-take one sort of deal," he asked. 400 boxings was not really out of his budget, but he remembered a memory in a past homeworld. There were merchants who sold wares at an exorbitant price and tried to fool unwary customers that the expense was worth every single boxing. His father had been one such unfortunate victim, who kept spending money on shoddy items. While his father had a job that earned a fair wage, they could hardly save anything and it had the consequence of leading Levin and his siblings to work at a young age, instead of being educated. And so, he was wary of merchants even in this new lease of life, but he couldn't deny that they had their place in society. Not all of them were malicious.
Jo and the Bush all/any Posted January 7 Posted January 7 For the newer folks here, if you have a Night time action available to you that you wish to use, please tell us in your AG12 PM, and please phrase it as an order. If you say "Can I do action x on target y?" We won't know if that is you trying to figure out possibilities, or if that is you placing an order. Please make it absolutely clear what you want to do. Preferably before the last 11 minutes of the turn. If you are a Coinshot, Lurcher, Smoker, Seeker, or Kandra, you have night time actions available to you.
Saffron Iguana Posted January 7 Posted January 7 Just now, A Jo in the Bush said: If you are a Coinshot, Lurcher, Smoker, Seeker, or Kandra, you have night time actions available to you. Notably, if you are a Saboteur, you don't have access to a kill action.
Ivory Dragonfly Posted January 7 Posted January 7 No PM = V! Kandra? We won't know. 48 minutes ago, Salmon Meerkat said:  dislike of Gecko's vote justification. Maybe e!<Gecko, +1 Last 11 minutes of the turn Trying to figure out possibilities. "Target y + x" ≠"target y". Â
Taupe Gecko Posted January 7 Posted January 7 52 minutes ago, Salmon Meerkat said: I don't have a lot to say right now, other than my dislike of Gecko's vote justification. Maybe e!<Gecko, Dragonfly>? Seems kind of giveaway... I dunno … did you read End of Day? Me and Dragonfly were two of the main campaigners for Kangaroo’s death 35 minutes ago, Sapphire Elephant said: "How did you figure out she was evil?" Klin asked. … did you read the writeup? Guys for anyone who didn’t know when a character dies, their fate, alignment (good or evil) and role are all revealed in the writeup In this case: 12 hours ago, The Unknown Medallion said: Sage Kangaroo was executed. They were a Saboteur Seeker! Right there If you don’t wanna get bogged down by the flavor just make sure to read what’s after the … @Melon Dingo I’ll read through your vote analysis when I have time and I’m not sleepy, hopefully tomorrow morning before rollover … There were only a few hours left in the night as H.E.A.R.T.H wheeled back into its charging port. It was a small chamber, hardly the soft beds the rest of the crew got. Funny. It had never thought about that before. As the ship’s only automaton, H.E.A.R.T.H had to charge three times in a cycle - two at day, one at night. Of course, night and day were only constructs in the void of space. As it made its way, it heard a debate down a side passage about the selling of some sort of blade, and ignored it. At last, it reached its destination. The boy had slept in a tent. No, He had slept in a tent. The One Who Was Now H.E.A.R.T.H. He had slept in many tents in his life, but one stood out. One he had shared. The mountain chill tried to break in from outside, but inside it was warm. It felt like home. H.E.A.R.T.H had never known home, it thought, as its code faded and gave way to memories once more. Â
Mint Heron Posted January 7 Posted January 7 26 minutes ago, Melon Dingo said: Heron on Dingo (no reason) This entire thread continues to be allergic to reading I see  I distinctly recall being told I voted without reason yesterday as well, even after I already stated my thought processes. Yesterday it was me pointing repeatedly to Dragonfly having Lurcher claimed, today it is me pointing out I gave no reasoning at the point of vote but explained my vote subsequently because someone asked me: On 1/6/2026 at 8:21 AM, Mint Heron said: violet is pretty simple given my df and ocho priors - at the time i wrote my post, the guy before me ninjaed me so i was working on the assumption it'd create a three way tie with ample time in the cycle to see how people reacted/voted. i felt axl had a vote that read a little potentially opportunistic on kanga (doubled up on ig.) croc was the other option but uh we kinda d1 the croc ac a lot and i don't share zebra's croc read atp. tldr; wanted to create a tie early (...earlier) in the cycle to see where people were going, and between axl and croc, i sussed axl more off voting patterns I didn't move subsequently because, as I was saying in 90% of EoD, I didn't want DF to die, and didn't want to leave enough room for vote manip to kill DF. (I also had some low-key paranoia that Gecko was trying to engineer a CW to save Axl/kill DF which is why I kept asking about the train sizes at EoD so I could cross-check what Gecko had in mind.) I will say I have a weak V lean on Dingo for this read given I'm probably responsible for getting the train off DF, which maybe helps me a little as Dingo's "I was actually there all along" got me to theorise a world in which E!Dingo lurked to see if Kanga could be saved but then demurred given Gecko and I were lurking and mentioning a potential counter-hammer into Kanga. (Weak because I don't feel confident ruling this world out just yet.) 4 hours ago, Onyx Flamingo said: Because that isn't a good way to find elims. It can give a possible e!lean, but I never think (unless there is previous info present) that it shoukd be the whole reason. Icl this makes me wary of Flamingo tonally. It's giving "this isn't the correct way to find me" response which normally skews E. 22 minutes ago, Taupe Gecko said: "What counter train? The one upon Kangaroo? I beg to differ. The formation of that train was so sudden, so unexpected, so unreasoned, so glorious in its spontaneity that it was almost certainly entire comprised of loyal crewmembers - at least in the votes that came following the suggestions of the Beagle and I." 23 hours ago, A Jo in the Bush said: Violet Axolotl (4): Onyx Flamingo, Mint Heron, Melon Dingo, Mauve Crocodile Sunburst Toucan (1): Ivory Dragonfly Sapphire Elephant (2): Sunburst Toucan, Oxblood Beagle Salmon Meerkat (2): Sapphire Elephant, Magenta Albatross Sage Kangaroo (3): Salmon Meerkat, Saffron Iguana, Indigo Weasel Mauve Crocodile (1): Quartz Zebra Ivory Dragonfly (4): Violet Axolotl, Taupe Gecko, Scarlet Octopus, Sage Kangaroo This was maybe half an hour shy of the 36-hour mark. Kanga had at least 1-3 votes on prior btw, and Ig and Meerkat dipped after voting. It is entirely possible one of them voted to distance and simply never returned. What is definitely the case is at most 2 in <Saffron Ig, Meerkat, Weasel> are Elim, and in that world it is more likely to be Ig and Meerkat than it is to be Weasel and one of the two. (There's actually something interesting there I suppose since Ig calls out Meerkat's reasoning but votes alongside Meerkat - I think Weasel pointed this out as well. Anyway Ig's last post for the cycle has them shifting their vote after this vc: By this point, DF has shifted 36 minutes ago to Axl so Ig is actually seeing a 5/4 train landscape on Axl. Ig's response is to move their vote off Kanga and to park on Octo, which has the effect of decreasing the relative CW sizes. We go from: Quote Violet Axolotl (5): Onyx Flamingo, Mint Heron, Melon Dingo, Mauve Crocodile, Ivory Dragonfly Sapphire Elephant (2): Sunburst Toucan, Oxblood Beagle Salmon Meerkat (2): Sapphire Elephant, Magenta Albatross Sage Kangaroo (3): Salmon Meerkat, Saffron Iguana, Indigo Weasel Mauve Crocodile (1): Quartz Zebra Ivory Dragonfly (4): Violet Axolotl, Taupe Gecko, Scarlet Octopus, Sage Kangaroo to: Quote Violet Axolotl (5): Onyx Flamingo, Mint Heron, Melon Dingo, Mauve Crocodile, Ivory Dragonfly Sapphire Elephant (2): Sunburst Toucan, Oxblood Beagle Salmon Meerkat (2): Sapphire Elephant, Magenta Albatross Sage Kangaroo (2): Salmon Meerkat, Indigo Weasel Mauve Crocodile (1): Quartz Zebra Scarlet Octopus (1): Saffron Iguana Ivory Dragonfly (4): Violet Axolotl, Taupe Gecko, Scarlet Octopus, Sage Kangaroo Which numerically is a very safe sidetrain to park on for the rest of the day, and as Dragonfly points out, Ig does acknowledge this since that's what they sus Octo for but also wind up doing: 21 hours ago, Saffron Iguana said: In particular, Scarlet Octo hasn't really given much more past their original vote, despite things changing a bit since then. Seems like a "I found an easy vote so I'll just sit on it" kinda attitude. Not that I'm one to talk, but what can you do. And yeah I se DF clarifies this is what they had in mind, ty DF. 3 hours ago, Ivory Dragonfly said: Plum Rhinoceros (Saffron Iguana) Was greeted by a scene of chaos Had to change. Was in no position to do that. I think this is a fair observation btw. Rhino did in fact post thoughts. IDK if E!Rhino has the capacity to case someone else at EoD but Elim freezing at chaotic EoDs is definitely a thing too. 8 hours ago, Sunburst Toucan said: Sapphire Elephant Violet Axolotl I'd like some pressure on Toucan tomorrow btw. Toucan showing up to do just this is weird to me - I'm not fully convinced that Alb night voting here isn't performative (sorry Alb) but this is doubly so for Toucan. I get the sense I'm meant to think Toucan is this disconnected from the thread rather than Toucan actually being this disconnected. 11 hours ago, The Unknown Medallion said: Violet Axolotl (4); Onyx Flamingo, Mint Heron, Melon Dingo, Mauve Crocodile Scarlet Octopus (1); Saffron Iguana Sapphire Elephant (1); Sunburst Toucan Salmon Meerkat (2); Sapphire Elephant, Magenta Albatross Sage Kangaroo (5); TIEBREAKER, Salmon Meerkat, Oxblood Beagle, Ivory Dragonfly, Indigo Weasel Mauve Crocodile (1); Quartz Zebra Ivory Dragonfly (2); Violet Axolotl, Scarlet Octopus Indigo Weasel (2); Taupe Gecko, Sage Kangaroo Given the OG votestate everyone was working off (depends on whether the Elims realised there were six on Kanga at EoD I guess), I'm crack theorising a world where one of the Elims ran off Gecko's votestate count and said "Hey guys we need a CW" and Toucan sees it in the doc and just votes without catching up. (The weirdness to me is - how does a player who dropped a vote and vanished also suddenly return having formed a strong opinion to vote on one of the largest EoD trains? Why does Axl look suspicious here? This reads to me like Toucan is actually following the thread or following instructions from someone. This can be explained by a doc going kayana about Kanga suddenly being endangered and considering Axl as a CW.) As an aside, I find Kanga's EoD vote odd - Kanga doesn't self-pres onto Axl which you think would be the logical CW here. Kanga votes on Weasel. I guess it's entirely possible Kanga was intending to hammer and got scared off by Gecko mentioning a counter-hammer. But I can see a world E!Kanga accepts going over and votes on Weasel to try to implicate V!Axl (I feel that unless Axl is an E!PR that is better than Kanga's, Kanga probably just CWs onto Axl here reasoning that whichever of them dies, the other one gets sweet distancing points.) Though I guess it's also possible Kanga is just very behind on the votestate since Kanga here seems to be responding to Gecko's ping. Side-note: 2 hours ago, A Jo in the Bush said: This vote count is just slightly wrong. I missed Taupe Gecko voting on Sage Kangaroo. It turns out the Tiebreaker was not needed, as Sage Kangaroo did in fact have 5 votes on them, and Indigo Weasel should have only had 1. Luckily for everyone, that changes nothing. To me, this indicates Gecko and Kanga are unlikely E/E. In an E!Kanga world, the Elim team is most likely acutely aware of votes on their teammates, and Gecko agreeing to actually bus Kanga here instead of just actually engineering the tie is less likely. ( @Ivory Dragonfly - I don't fully agree with the Gecko sus you mentioned so I'm trying to lay out my reasoning here. Not saying Gecko can't be Evil but not near my top suspect.)' Less likely because the main E!Gecko worlds here require Gecko to have just been mistaken about one of the late vote switches (still possible), or for Axl to be a more valuable Elim PR (Coinshot? Mistborn? Ig? IDK. Them being willing to yield a Seeker to potentially any Village Kandra lurking out there is strange to me regardless but this could be a best of a bad lot world.) I just think that given Gecko was willing to instigate a CW that got an Elim dead (via Beagle), unless Axl is some major E!PR, I think that should give Gecko some Village credit. It's true that Gecko wanted a Weasel vote, but Gecko was still willing to do the Kanga CW instead. 11 hours ago, The Unknown Medallion said: Violet Axolotl (4); Onyx Flamingo, Mint Heron, Melon Dingo, Mauve Crocodile Scarlet Octopus (1); Saffron Iguana Sapphire Elephant (1); Sunburst Toucan Salmon Meerkat (2); Sapphire Elephant, Magenta Albatross Sage Kangaroo (5); Taupe Gecko, Salmon Meerkat, Oxblood Beagle, Ivory Dragonfly, Indigo Weasel Mauve Crocodile (1); Quartz Zebra Ivory Dragonfly (2); Violet Axolotl, Scarlet Octopus Indigo Weasel (1); Sage Kangaroo @A Jo in the Bush / @The Unknown Medallion - Btw, could you put some version of the amended votes into the OP? I'm concerned people might use the wrong EoD votes when doing analysis after I'm too dead to yell at them for doing it; I just think we also need to keep the OG error version somewhere because that's what people might be working with. For similar reasons, I feel like Kanga's willingness to vote on Weasel might be indicative they're not paired (though I independently am weak V!reading Weasel for that Kanga vote at nearly 12 hours left in the cycle regardless.) TLDR; FOR PEOPLE ALLERGIC TO READING: This is a 'if I die tonight' kind of wishlist / semi-readslist because I have things to do and might not be able to finish it: Lean weak V on Weasel for hard Kanga statement and vote on D1. Less likely for Weasel to be distancing given the train sizes at the point they signed off for the night and added an unnecessary third vote to Kanga, also given the hardness of Kanga sus statement. (Note: Weasel isn't really a Village whip by nature so I'm also not holding it against them that they didn't whip votes to Kanga.) Do not hardclear Weasel, but don't para(noia) exe Weasel this fast. Weasel is a helpful player. DF is probably V. I really liked DF's second post. For people who still aren't catching up with what DF said, DF actually stated outright in their second post that they sussed Octo for saying they'd have to guess until they found solid evidence. I immediately sympathised with/had a mindmeld with that position because requiring solid evidence to back a vote is a phrase that tends to come more from an Elim (see also my concerns with Flamingo earlier.) This is part of the reason I was not down with DF sus yesterday and stated as much. DON'T SLEEPWALK INTO A DF PARANOIA EXE, TYRIAN LURCHERS IN THIS GAME ARE NOT IMMORTAL, YES I KNOW ABOUT THE TARGETING RULE. IYKYK. Weak sus on Flamingo. I don't really like this response from Flamingo in terms of PoE not being sufficient evidence - as I said, it's giving very Elim "this isn't the right way to find me." At the same time, I concede Flamingo is correct that they voted on a CW to DF; however, we also don't know if that CW is Village (there are some E!Axl worlds) so Flamingo suggesting this gives them V!credit is weird to me because Flamingo stayed put on the Axl train at 11 minutes to EoD which indicates Flamingo made a conscious decision to remain on a train that also ended up being a CW to Kanga. (I would in fact argue that even in V!Axl worlds, Flamingo's vote would remain fixed: it's more important to Flamingo at that time of EoD that a Villager dies, and Flamingo might be concerned that shifting votes to endanger the v!Lurcher looks worse.) Lean weak V on Zebra. I acknowledge it's a perverse argument, but functionally Zebra had an early pressure test post I liked, and while I don't agree with Zebra's reasoning, I slightly am inclined to believe it emerges from a Villager headspace. Weak sus on Croc. Croc had a positive read/weak defence on Kanga, which I felt probably the polar opposite about. The vc at the time Croc swapped (you can reference this off the Croc post I linked) was 4/3 on DF to Kanga, and Croc voted on Axl, making the trains 4/3/3. I can see a world this is meant to protect Kanga, whom Croc self-admittedly V!reads. Kanga does in fact take a bone that Croc throws to them, which makes me wonder if this is a teammate interaction. Moderate V on Beagle. Think Beagle has been sensible in general and suggesting and being down with introducing Kanga as a CW does a lot for them in my eyes. Mild to moderate V on Gecko. I think there's a world E!Gecko suggested a CW to try to get votes off Axl and it's true Gecko called for a Weasel tie instead. In that world, Gecko is fine rolling the dice. However, Gecko was unaware of the actual Kanga votes, and was willing to vote on the Kanga CW. We can debate how much that's an Elim feeling forced by the Village, but given that Gecko fundamentally did something that led to a pro-Village outcome, and I think an E!Gecko/E!Kanga world is one where Kanga doesn't die (Gecko doesn't tell me to be aware of a hammer and just asks Kanga to belatedly hammer Axl, or just gives me the wrong train sizes), I would say "don't hardclear" (generally a very good principle in a Tyrian game regardless, particularly an AG  ) but that it's perverse not to give Village credit for doing Villagery things. This can be a 'revise later if necessary' type of read and anyway that's how tiered PoE works regardless. Lean v. weak V on Dingo, maybe null. I think that pushing me here feels more Villagery in that IDK if an Elim decides to do this after EoD yesterday (some would, tbf.) At the same time, Dingo's self-admitted EoD lurking doesn't make me feel comfortable either, because of the potential "Elim froze at chaotic EoD" energy. (I guess you could say E!Dingo doesn't admit this, I'm not sure.) Weak sus on Albatross. I wish I had a reason for this but I don't, which is ironic given we somewhat agree on Flamingo. I'll try to figure out why, I just don't...feel great about Alb for whatever reason. [Later Heron: I think it might be that I feel Alb is V!reading me a bit too easily/quickly off what was more or less moving thread engagement. I'm not sure.] Weak sus on Iguana. I agree with DF on Iguana - in short, Iguana logs off for the night and moves vote off Kanga and onto a convenient sidetrain, and lampshades they're sussing Octo for the same thing as they're doing. There's a kind of self-consciousness there I'm not sure I like the more I think about it and this fundamentally ends up protecting Kanga. Weak sus on Toucan. I feel this vote from Toucan doesn't make sense. A player who has vanished from the game with only two very early D1 posts should not be updated enough on the game to have an opinion on an EoD train, much less to feel comfortable about voting on one of the largest EoD trains. This to me suggests that Toucan is either following the game more than they're letting on (i.e. lurking) or that Toucan was prompted to by panicking teammates and was out of touch enough not to realise it. (Though tbh given the vote is 4.5 hours after EoD, it just feels performative or Village cred fishing to me too.) Neutral to slight sus on Ele. Ele hedging on DF [1][2] but ultimately pushing Meerkat isn't something I feel comfortable with - there's slight "Elim not wanting to incriminate self by committing to position on lead train about to flip Village" energy to it given the time Ele gave views on DF. Ele's argument that an Elim doesn't like to attract attention is...correct for certain Elims, and I give Ele some V!credit for it, but Ele also voted Meerkat for being too willing to change votes, just in a way that didn't grab attention. Null on Opal Lion. Don't think they've shown up. Null to slight sus on Plum Rhino. I take DF's point wrt potential Elim freeze response in Rhino; however, I am not sure E!Rhino has the capacity to case Octo at EoD. Might very well be true but I'm /shrug on this for now. Rhino mentioned being busy on D1 so what I want to see is more alignment-indicative content from Rhino going into D2. I will say that I agree with Rhino's thought process in their second post - I don't like the solid evidence phrasing either as I indicated earlier, and I feel like Octo thinking that DF is making a defensive vote switch at SoD - this is a p1 post - is minimally uncharitable and reads a bit "you treat me badly I treat you badly." Weak sus on Octo. I agree with DF - Octo's statement on solid evidence and just guessing at SoD reads Elim-coded to me, because it comes from a very defensive mindset from the get-go. I had wondered if I was being too uncharitable to Octo given that Octo's sus on DF for changing their vote for what was clearly a response to Octo rather than a naked vote, but Kanga also making the same assertion made me more neutral about it. In light of Kanga flipping E, I cannot give that benefit of the doubt anymore. As a side-note, Kanga does state trust of Octo. Given Kanga's thread confidence, I can see this being E/E. Octo being confident enough to say EoD "clears Dragonfly" (which Gecko picks up on) is making me wonder if that's an E!slip btw. I have difficulty seeing this confidence level coming from a player who starts the game being worried about solid evidence. Octo then repeatedly asking for "our top suspects" is odd to me - why the urgency? Why do you "need to know" who the top suspects are and "who we think the saboteurs are most likely to kill"? Shouldn't you be doing your own reads, given you also had a view on DF anyway, indicating you're at least partly caught up on the thread? In summation: Beagle / DF Gecko / Weasel Zebra Dingo Lion Rhino / Alb / Ele Iguana / Octo / Toucan / Croc / Flamingo I have a lot more suspicions than is normal for me but I guess sometimes life's just like that. Not ordered within tiers, this is just my way of talking about who I'd pressure first tomorrow, and who I think should be only gotten to in later revisions, e.g. don't revise Beagle until late-game, Beagle should probably be dead before that regardless. Anyway goodnight all, I think I don't have time for RP after all, sorry about that but I gotta do stuff. Heron logging off. EDITED TO ADD: FML forgot Axl. Current Axl view is: null, maybe a tiny bit of sus. I think pretty much any E!Gecko world requires E!Axl btw. I'd like an answer ( @Violet Axolotl ) on whether Axl knew that DF had claimed Lurcher and just Axl's whole mindset about that self-pres vote. There's a lot of attention in their posts to how they are being perceived. I just think that the train size on Axl before the switch also indicates the Elims were comfortable with this which should point to V!Axl...unless Gecko is E. Anyway I was struggling back and forth with whether Axl's response to DF is V or E, I might lean V after all in terms of Axl still being willing to self-pres onto DF but that depends on whether Axl saw the claim so /shrug. 9 hours ago, Violet Axolotl said: Wow My heart was racing as I was reading through the end of the day there I don't like this. It feels very performative and reminiscent of Kanga's EoD - you would've been told by the GMs if you were dead so why would you be scared of EoD and why are you so invested in staying alive? Beagle / DF Gecko / Weasel Zebra Dingo Lion / Axl Rhino / Alb / Ele Iguana / Octo / Toucan / Croc / Flamingo
Oxblood Beagle Posted January 7 Posted January 7 While waiting for the merchant to sell him the Honorblade at a more reasonable price, Levin ran through the remaining passengers in his head to try and piece through who the accomplices were to the sabotage that occurred aboard the SS TYRIAN. There were a few passengers who he was highly inclined to trust. These were the Weasel, Dragonfly, Gecko, and Meerkat. Each had contributed to finding out the allegiance of the Kangaroo. The Meerkat, he was least confident about since he stayed in his room for half the day, but nonetheless, he felt he could trust him at the moment. Outside of those passengers, there were other passengers that he had some level of trust in mind. These were the Zebra and Heron. The Heron questioned the accusations leveled against the Dragonfly and had shown willingness to support the tide against the Kangaroo. There were a few he had mixed feelings of. He wanted to have the insight of the other passengers if these people were innocent as well. The Octopus had been the only person the Kangaroo had mentioned that they explicitly trusted. He wondered if the Kangaroo would truly prop a comrade up as trustworthy without mixing that statement with other innocent passengers to hide their lie. On the other hand, the Axolotl had been another target of the accusations. It might be possible the saboteurs were fine with them being thrown overboard since it wasn't one of their own. Some passengers he could not get much of a read of. The Chameleon and Lion were still keeping to themselves in their rooms. Moreover, the Rhinoceros and Toucan did go out, but said little to contribute to solving the mystery. Finally, there were a few passengers he had some suspicion of. The Elephant did not give much reason for Levin's opinion of him to change. Meanwhile, the Iguana interestingly pointed their finger at another direction at a rather opportune time when the Weasel raised suspicion of the Kangaroo and bringing them closer to being exposed. The Flamingo did contribute too to the accusation on Axolotl and sustained that until the end of the day. Of the others who had participated in accusing Axolotl, the two remaining passengers had stated a little trust toward the Kangaroo for reasons that Levin felt were a little flimsy. He was confused with the reasons the Dingo stated for trusting the Kangaroo when it seemed like the way he described it suggested otherwise. Similarly, the Crocodile shared that one of the reasons Kangaroo might be innocent was for taking note of who accused who? It seemed an odd name to add when his other statements on some passengers were more elaborated on. While the Albatross didn't accuse the Axolotl, he also shared an innocent perception of the Kangaroo for similar reasons. These six passengers would most likely be the people he was going to look at eagerly once the day broke. Until then, he would hopefully obtain an Honorblade and retire in his room to be well-rested for it.
Onyx Flamingo Posted January 7 Posted January 7 1 hour ago, Mint Heron said: This entire thread continues to be allergic to reading I see  I distinctly recall being told I voted without reason yesterday as well, even after I already stated my thought processes. Yesterday it was me pointing repeatedly to Dragonfly having Lurcher claimed, today it is me pointing out I gave no reasoning at the point of vote but explained my vote subsequently because someone asked me: tldr; wanted to create a tie early (...earlier) in the cycle to see where people were going, and between axl and croc, i sussed axl more off voting patterns I didn't move subsequently because, as I was saying in 90% of EoD, I didn't want DF to die, and didn't want to leave enough room for vote manip to kill DF. (I also had some low-key paranoia that Gecko was trying to engineer a CW to save Axl/kill DF which is why I kept asking about the train sizes at EoD so I could cross-check what Gecko had in mind.) I will say I have a weak V lean on Dingo for this read given I'm probably responsible for getting the train off DF, which maybe helps me a little as Dingo's "I was actually there all along" got me to theorise a world in which E!Dingo lurked to see if Kanga could be saved but then demurred given Gecko and I were lurking and mentioning a potential counter-hammer into Kanga. (Weak because I don't feel confident ruling this world out just yet.) Icl this makes me wary of Flamingo tonally. It's giving "this isn't the correct way to find me" response which normally skews E. This was maybe half an hour shy of the 36-hour mark. Kanga had at least 1-3 votes on prior btw, and Ig and Meerkat dipped after voting. It is entirely possible one of them voted to distance and simply never returned. What is definitely the case is at most 2 in <Saffron Ig, Meerkat, Weasel> are Elim, and in that world it is more likely to be Ig and Meerkat than it is to be Weasel and one of the two. (There's actually something interesting there I suppose since Ig calls out Meerkat's reasoning but votes alongside Meerkat - I think Weasel pointed this out as well. Anyway Ig's last post for the cycle has them shifting their vote after this vc: By this point, DF has shifted 36 minutes ago to Axl so Ig is actually seeing a 5/4 train landscape on Axl. Ig's response is to move their vote off Kanga and to park on Octo, which has the effect of decreasing the relative CW sizes. We go from: to: Which numerically is a very safe sidetrain to park on for the rest of the day, and as Dragonfly points out, Ig does acknowledge this since that's what they sus Octo for but also wind up doing: And yeah I se DF clarifies this is what they had in mind, ty DF. I think this is a fair observation btw. Rhino did in fact post thoughts. IDK if E!Rhino has the capacity to case someone else at EoD but Elim freezing at chaotic EoDs is definitely a thing too. I'd like some pressure on Toucan tomorrow btw. Toucan showing up to do just this is weird to me - I'm not fully convinced that Alb night voting here isn't performative (sorry Alb) but this is doubly so for Toucan. I get the sense I'm meant to think Toucan is this disconnected from the thread rather than Toucan actually being this disconnected. Given the OG votestate everyone was working off (depends on whether the Elims realised there were six on Kanga at EoD I guess), I'm crack theorising a world where one of the Elims ran off Gecko's votestate count and said "Hey guys we need a CW" and Toucan sees it in the doc and just votes without catching up. (The weirdness to me is - how does a player who dropped a vote and vanished also suddenly return having formed a strong opinion to vote on one of the largest EoD trains? Why does Axl look suspicious here? This reads to me like Toucan is actually following the thread or following instructions from someone. This can be explained by a doc going kayana about Kanga suddenly being endangered and considering Axl as a CW.) As an aside, I find Kanga's EoD vote odd - Kanga doesn't self-pres onto Axl which you think would be the logical CW here. Kanga votes on Weasel. I guess it's entirely possible Kanga was intending to hammer and got scared off by Gecko mentioning a counter-hammer. But I can see a world E!Kanga accepts going over and votes on Weasel to try to implicate V!Axl (I feel that unless Axl is an E!PR that is better than Kanga's, Kanga probably just CWs onto Axl here reasoning that whichever of them dies, the other one gets sweet distancing points.) Though I guess it's also possible Kanga is just very behind on the votestate since Kanga here seems to be responding to Gecko's ping. Side-note: To me, this indicates Gecko and Kanga are unlikely E/E. In an E!Kanga world, the Elim team is most likely acutely aware of votes on their teammates, and Gecko agreeing to actually bus Kanga here instead of just actually engineering the tie is less likely. ( @Ivory Dragonfly - I don't fully agree with the Gecko sus you mentioned so I'm trying to lay out my reasoning here. Not saying Gecko can't be Evil but not near my top suspect.)' Less likely because the main E!Gecko worlds here require Gecko to have just been mistaken about one of the late vote switches (still possible), or for Axl to be a more valuable Elim PR (Coinshot? Mistborn? Ig? IDK. Them being willing to yield a Seeker to potentially any Village Kandra lurking out there is strange to me regardless but this could be a best of a bad lot world.) I just think that given Gecko was willing to instigate a CW that got an Elim dead (via Beagle), unless Axl is some major E!PR, I think that should give Gecko some Village credit. It's true that Gecko wanted a Weasel vote, but Gecko was still willing to do the Kanga CW instead. @A Jo in the Bush / @The Unknown Medallion - Btw, could you put some version of the amended votes into the OP? I'm concerned people might use the wrong EoD votes when doing analysis after I'm too dead to yell at them for doing it; I just think we also need to keep the OG error version somewhere because that's what people might be working with. For similar reasons, I feel like Kanga's willingness to vote on Weasel might be indicative they're not paired (though I independently am weak V!reading Weasel for that Kanga vote at nearly 12 hours left in the cycle regardless.)  TLDR; FOR PEOPLE ALLERGIC TO READING: This is a 'if I die tonight' kind of wishlist / semi-readslist because I have things to do and might not be able to finish it: Lean weak V on Weasel for hard Kanga statement and vote on D1. Less likely for Weasel to be distancing given the train sizes at the point they signed off for the night and added an unnecessary third vote to Kanga, also given the hardness of Kanga sus statement. (Note: Weasel isn't really a Village whip by nature so I'm also not holding it against them that they didn't whip votes to Kanga.) Do not hardclear Weasel, but don't para(noia) exe Weasel this fast. Weasel is a helpful player. DF is probably V. I really liked DF's second post. For people who still aren't catching up with what DF said, DF actually stated outright in their second post that they sussed Octo for saying they'd have to guess until they found solid evidence. I immediately sympathised with/had a mindmeld with that position because requiring solid evidence to back a vote is a phrase that tends to come more from an Elim (see also my concerns with Flamingo earlier.) This is part of the reason I was not down with DF sus yesterday and stated as much. DON'T SLEEPWALK INTO A DF PARANOIA EXE, TYRIAN LURCHERS IN THIS GAME ARE NOT IMMORTAL, YES I KNOW ABOUT THE TARGETING RULE. IYKYK. Weak sus on Flamingo. I don't really like this response from Flamingo in terms of PoE not being sufficient evidence - as I said, it's giving very Elim "this isn't the right way to find me." At the same time, I concede Flamingo is correct that they voted on a CW to DF; however, we also don't know if that CW is Village (there are some E!Axl worlds) so Flamingo suggesting this gives them V!credit is weird to me because Flamingo stayed put on the Axl train at 11 minutes to EoD which indicates Flamingo made a conscious decision to remain on a train that also ended up being a CW to Kanga. (I would in fact argue that even in V!Axl worlds, Flamingo's vote would remain fixed: it's more important to Flamingo at that time of EoD that a Villager dies, and Flamingo might be concerned that shifting votes to endanger the v!Lurcher looks worse.) Lean weak V on Zebra. I acknowledge it's a perverse argument, but functionally Zebra had an early pressure test post I liked, and while I don't agree with Zebra's reasoning, I slightly am inclined to believe it emerges from a Villager headspace. Weak sus on Croc. Croc had a positive read/weak defence on Kanga, which I felt probably the polar opposite about. The vc at the time Croc swapped (you can reference this off the Croc post I linked) was 4/3 on DF to Kanga, and Croc voted on Axl, making the trains 4/3/3. I can see a world this is meant to protect Kanga, whom Croc self-admittedly V!reads. Kanga does in fact take a bone that Croc throws to them, which makes me wonder if this is a teammate interaction. Moderate V on Beagle. Think Beagle has been sensible in general and suggesting and being down with introducing Kanga as a CW does a lot for them in my eyes. Mild to moderate V on Gecko. I think there's a world E!Gecko suggested a CW to try to get votes off Axl and it's true Gecko called for a Weasel tie instead. In that world, Gecko is fine rolling the dice. However, Gecko was unaware of the actual Kanga votes, and was willing to vote on the Kanga CW. We can debate how much that's an Elim feeling forced by the Village, but given that Gecko fundamentally did something that led to a pro-Village outcome, and I think an E!Gecko/E!Kanga world is one where Kanga doesn't die (Gecko doesn't tell me to be aware of a hammer and just asks Kanga to belatedly hammer Axl, or just gives me the wrong train sizes), I would say "don't hardclear" (generally a very good principle in a Tyrian game regardless, particularly an AG  ) but that it's perverse not to give Village credit for doing Villagery things. This can be a 'revise later if necessary' type of read and anyway that's how tiered PoE works regardless. Lean v. weak V on Dingo, maybe null. I think that pushing me here feels more Villagery in that IDK if an Elim decides to do this after EoD yesterday (some would, tbf.) At the same time, Dingo's self-admitted EoD lurking doesn't make me feel comfortable either, because of the potential "Elim froze at chaotic EoD" energy. (I guess you could say E!Dingo doesn't admit this, I'm not sure.) Weak sus on Albatross. I wish I had a reason for this but I don't, which is ironic given we somewhat agree on Flamingo. I'll try to figure out why, I just don't...feel great about Alb for whatever reason. [Later Heron: I think it might be that I feel Alb is V!reading me a bit too easily/quickly off what was more or less moving thread engagement. I'm not sure.] Weak sus on Iguana. I agree with DF on Iguana - in short, Iguana logs off for the night and moves vote off Kanga and onto a convenient sidetrain, and lampshades they're sussing Octo for the same thing as they're doing. There's a kind of self-consciousness there I'm not sure I like the more I think about it and this fundamentally ends up protecting Kanga. Weak sus on Toucan. I feel this vote from Toucan doesn't make sense. A player who has vanished from the game with only two very early D1 posts should not be updated enough on the game to have an opinion on an EoD train, much less to feel comfortable about voting on one of the largest EoD trains. This to me suggests that Toucan is either following the game more than they're letting on (i.e. lurking) or that Toucan was prompted to by panicking teammates and was out of touch enough not to realise it. (Though tbh given the vote is 4.5 hours after EoD, it just feels performative or Village cred fishing to me too.) Neutral to slight sus on Ele. Ele hedging on DF [1][2] but ultimately pushing Meerkat isn't something I feel comfortable with - there's slight "Elim not wanting to incriminate self by committing to position on lead train about to flip Village" energy to it given the time Ele gave views on DF. Ele's argument that an Elim doesn't like to attract attention is...correct for certain Elims, and I give Ele some V!credit for it, but Ele also voted Meerkat for being too willing to change votes, just in a way that didn't grab attention. Null on Opal Lion. Don't think they've shown up. Null to slight sus on Plum Rhino. I take DF's point wrt potential Elim freeze response in Rhino; however, I am not sure E!Rhino has the capacity to case Octo at EoD. Might very well be true but I'm /shrug on this for now. Rhino mentioned being busy on D1 so what I want to see is more alignment-indicative content from Rhino going into D2. I will say that I agree with Rhino's thought process in their second post - I don't like the solid evidence phrasing either as I indicated earlier, and I feel like Octo thinking that DF is making a defensive vote switch at SoD - this is a p1 post - is minimally uncharitable and reads a bit "you treat me badly I treat you badly." Weak sus on Octo. I agree with DF - Octo's statement on solid evidence and just guessing at SoD reads Elim-coded to me, because it comes from a very defensive mindset from the get-go. I had wondered if I was being too uncharitable to Octo given that Octo's sus on DF for changing their vote for what was clearly a response to Octo rather than a naked vote, but Kanga also making the same assertion made me more neutral about it. In light of Kanga flipping E, I cannot give that benefit of the doubt anymore. As a side-note, Kanga does state trust of Octo. Given Kanga's thread confidence, I can see this being E/E. Octo being confident enough to say EoD "clears Dragonfly" (which Gecko picks up on) is making me wonder if that's an E!slip btw. I have difficulty seeing this confidence level coming from a player who starts the game being worried about solid evidence. Octo then repeatedly asking for "our top suspects" is odd to me - why the urgency? Why do you "need to know" who the top suspects are and "who we think the saboteurs are most likely to kill"? Shouldn't you be doing your own reads, given you also had a view on DF anyway, indicating you're at least partly caught up on the thread? In summation: Beagle / DF Gecko / Weasel Zebra Dingo Lion Rhino / Alb / Ele Iguana / Octo / Toucan / Croc / Flamingo I have a lot more suspicions than is normal for me but I guess sometimes life's just like that. Not ordered within tiers, this is just my way of talking about who I'd pressure first tomorrow, and who I think should be only gotten to in later revisions, e.g. don't revise Beagle until late-game, Beagle should probably be dead before that regardless. Anyway goodnight all, I think I don't have time for RP after all, sorry about that but I gotta do stuff. Heron logging off. EDITED TO ADD: FML forgot Axl. Current Axl view is: null, maybe a tiny bit of sus. I think pretty much any E!Gecko world requires E!Axl btw. I'd like an answer ( @Violet Axolotl ) on whether Axl knew that DF had claimed Lurcher and just Axl's whole mindset about that self-pres vote. There's a lot of attention in their posts to how they are being perceived. I just think that the train size on Axl before the switch also indicates the Elims were comfortable with this which should point to V!Axl...unless Gecko is E. Anyway I was struggling back and forth with whether Axl's response to DF is V or E, I might lean V after all in terms of Axl still being willing to self-pres onto DF but that depends on whether Axl saw the claim so /shrug. I don't like this. It feels very performative and reminiscent of Kanga's EoD - you would've been told by the GMs if you were dead so why would you be scared of EoD and why are you so invested in staying alive? Beagle / DF Gecko / Weasel Zebra Dingo Lion / Axl Rhino / Alb / Ele Iguana / Octo / Toucan / Croc / Flamingo Wait so sorry you have sus on me for defending myself??? I understand, but else was I supposed to do in that situation, 'no yeah i have no defense so just vote me out i want to die'????????? What did you want me to do??? 11 minutes to EoD my computer was in my backpack and I was on my way to school, with no ability to check my anon account on my phone. Last time I had checked, Violet Axl was the only counter train to kangaroo. Sorry if this is defensive, but I just... i mean i guess the point of this post is too be defensive?
Saffron Iguana Posted January 7 Posted January 7 1 hour ago, Mint Heron said: Which numerically is a very safe sidetrain to park on for the rest of the day, and as Dragonfly points out, Ig does acknowledge this since that's what they sus Octo for but also wind up doing: So my vote went on Octo rather than someone else specifically because of the Octo-DF interactions. I was thinking that DF might consider switching onto Octo if Octo became a valid train. Not sure in retrospect if that makes any sense, but that was my thought process in the moment.Â
Sunburst Toucan Posted January 7 Posted January 7 13 hours ago, Sunburst Toucan said: Sapphire Elephant Violet Axolotl My post was more a change in suspicion than a vote, but I formatted that terribly. Sapphire Elephant was a poke vote on my behalf earlier and I wanted to withdraw that. I'll admit it wasn't the smartest idea. Other than that, I may just be very confused.Â
Violet Axolotl Posted January 7 Posted January 7 3 hours ago, Mint Heron said: This entire thread continues to be allergic to reading I see  I distinctly recall being told I voted without reason yesterday as well, even after I already stated my thought processes. Yesterday it was me pointing repeatedly to Dragonfly having Lurcher claimed, today it is me pointing out I gave no reasoning at the point of vote but explained my vote subsequently because someone asked me: tldr; wanted to create a tie early (...earlier) in the cycle to see where people were going, and between axl and croc, i sussed axl more off voting patterns I didn't move subsequently because, as I was saying in 90% of EoD, I didn't want DF to die, and didn't want to leave enough room for vote manip to kill DF. (I also had some low-key paranoia that Gecko was trying to engineer a CW to save Axl/kill DF which is why I kept asking about the train sizes at EoD so I could cross-check what Gecko had in mind.) I will say I have a weak V lean on Dingo for this read given I'm probably responsible for getting the train off DF, which maybe helps me a little as Dingo's "I was actually there all along" got me to theorise a world in which E!Dingo lurked to see if Kanga could be saved but then demurred given Gecko and I were lurking and mentioning a potential counter-hammer into Kanga. (Weak because I don't feel confident ruling this world out just yet.) Icl this makes me wary of Flamingo tonally. It's giving "this isn't the correct way to find me" response which normally skews E. This was maybe half an hour shy of the 36-hour mark. Kanga had at least 1-3 votes on prior btw, and Ig and Meerkat dipped after voting. It is entirely possible one of them voted to distance and simply never returned. What is definitely the case is at most 2 in <Saffron Ig, Meerkat, Weasel> are Elim, and in that world it is more likely to be Ig and Meerkat than it is to be Weasel and one of the two. (There's actually something interesting there I suppose since Ig calls out Meerkat's reasoning but votes alongside Meerkat - I think Weasel pointed this out as well. Anyway Ig's last post for the cycle has them shifting their vote after this vc: By this point, DF has shifted 36 minutes ago to Axl so Ig is actually seeing a 5/4 train landscape on Axl. Ig's response is to move their vote off Kanga and to park on Octo, which has the effect of decreasing the relative CW sizes. We go from: to: Which numerically is a very safe sidetrain to park on for the rest of the day, and as Dragonfly points out, Ig does acknowledge this since that's what they sus Octo for but also wind up doing: And yeah I se DF clarifies this is what they had in mind, ty DF. I think this is a fair observation btw. Rhino did in fact post thoughts. IDK if E!Rhino has the capacity to case someone else at EoD but Elim freezing at chaotic EoDs is definitely a thing too. I'd like some pressure on Toucan tomorrow btw. Toucan showing up to do just this is weird to me - I'm not fully convinced that Alb night voting here isn't performative (sorry Alb) but this is doubly so for Toucan. I get the sense I'm meant to think Toucan is this disconnected from the thread rather than Toucan actually being this disconnected. Given the OG votestate everyone was working off (depends on whether the Elims realised there were six on Kanga at EoD I guess), I'm crack theorising a world where one of the Elims ran off Gecko's votestate count and said "Hey guys we need a CW" and Toucan sees it in the doc and just votes without catching up. (The weirdness to me is - how does a player who dropped a vote and vanished also suddenly return having formed a strong opinion to vote on one of the largest EoD trains? Why does Axl look suspicious here? This reads to me like Toucan is actually following the thread or following instructions from someone. This can be explained by a doc going kayana about Kanga suddenly being endangered and considering Axl as a CW.) As an aside, I find Kanga's EoD vote odd - Kanga doesn't self-pres onto Axl which you think would be the logical CW here. Kanga votes on Weasel. I guess it's entirely possible Kanga was intending to hammer and got scared off by Gecko mentioning a counter-hammer. But I can see a world E!Kanga accepts going over and votes on Weasel to try to implicate V!Axl (I feel that unless Axl is an E!PR that is better than Kanga's, Kanga probably just CWs onto Axl here reasoning that whichever of them dies, the other one gets sweet distancing points.) Though I guess it's also possible Kanga is just very behind on the votestate since Kanga here seems to be responding to Gecko's ping. Side-note: To me, this indicates Gecko and Kanga are unlikely E/E. In an E!Kanga world, the Elim team is most likely acutely aware of votes on their teammates, and Gecko agreeing to actually bus Kanga here instead of just actually engineering the tie is less likely. ( @Ivory Dragonfly - I don't fully agree with the Gecko sus you mentioned so I'm trying to lay out my reasoning here. Not saying Gecko can't be Evil but not near my top suspect.)' Less likely because the main E!Gecko worlds here require Gecko to have just been mistaken about one of the late vote switches (still possible), or for Axl to be a more valuable Elim PR (Coinshot? Mistborn? Ig? IDK. Them being willing to yield a Seeker to potentially any Village Kandra lurking out there is strange to me regardless but this could be a best of a bad lot world.) I just think that given Gecko was willing to instigate a CW that got an Elim dead (via Beagle), unless Axl is some major E!PR, I think that should give Gecko some Village credit. It's true that Gecko wanted a Weasel vote, but Gecko was still willing to do the Kanga CW instead. @A Jo in the Bush / @The Unknown Medallion - Btw, could you put some version of the amended votes into the OP? I'm concerned people might use the wrong EoD votes when doing analysis after I'm too dead to yell at them for doing it; I just think we also need to keep the OG error version somewhere because that's what people might be working with. For similar reasons, I feel like Kanga's willingness to vote on Weasel might be indicative they're not paired (though I independently am weak V!reading Weasel for that Kanga vote at nearly 12 hours left in the cycle regardless.)  TLDR; FOR PEOPLE ALLERGIC TO READING: This is a 'if I die tonight' kind of wishlist / semi-readslist because I have things to do and might not be able to finish it: Lean weak V on Weasel for hard Kanga statement and vote on D1. Less likely for Weasel to be distancing given the train sizes at the point they signed off for the night and added an unnecessary third vote to Kanga, also given the hardness of Kanga sus statement. (Note: Weasel isn't really a Village whip by nature so I'm also not holding it against them that they didn't whip votes to Kanga.) Do not hardclear Weasel, but don't para(noia) exe Weasel this fast. Weasel is a helpful player. DF is probably V. I really liked DF's second post. For people who still aren't catching up with what DF said, DF actually stated outright in their second post that they sussed Octo for saying they'd have to guess until they found solid evidence. I immediately sympathised with/had a mindmeld with that position because requiring solid evidence to back a vote is a phrase that tends to come more from an Elim (see also my concerns with Flamingo earlier.) This is part of the reason I was not down with DF sus yesterday and stated as much. DON'T SLEEPWALK INTO A DF PARANOIA EXE, TYRIAN LURCHERS IN THIS GAME ARE NOT IMMORTAL, YES I KNOW ABOUT THE TARGETING RULE. IYKYK. Weak sus on Flamingo. I don't really like this response from Flamingo in terms of PoE not being sufficient evidence - as I said, it's giving very Elim "this isn't the right way to find me." At the same time, I concede Flamingo is correct that they voted on a CW to DF; however, we also don't know if that CW is Village (there are some E!Axl worlds) so Flamingo suggesting this gives them V!credit is weird to me because Flamingo stayed put on the Axl train at 11 minutes to EoD which indicates Flamingo made a conscious decision to remain on a train that also ended up being a CW to Kanga. (I would in fact argue that even in V!Axl worlds, Flamingo's vote would remain fixed: it's more important to Flamingo at that time of EoD that a Villager dies, and Flamingo might be concerned that shifting votes to endanger the v!Lurcher looks worse.) Lean weak V on Zebra. I acknowledge it's a perverse argument, but functionally Zebra had an early pressure test post I liked, and while I don't agree with Zebra's reasoning, I slightly am inclined to believe it emerges from a Villager headspace. Weak sus on Croc. Croc had a positive read/weak defence on Kanga, which I felt probably the polar opposite about. The vc at the time Croc swapped (you can reference this off the Croc post I linked) was 4/3 on DF to Kanga, and Croc voted on Axl, making the trains 4/3/3. I can see a world this is meant to protect Kanga, whom Croc self-admittedly V!reads. Kanga does in fact take a bone that Croc throws to them, which makes me wonder if this is a teammate interaction. Moderate V on Beagle. Think Beagle has been sensible in general and suggesting and being down with introducing Kanga as a CW does a lot for them in my eyes. Mild to moderate V on Gecko. I think there's a world E!Gecko suggested a CW to try to get votes off Axl and it's true Gecko called for a Weasel tie instead. In that world, Gecko is fine rolling the dice. However, Gecko was unaware of the actual Kanga votes, and was willing to vote on the Kanga CW. We can debate how much that's an Elim feeling forced by the Village, but given that Gecko fundamentally did something that led to a pro-Village outcome, and I think an E!Gecko/E!Kanga world is one where Kanga doesn't die (Gecko doesn't tell me to be aware of a hammer and just asks Kanga to belatedly hammer Axl, or just gives me the wrong train sizes), I would say "don't hardclear" (generally a very good principle in a Tyrian game regardless, particularly an AG  ) but that it's perverse not to give Village credit for doing Villagery things. This can be a 'revise later if necessary' type of read and anyway that's how tiered PoE works regardless. Lean v. weak V on Dingo, maybe null. I think that pushing me here feels more Villagery in that IDK if an Elim decides to do this after EoD yesterday (some would, tbf.) At the same time, Dingo's self-admitted EoD lurking doesn't make me feel comfortable either, because of the potential "Elim froze at chaotic EoD" energy. (I guess you could say E!Dingo doesn't admit this, I'm not sure.) Weak sus on Albatross. I wish I had a reason for this but I don't, which is ironic given we somewhat agree on Flamingo. I'll try to figure out why, I just don't...feel great about Alb for whatever reason. [Later Heron: I think it might be that I feel Alb is V!reading me a bit too easily/quickly off what was more or less moving thread engagement. I'm not sure.] Weak sus on Iguana. I agree with DF on Iguana - in short, Iguana logs off for the night and moves vote off Kanga and onto a convenient sidetrain, and lampshades they're sussing Octo for the same thing as they're doing. There's a kind of self-consciousness there I'm not sure I like the more I think about it and this fundamentally ends up protecting Kanga. Weak sus on Toucan. I feel this vote from Toucan doesn't make sense. A player who has vanished from the game with only two very early D1 posts should not be updated enough on the game to have an opinion on an EoD train, much less to feel comfortable about voting on one of the largest EoD trains. This to me suggests that Toucan is either following the game more than they're letting on (i.e. lurking) or that Toucan was prompted to by panicking teammates and was out of touch enough not to realise it. (Though tbh given the vote is 4.5 hours after EoD, it just feels performative or Village cred fishing to me too.) Neutral to slight sus on Ele. Ele hedging on DF [1][2] but ultimately pushing Meerkat isn't something I feel comfortable with - there's slight "Elim not wanting to incriminate self by committing to position on lead train about to flip Village" energy to it given the time Ele gave views on DF. Ele's argument that an Elim doesn't like to attract attention is...correct for certain Elims, and I give Ele some V!credit for it, but Ele also voted Meerkat for being too willing to change votes, just in a way that didn't grab attention. Null on Opal Lion. Don't think they've shown up. Null to slight sus on Plum Rhino. I take DF's point wrt potential Elim freeze response in Rhino; however, I am not sure E!Rhino has the capacity to case Octo at EoD. Might very well be true but I'm /shrug on this for now. Rhino mentioned being busy on D1 so what I want to see is more alignment-indicative content from Rhino going into D2. I will say that I agree with Rhino's thought process in their second post - I don't like the solid evidence phrasing either as I indicated earlier, and I feel like Octo thinking that DF is making a defensive vote switch at SoD - this is a p1 post - is minimally uncharitable and reads a bit "you treat me badly I treat you badly." Weak sus on Octo. I agree with DF - Octo's statement on solid evidence and just guessing at SoD reads Elim-coded to me, because it comes from a very defensive mindset from the get-go. I had wondered if I was being too uncharitable to Octo given that Octo's sus on DF for changing their vote for what was clearly a response to Octo rather than a naked vote, but Kanga also making the same assertion made me more neutral about it. In light of Kanga flipping E, I cannot give that benefit of the doubt anymore. As a side-note, Kanga does state trust of Octo. Given Kanga's thread confidence, I can see this being E/E. Octo being confident enough to say EoD "clears Dragonfly" (which Gecko picks up on) is making me wonder if that's an E!slip btw. I have difficulty seeing this confidence level coming from a player who starts the game being worried about solid evidence. Octo then repeatedly asking for "our top suspects" is odd to me - why the urgency? Why do you "need to know" who the top suspects are and "who we think the saboteurs are most likely to kill"? Shouldn't you be doing your own reads, given you also had a view on DF anyway, indicating you're at least partly caught up on the thread? In summation: Beagle / DF Gecko / Weasel Zebra Dingo Lion Rhino / Alb / Ele Iguana / Octo / Toucan / Croc / Flamingo I have a lot more suspicions than is normal for me but I guess sometimes life's just like that. Not ordered within tiers, this is just my way of talking about who I'd pressure first tomorrow, and who I think should be only gotten to in later revisions, e.g. don't revise Beagle until late-game, Beagle should probably be dead before that regardless. Anyway goodnight all, I think I don't have time for RP after all, sorry about that but I gotta do stuff. Heron logging off. EDITED TO ADD: FML forgot Axl. Current Axl view is: null, maybe a tiny bit of sus. I think pretty much any E!Gecko world requires E!Axl btw. I'd like an answer ( @Violet Axolotl ) on whether Axl knew that DF had claimed Lurcher and just Axl's whole mindset about that self-pres vote. There's a lot of attention in their posts to how they are being perceived. I just think that the train size on Axl before the switch also indicates the Elims were comfortable with this which should point to V!Axl...unless Gecko is E. Anyway I was struggling back and forth with whether Axl's response to DF is V or E, I might lean V after all in terms of Axl still being willing to self-pres onto DF but that depends on whether Axl saw the claim so /shrug. I don't like this. It feels very performative and reminiscent of Kanga's EoD - you would've been told by the GMs if you were dead so why would you be scared of EoD and why are you so invested in staying alive? Beagle / DF Gecko / Weasel Zebra Dingo Lion / Axl Rhino / Alb / Ele Iguana / Octo / Toucan / Croc / Flamingo I had read some on the lurcher claim, didn't think much of it and didn't see where it came from. For the self-pres thing, DF has the most votes other than me, and I already was slightly sus of them from vibes, so I decided to switch to them to increase my changes of not being voted out. I checked the thread as soon as I woke up, so I didn't even look to see if I had any PMs. Plus, I didn't know how it would work if I got bored out, wasn't sure if I'd be PMed. I want to stay alive because duh this game is fun and I don't want to die. I'm gonna do something that may be a bad idea buttt I'm claiming lurcher Gtg to bed now See y'all tomorrowÂ
Indigo Weasel Posted January 7 Posted January 7 4 minutes ago, Violet Axolotl said: I had read some on the lurcher claim, didn't think much of it and didn't see where it came from. For the self-pres thing, DF has the most votes other than me, and I already was slightly sus of them from vibes, so I decided to switch to them to increase my changes of not being voted out. I checked the thread as soon as I woke up, so I didn't even look to see if I had any PMs. Plus, I didn't know how it would work if I got bored out, wasn't sure if I'd be PMed. I want to stay alive because duh this game is fun and I don't want to die. I'm gonna do something that may be a bad idea buttt I'm claiming lurcher Gtg to bed now See y'all tomorrow So we have a DragonFly Lurcher claim and Axolotl Lurcher claim. Unless the Distro is completely crazy, at least one of them is lying
Melon Dingo Posted January 7 Posted January 7 52 minutes ago, Mint Heron said: This entire thread continues to be allergic to reading I see  I distinctly recall being told I voted without reason yesterday as well, even after I already stated my thought processes. Yesterday it was me pointing repeatedly to Dragonfly having Lurcher claimed, today it is me pointing out I gave no reasoning at the point of vote but explained my vote subsequently because someone asked me: I feel disproportionately called out here  I will say, I basically only looked for vote posts and then looked for reasoning in the post. Sadly, this thread seems allergic to organizing their thoughts in ways easy to analyze 58 minutes ago, Mint Heron said: TLDR; FOR PEOPLE ALLERGIC TO READING: Gotta say, your TLDR needs a TLDR i cant make it through ok i did make it through im just playing into your cant read acusations. (Wait, I just realized theres a bunch of posts above Heron's I didnt realize existed... really not beating the cant read accusation xD) 2 hours ago, Mint Heron said: Dingo's self-admitted EoD lurking doesn't make me feel comfortable either, because of the potential "Elim froze at chaotic EoD" energy. (I guess you could say E!Dingo doesn't admit this, I'm not sure.) I mean, my last post was right before the 11 minute warning so I wouldnt really consider it lurking but dont worry elim!me would probably say it too 6 minutes ago, Onyx Flamingo said: Wait so sorry you have sus on me for defending myself??? I understand, but else was I supposed to do in that situation, 'no yeah i have no defense so just vote me out i want to die'????????? What did you want me to do??? 11 minutes to EoD my computer was in my backpack and I was on my way to school, with no ability to check my anon account on my phone. Last time I had checked, Violet Axl was the only counter train to kangaroo. Sorry if this is defensive, but I just... i mean i guess the point of this post is too be defensive? The point is to be *too defensive*? -------- again just for a little RP. Stormseeker, this time with no scarf, went down to the engine room. There was usually a store of investiture there he could use. So far, no one had caught him or reported it missing. He went down there and found the usual stash and grabbed another 50 BEU. Immediately an alarm went off. Someone this time had clearly noticed someone was doing this. He fled back towards the bridge, not looking back.
Sapphire Elephant Posted January 7 Posted January 7 4 hours ago, Oxblood Beagle said: Levin had thoughts to process in his head as he tried to evaluate the events that led up to the charlatan, Kangaroo, being exposed. But there were certainly a lot that was said and accusations thrown around, so he needed a little respite from the brainstorming. So, he exited his quarters and saw the merchant, who was still selling Honorblades eagerly day and night. "Do you offer a discount or a special offer? Like a buy one-take one sort of deal," he asked. 400 boxings was not really out of his budget, but he remembered a memory in a past homeworld. There were merchants who sold wares at an exorbitant price and tried to fool unwary customers that the expense was worth every single boxing. His father had been one such unfortunate victim, who kept spending money on shoddy items. While his father had a job that earned a fair wage, they could hardly save anything and it had the consequence of leading Levin and his siblings to work at a young age, instead of being educated. And so, he was wary of merchants even in this new lease of life, but he couldn't deny that they had their place in society. Not all of them were malicious. "This is already underpriced," Klin said, shaking his head. "This is the only Honorblade in the Cosmere that's for sale." 4 hours ago, Taupe Gecko said: … did you read End of Day? Me and Dragonfly were two of the main campaigners for Kangaroo’s death … did you read the writeup? Guys for anyone who didn’t know when a character dies, their fate, alignment (good or evil) and role are all revealed in the writeup In this case: Right there If you don’t wanna get bogged down by the flavor just make sure to read what’s after the … @Melon Dingo I’ll read through your vote analysis when I have time and I’m not sleepy, hopefully tomorrow morning before rollover … There were only a few hours left in the night as H.E.A.R.T.H wheeled back into its charging port. It was a small chamber, hardly the soft beds the rest of the crew got. Funny. It had never thought about that before. As the ship’s only automaton, H.E.A.R.T.H had to charge three times in a cycle - two at day, one at night. Of course, night and day were only constructs in the void of space. As it made its way, it heard a debate down a side passage about the selling of some sort of blade, and ignored it. At last, it reached its destination. The boy had slept in a tent. No, He had slept in a tent. The One Who Was Now H.E.A.R.T.H. He had slept in many tents in his life, but one stood out. One he had shared. The mountain chill tried to break in from outside, but inside it was warm. It felt like home. H.E.A.R.T.H had never known home, it thought, as its code faded and gave way to memories once more.  "No, no, I meant before she died. How did you figure it out in the Day?" 3 hours ago, Mint Heron said: This entire thread continues to be allergic to reading I see  I distinctly recall being told I voted without reason yesterday as well, even after I already stated my thought processes. Yesterday it was me pointing repeatedly to Dragonfly having Lurcher claimed, today it is me pointing out I gave no reasoning at the point of vote but explained my vote subsequently because someone asked me: tldr; wanted to create a tie early (...earlier) in the cycle to see where people were going, and between axl and croc, i sussed axl more off voting patterns I didn't move subsequently because, as I was saying in 90% of EoD, I didn't want DF to die, and didn't want to leave enough room for vote manip to kill DF. (I also had some low-key paranoia that Gecko was trying to engineer a CW to save Axl/kill DF which is why I kept asking about the train sizes at EoD so I could cross-check what Gecko had in mind.) I will say I have a weak V lean on Dingo for this read given I'm probably responsible for getting the train off DF, which maybe helps me a little as Dingo's "I was actually there all along" got me to theorise a world in which E!Dingo lurked to see if Kanga could be saved but then demurred given Gecko and I were lurking and mentioning a potential counter-hammer into Kanga. (Weak because I don't feel confident ruling this world out just yet.) Icl this makes me wary of Flamingo tonally. It's giving "this isn't the correct way to find me" response which normally skews E. This was maybe half an hour shy of the 36-hour mark. Kanga had at least 1-3 votes on prior btw, and Ig and Meerkat dipped after voting. It is entirely possible one of them voted to distance and simply never returned. What is definitely the case is at most 2 in <Saffron Ig, Meerkat, Weasel> are Elim, and in that world it is more likely to be Ig and Meerkat than it is to be Weasel and one of the two. (There's actually something interesting there I suppose since Ig calls out Meerkat's reasoning but votes alongside Meerkat - I think Weasel pointed this out as well. Anyway Ig's last post for the cycle has them shifting their vote after this vc: By this point, DF has shifted 36 minutes ago to Axl so Ig is actually seeing a 5/4 train landscape on Axl. Ig's response is to move their vote off Kanga and to park on Octo, which has the effect of decreasing the relative CW sizes. We go from: to: Which numerically is a very safe sidetrain to park on for the rest of the day, and as Dragonfly points out, Ig does acknowledge this since that's what they sus Octo for but also wind up doing: And yeah I se DF clarifies this is what they had in mind, ty DF. I think this is a fair observation btw. Rhino did in fact post thoughts. IDK if E!Rhino has the capacity to case someone else at EoD but Elim freezing at chaotic EoDs is definitely a thing too. I'd like some pressure on Toucan tomorrow btw. Toucan showing up to do just this is weird to me - I'm not fully convinced that Alb night voting here isn't performative (sorry Alb) but this is doubly so for Toucan. I get the sense I'm meant to think Toucan is this disconnected from the thread rather than Toucan actually being this disconnected. Given the OG votestate everyone was working off (depends on whether the Elims realised there were six on Kanga at EoD I guess), I'm crack theorising a world where one of the Elims ran off Gecko's votestate count and said "Hey guys we need a CW" and Toucan sees it in the doc and just votes without catching up. (The weirdness to me is - how does a player who dropped a vote and vanished also suddenly return having formed a strong opinion to vote on one of the largest EoD trains? Why does Axl look suspicious here? This reads to me like Toucan is actually following the thread or following instructions from someone. This can be explained by a doc going kayana about Kanga suddenly being endangered and considering Axl as a CW.) As an aside, I find Kanga's EoD vote odd - Kanga doesn't self-pres onto Axl which you think would be the logical CW here. Kanga votes on Weasel. I guess it's entirely possible Kanga was intending to hammer and got scared off by Gecko mentioning a counter-hammer. But I can see a world E!Kanga accepts going over and votes on Weasel to try to implicate V!Axl (I feel that unless Axl is an E!PR that is better than Kanga's, Kanga probably just CWs onto Axl here reasoning that whichever of them dies, the other one gets sweet distancing points.) Though I guess it's also possible Kanga is just very behind on the votestate since Kanga here seems to be responding to Gecko's ping. Side-note: To me, this indicates Gecko and Kanga are unlikely E/E. In an E!Kanga world, the Elim team is most likely acutely aware of votes on their teammates, and Gecko agreeing to actually bus Kanga here instead of just actually engineering the tie is less likely. ( @Ivory Dragonfly - I don't fully agree with the Gecko sus you mentioned so I'm trying to lay out my reasoning here. Not saying Gecko can't be Evil but not near my top suspect.)' Less likely because the main E!Gecko worlds here require Gecko to have just been mistaken about one of the late vote switches (still possible), or for Axl to be a more valuable Elim PR (Coinshot? Mistborn? Ig? IDK. Them being willing to yield a Seeker to potentially any Village Kandra lurking out there is strange to me regardless but this could be a best of a bad lot world.) I just think that given Gecko was willing to instigate a CW that got an Elim dead (via Beagle), unless Axl is some major E!PR, I think that should give Gecko some Village credit. It's true that Gecko wanted a Weasel vote, but Gecko was still willing to do the Kanga CW instead. @A Jo in the Bush / @The Unknown Medallion - Btw, could you put some version of the amended votes into the OP? I'm concerned people might use the wrong EoD votes when doing analysis after I'm too dead to yell at them for doing it; I just think we also need to keep the OG error version somewhere because that's what people might be working with. For similar reasons, I feel like Kanga's willingness to vote on Weasel might be indicative they're not paired (though I independently am weak V!reading Weasel for that Kanga vote at nearly 12 hours left in the cycle regardless.)  TLDR; FOR PEOPLE ALLERGIC TO READING: This is a 'if I die tonight' kind of wishlist / semi-readslist because I have things to do and might not be able to finish it: Lean weak V on Weasel for hard Kanga statement and vote on D1. Less likely for Weasel to be distancing given the train sizes at the point they signed off for the night and added an unnecessary third vote to Kanga, also given the hardness of Kanga sus statement. (Note: Weasel isn't really a Village whip by nature so I'm also not holding it against them that they didn't whip votes to Kanga.) Do not hardclear Weasel, but don't para(noia) exe Weasel this fast. Weasel is a helpful player. DF is probably V. I really liked DF's second post. For people who still aren't catching up with what DF said, DF actually stated outright in their second post that they sussed Octo for saying they'd have to guess until they found solid evidence. I immediately sympathised with/had a mindmeld with that position because requiring solid evidence to back a vote is a phrase that tends to come more from an Elim (see also my concerns with Flamingo earlier.) This is part of the reason I was not down with DF sus yesterday and stated as much. DON'T SLEEPWALK INTO A DF PARANOIA EXE, TYRIAN LURCHERS IN THIS GAME ARE NOT IMMORTAL, YES I KNOW ABOUT THE TARGETING RULE. IYKYK. Weak sus on Flamingo. I don't really like this response from Flamingo in terms of PoE not being sufficient evidence - as I said, it's giving very Elim "this isn't the right way to find me." At the same time, I concede Flamingo is correct that they voted on a CW to DF; however, we also don't know if that CW is Village (there are some E!Axl worlds) so Flamingo suggesting this gives them V!credit is weird to me because Flamingo stayed put on the Axl train at 11 minutes to EoD which indicates Flamingo made a conscious decision to remain on a train that also ended up being a CW to Kanga. (I would in fact argue that even in V!Axl worlds, Flamingo's vote would remain fixed: it's more important to Flamingo at that time of EoD that a Villager dies, and Flamingo might be concerned that shifting votes to endanger the v!Lurcher looks worse.) Lean weak V on Zebra. I acknowledge it's a perverse argument, but functionally Zebra had an early pressure test post I liked, and while I don't agree with Zebra's reasoning, I slightly am inclined to believe it emerges from a Villager headspace. Weak sus on Croc. Croc had a positive read/weak defence on Kanga, which I felt probably the polar opposite about. The vc at the time Croc swapped (you can reference this off the Croc post I linked) was 4/3 on DF to Kanga, and Croc voted on Axl, making the trains 4/3/3. I can see a world this is meant to protect Kanga, whom Croc self-admittedly V!reads. Kanga does in fact take a bone that Croc throws to them, which makes me wonder if this is a teammate interaction. Moderate V on Beagle. Think Beagle has been sensible in general and suggesting and being down with introducing Kanga as a CW does a lot for them in my eyes. Mild to moderate V on Gecko. I think there's a world E!Gecko suggested a CW to try to get votes off Axl and it's true Gecko called for a Weasel tie instead. In that world, Gecko is fine rolling the dice. However, Gecko was unaware of the actual Kanga votes, and was willing to vote on the Kanga CW. We can debate how much that's an Elim feeling forced by the Village, but given that Gecko fundamentally did something that led to a pro-Village outcome, and I think an E!Gecko/E!Kanga world is one where Kanga doesn't die (Gecko doesn't tell me to be aware of a hammer and just asks Kanga to belatedly hammer Axl, or just gives me the wrong train sizes), I would say "don't hardclear" (generally a very good principle in a Tyrian game regardless, particularly an AG  ) but that it's perverse not to give Village credit for doing Villagery things. This can be a 'revise later if necessary' type of read and anyway that's how tiered PoE works regardless. Lean v. weak V on Dingo, maybe null. I think that pushing me here feels more Villagery in that IDK if an Elim decides to do this after EoD yesterday (some would, tbf.) At the same time, Dingo's self-admitted EoD lurking doesn't make me feel comfortable either, because of the potential "Elim froze at chaotic EoD" energy. (I guess you could say E!Dingo doesn't admit this, I'm not sure.) Weak sus on Albatross. I wish I had a reason for this but I don't, which is ironic given we somewhat agree on Flamingo. I'll try to figure out why, I just don't...feel great about Alb for whatever reason. [Later Heron: I think it might be that I feel Alb is V!reading me a bit too easily/quickly off what was more or less moving thread engagement. I'm not sure.] Weak sus on Iguana. I agree with DF on Iguana - in short, Iguana logs off for the night and moves vote off Kanga and onto a convenient sidetrain, and lampshades they're sussing Octo for the same thing as they're doing. There's a kind of self-consciousness there I'm not sure I like the more I think about it and this fundamentally ends up protecting Kanga. Weak sus on Toucan. I feel this vote from Toucan doesn't make sense. A player who has vanished from the game with only two very early D1 posts should not be updated enough on the game to have an opinion on an EoD train, much less to feel comfortable about voting on one of the largest EoD trains. This to me suggests that Toucan is either following the game more than they're letting on (i.e. lurking) or that Toucan was prompted to by panicking teammates and was out of touch enough not to realise it. (Though tbh given the vote is 4.5 hours after EoD, it just feels performative or Village cred fishing to me too.) Neutral to slight sus on Ele. Ele hedging on DF [1][2] but ultimately pushing Meerkat isn't something I feel comfortable with - there's slight "Elim not wanting to incriminate self by committing to position on lead train about to flip Village" energy to it given the time Ele gave views on DF. Ele's argument that an Elim doesn't like to attract attention is...correct for certain Elims, and I give Ele some V!credit for it, but Ele also voted Meerkat for being too willing to change votes, just in a way that didn't grab attention. Null on Opal Lion. Don't think they've shown up. Null to slight sus on Plum Rhino. I take DF's point wrt potential Elim freeze response in Rhino; however, I am not sure E!Rhino has the capacity to case Octo at EoD. Might very well be true but I'm /shrug on this for now. Rhino mentioned being busy on D1 so what I want to see is more alignment-indicative content from Rhino going into D2. I will say that I agree with Rhino's thought process in their second post - I don't like the solid evidence phrasing either as I indicated earlier, and I feel like Octo thinking that DF is making a defensive vote switch at SoD - this is a p1 post - is minimally uncharitable and reads a bit "you treat me badly I treat you badly." Weak sus on Octo. I agree with DF - Octo's statement on solid evidence and just guessing at SoD reads Elim-coded to me, because it comes from a very defensive mindset from the get-go. I had wondered if I was being too uncharitable to Octo given that Octo's sus on DF for changing their vote for what was clearly a response to Octo rather than a naked vote, but Kanga also making the same assertion made me more neutral about it. In light of Kanga flipping E, I cannot give that benefit of the doubt anymore. As a side-note, Kanga does state trust of Octo. Given Kanga's thread confidence, I can see this being E/E. Octo being confident enough to say EoD "clears Dragonfly" (which Gecko picks up on) is making me wonder if that's an E!slip btw. I have difficulty seeing this confidence level coming from a player who starts the game being worried about solid evidence. Octo then repeatedly asking for "our top suspects" is odd to me - why the urgency? Why do you "need to know" who the top suspects are and "who we think the saboteurs are most likely to kill"? Shouldn't you be doing your own reads, given you also had a view on DF anyway, indicating you're at least partly caught up on the thread? In summation: Beagle / DF Gecko / Weasel Zebra Dingo Lion Rhino / Alb / Ele Iguana / Octo / Toucan / Croc / Flamingo I have a lot more suspicions than is normal for me but I guess sometimes life's just like that. Not ordered within tiers, this is just my way of talking about who I'd pressure first tomorrow, and who I think should be only gotten to in later revisions, e.g. don't revise Beagle until late-game, Beagle should probably be dead before that regardless. Anyway goodnight all, I think I don't have time for RP after all, sorry about that but I gotta do stuff. Heron logging off. EDITED TO ADD: FML forgot Axl. Current Axl view is: null, maybe a tiny bit of sus. I think pretty much any E!Gecko world requires E!Axl btw. I'd like an answer ( @Violet Axolotl ) on whether Axl knew that DF had claimed Lurcher and just Axl's whole mindset about that self-pres vote. There's a lot of attention in their posts to how they are being perceived. I just think that the train size on Axl before the switch also indicates the Elims were comfortable with this which should point to V!Axl...unless Gecko is E. Anyway I was struggling back and forth with whether Axl's response to DF is V or E, I might lean V after all in terms of Axl still being willing to self-pres onto DF but that depends on whether Axl saw the claim so /shrug. I don't like this. It feels very performative and reminiscent of Kanga's EoD - you would've been told by the GMs if you were dead so why would you be scared of EoD and why are you so invested in staying alive? Beagle / DF Gecko / Weasel Zebra Dingo Lion / Axl Rhino / Alb / Ele Iguana / Octo / Toucan / Croc / Flamingo I... do not have the time to read this now, I shall read it... eventually. Now, is this Hoid Slayer? The links are strange though...
Melon Dingo Posted January 7 Posted January 7 (edited) 58 minutes ago, Violet Axolotl said: I had read some on the lurcher claim, didn't think much of it and didn't see where it came from. For the self-pres thing, DF has the most votes other than me, and I already was slightly sus of them from vibes, so I decided to switch to them to increase my changes of not being voted out. I checked the thread as soon as I woke up, so I didn't even look to see if I had any PMs. Plus, I didn't know how it would work if I got bored out, wasn't sure if I'd be PMed. I want to stay alive because duh this game is fun and I don't want to die. I'm gonna do something that may be a bad idea buttt I'm claiming lurcher Gtg to bed now See y'all tomorrow  52 minutes ago, Indigo Weasel said: So we have a DragonFly Lurcher claim and Axolotl Lurcher claim. Unless the Distro is completely crazy, at least one of them is lying Hmm interesting. Sorry for double post on mobile (maybe itll auto merge like PMs?) i mean personally i dont dare to make predictions about AG distributions... or well, my prediction is each year its going to get more and more kayana until EITHER we have an all vanilla game or an all coinshot game and people will flip out xD Anyways, I definitely agree someone is probably lying especially with how powerful lurchers are this game... and i dont know if its smart to say this or not... but I definitely think its at least a good idea for Thugs to claim Lurcher, possibly some other roles as well. For thugs at least, when the attack doesnt go through elims almost certainly wont attack again if thats the claim. As they may assume the lurcher is just going to keep self protecting. Lastly I think we'll learn more about the distribution after tonight. We dont know if there are any coinshots yet and an elim coinshot raises the likelihood of lurchers/thugs imo as well. Edit: Elephant coming to the rescue! Thanks for stopping the double post! Lol Edit again: I forgot to add lurcher is also a very convenient lie to give to just get off the block. Im not sus atm of Dragonfly who this more applies to. But its worth mentioning as well Edited January 7 by Melon Dingo
Sapphire Elephant Posted January 7 Posted January 7 Well, this game is very active... I'm going to go do evening read now, see ya'll in the day. Hopefully I can catch up tomorrow. ~ Klin rummaged through his pack to see what else he could sell. He emerged with a book. "The Way of Kings by King Nohadon, selling for 50 boxings! I have copies in Vorin Women's Script, Nalthian and whatever the language in the Elendel Basin speaks!"
Ivory Dragonfly Posted January 7 Posted January 7 Lurcher is just going to keep self protecting. An elim coinshot Is at least a good idea. 6 hours ago, Saffron Iguana said:  I was thinking that DF might consider switching onto Octo Coming to the rescue? Quote Violet Axolotl (4): Onyx Flamingo, Mint Heron, Melon Dingo, Mauve Crocodile Sunburst Toucan (1): Ivory Dragonfly Sapphire Elephant (2): Sunburst Toucan, Oxblood Beagle Salmon Meerkat (2): Sapphire Elephant, Magenta Albatross Sage Kangaroo (3): Salmon Meerkat, Saffron Iguana, Indigo Weasel Mauve Crocodile (1): Quartz Zebra Ivory Dragonfly (4): Violet Axolotl, Taupe Gecko, Scarlet Octopus, Sage Kangaroo Quote My vote on Sage Kanga has outlived its pokiness. Coming to the rescue. Ivory Dragonfly self protecting = Sage Kangaroo. Violet Axolotl, Ivory Dragonfly, Sage Kangaroo Each.Â
Mint Heron Posted January 7 Posted January 7 Still busy so I skimmed and will just triage anything important: @Melon Dingo: So sorry, you stood out to me while the other three people who did it D1 blurred into a meaningless blob in my head or I @ them too RE Lurcher claim: yes but watch for the number of strikes/kills in say the next 3 cycles. A 2-3 Lurcher game is one with an E!CS, or possibly a lot of E!MB, and probably at least one E!Lurcher. I don't think it's run in a sub-20 game but will never recommend a role-exe this early. If by C3 or latest C5 (not sure about the numbers, just fudging) it's clearly the case that there's very little KP in this game, then we need to reconsider a fakeclaim world in one of them. @Indigo Weasel: I know you don't do distro meta so I'm just gonna tell you right now the last 3 Lurcher game we ran was AG8 with a lot of Thugs, and an E!CS. Do with this info as you wish. I would hesitate to form the PoE on a distro basis on the two of them on D2 especially in a game Jo is running due to the BS he pulled with a Lifeless Commander distro but you do you. @Onyx Flamingo: Ok but do you not see the problem with your new response? I pointed out that you had a fairly defensive tic in your response to Alb and your response is to say I want you to lie down and die. It's just... Two people expressing sus of you. I have a gigantic sus list myself and you're one point on it. Why has this translated to wanting you to accept death in your head? I think for instance you could have pointed to other villagery things you did, or just offered some reads/thoughts for the night. (Basically what I did anyway as Dingo also susses me.) Suspicions are not static and everyone is ok revising on you if you seem villagery. In general high defensiveness tends to skew Elim so that level of response cannot really make me improve my read. Axl claiming Lurcher really doesn't mesh with their behaviour btw. It's something I'd relook by say C3 or the C5 mark given more info.
Taupe Gecko Posted January 7 Posted January 7 (edited) Once again, H.E.A.R.T.H awoke with time to spare. This time, it left its chamber far heavier. This time, it had witnessed a death. The boy had been struck in battle, and the girl had carried him, she had smiled and joked and tried to laugh, but it was so far and so cold and he had died in her arms. H.E.A.R.T.H had died in her arms. He had to shake his head to free himself from the horror. But he couldn't. He couldn't escape the memories. So he would have to learn to live with them. For his own good. For the good of the TYRIAN. And it seemed there was much to distract him. 10 hours ago, Mint Heron said: This entire thread continues to be allergic to reading I see  I distinctly recall being told I voted without reason yesterday as well, even after I already stated my thought processes. Yesterday it was me pointing repeatedly to Dragonfly having Lurcher claimed, today it is me pointing out I gave no reasoning at the point of vote but explained my vote subsequently because someone asked me: tldr; wanted to create a tie early (...earlier) in the cycle to see where people were going, and between axl and croc, i sussed axl more off voting patterns I didn't move subsequently because, as I was saying in 90% of EoD, I didn't want DF to die, and didn't want to leave enough room for vote manip to kill DF. (I also had some low-key paranoia that Gecko was trying to engineer a CW to save Axl/kill DF which is why I kept asking about the train sizes at EoD so I could cross-check what Gecko had in mind.) I will say I have a weak V lean on Dingo for this read given I'm probably responsible for getting the train off DF, which maybe helps me a little as Dingo's "I was actually there all along" got me to theorise a world in which E!Dingo lurked to see if Kanga could be saved but then demurred given Gecko and I were lurking and mentioning a potential counter-hammer into Kanga. (Weak because I don't feel confident ruling this world out just yet.) Icl this makes me wary of Flamingo tonally. It's giving "this isn't the correct way to find me" response which normally skews E. This was maybe half an hour shy of the 36-hour mark. Kanga had at least 1-3 votes on prior btw, and Ig and Meerkat dipped after voting. It is entirely possible one of them voted to distance and simply never returned. What is definitely the case is at most 2 in <Saffron Ig, Meerkat, Weasel> are Elim, and in that world it is more likely to be Ig and Meerkat than it is to be Weasel and one of the two. (There's actually something interesting there I suppose since Ig calls out Meerkat's reasoning but votes alongside Meerkat - I think Weasel pointed this out as well. Anyway Ig's last post for the cycle has them shifting their vote after this vc: By this point, DF has shifted 36 minutes ago to Axl so Ig is actually seeing a 5/4 train landscape on Axl. Ig's response is to move their vote off Kanga and to park on Octo, which has the effect of decreasing the relative CW sizes. We go from: to: Which numerically is a very safe sidetrain to park on for the rest of the day, and as Dragonfly points out, Ig does acknowledge this since that's what they sus Octo for but also wind up doing: And yeah I se DF clarifies this is what they had in mind, ty DF. I think this is a fair observation btw. Rhino did in fact post thoughts. IDK if E!Rhino has the capacity to case someone else at EoD but Elim freezing at chaotic EoDs is definitely a thing too. I'd like some pressure on Toucan tomorrow btw. Toucan showing up to do just this is weird to me - I'm not fully convinced that Alb night voting here isn't performative (sorry Alb) but this is doubly so for Toucan. I get the sense I'm meant to think Toucan is this disconnected from the thread rather than Toucan actually being this disconnected. Given the OG votestate everyone was working off (depends on whether the Elims realised there were six on Kanga at EoD I guess), I'm crack theorising a world where one of the Elims ran off Gecko's votestate count and said "Hey guys we need a CW" and Toucan sees it in the doc and just votes without catching up. (The weirdness to me is - how does a player who dropped a vote and vanished also suddenly return having formed a strong opinion to vote on one of the largest EoD trains? Why does Axl look suspicious here? This reads to me like Toucan is actually following the thread or following instructions from someone. This can be explained by a doc going kayana about Kanga suddenly being endangered and considering Axl as a CW.) As an aside, I find Kanga's EoD vote odd - Kanga doesn't self-pres onto Axl which you think would be the logical CW here. Kanga votes on Weasel. I guess it's entirely possible Kanga was intending to hammer and got scared off by Gecko mentioning a counter-hammer. But I can see a world E!Kanga accepts going over and votes on Weasel to try to implicate V!Axl (I feel that unless Axl is an E!PR that is better than Kanga's, Kanga probably just CWs onto Axl here reasoning that whichever of them dies, the other one gets sweet distancing points.) Though I guess it's also possible Kanga is just very behind on the votestate since Kanga here seems to be responding to Gecko's ping. Side-note: To me, this indicates Gecko and Kanga are unlikely E/E. In an E!Kanga world, the Elim team is most likely acutely aware of votes on their teammates, and Gecko agreeing to actually bus Kanga here instead of just actually engineering the tie is less likely. ( @Ivory Dragonfly - I don't fully agree with the Gecko sus you mentioned so I'm trying to lay out my reasoning here. Not saying Gecko can't be Evil but not near my top suspect.)' Less likely because the main E!Gecko worlds here require Gecko to have just been mistaken about one of the late vote switches (still possible), or for Axl to be a more valuable Elim PR (Coinshot? Mistborn? Ig? IDK. Them being willing to yield a Seeker to potentially any Village Kandra lurking out there is strange to me regardless but this could be a best of a bad lot world.) I just think that given Gecko was willing to instigate a CW that got an Elim dead (via Beagle), unless Axl is some major E!PR, I think that should give Gecko some Village credit. It's true that Gecko wanted a Weasel vote, but Gecko was still willing to do the Kanga CW instead. @A Jo in the Bush / @The Unknown Medallion - Btw, could you put some version of the amended votes into the OP? I'm concerned people might use the wrong EoD votes when doing analysis after I'm too dead to yell at them for doing it; I just think we also need to keep the OG error version somewhere because that's what people might be working with. For similar reasons, I feel like Kanga's willingness to vote on Weasel might be indicative they're not paired (though I independently am weak V!reading Weasel for that Kanga vote at nearly 12 hours left in the cycle regardless.)  TLDR; FOR PEOPLE ALLERGIC TO READING: This is a 'if I die tonight' kind of wishlist / semi-readslist because I have things to do and might not be able to finish it: Lean weak V on Weasel for hard Kanga statement and vote on D1. Less likely for Weasel to be distancing given the train sizes at the point they signed off for the night and added an unnecessary third vote to Kanga, also given the hardness of Kanga sus statement. (Note: Weasel isn't really a Village whip by nature so I'm also not holding it against them that they didn't whip votes to Kanga.) Do not hardclear Weasel, but don't para(noia) exe Weasel this fast. Weasel is a helpful player. DF is probably V. I really liked DF's second post. For people who still aren't catching up with what DF said, DF actually stated outright in their second post that they sussed Octo for saying they'd have to guess until they found solid evidence. I immediately sympathised with/had a mindmeld with that position because requiring solid evidence to back a vote is a phrase that tends to come more from an Elim (see also my concerns with Flamingo earlier.) This is part of the reason I was not down with DF sus yesterday and stated as much. DON'T SLEEPWALK INTO A DF PARANOIA EXE, TYRIAN LURCHERS IN THIS GAME ARE NOT IMMORTAL, YES I KNOW ABOUT THE TARGETING RULE. IYKYK. Weak sus on Flamingo. I don't really like this response from Flamingo in terms of PoE not being sufficient evidence - as I said, it's giving very Elim "this isn't the right way to find me." At the same time, I concede Flamingo is correct that they voted on a CW to DF; however, we also don't know if that CW is Village (there are some E!Axl worlds) so Flamingo suggesting this gives them V!credit is weird to me because Flamingo stayed put on the Axl train at 11 minutes to EoD which indicates Flamingo made a conscious decision to remain on a train that also ended up being a CW to Kanga. (I would in fact argue that even in V!Axl worlds, Flamingo's vote would remain fixed: it's more important to Flamingo at that time of EoD that a Villager dies, and Flamingo might be concerned that shifting votes to endanger the v!Lurcher looks worse.) Lean weak V on Zebra. I acknowledge it's a perverse argument, but functionally Zebra had an early pressure test post I liked, and while I don't agree with Zebra's reasoning, I slightly am inclined to believe it emerges from a Villager headspace. Weak sus on Croc. Croc had a positive read/weak defence on Kanga, which I felt probably the polar opposite about. The vc at the time Croc swapped (you can reference this off the Croc post I linked) was 4/3 on DF to Kanga, and Croc voted on Axl, making the trains 4/3/3. I can see a world this is meant to protect Kanga, whom Croc self-admittedly V!reads. Kanga does in fact take a bone that Croc throws to them, which makes me wonder if this is a teammate interaction. Moderate V on Beagle. Think Beagle has been sensible in general and suggesting and being down with introducing Kanga as a CW does a lot for them in my eyes. Mild to moderate V on Gecko. I think there's a world E!Gecko suggested a CW to try to get votes off Axl and it's true Gecko called for a Weasel tie instead. In that world, Gecko is fine rolling the dice. However, Gecko was unaware of the actual Kanga votes, and was willing to vote on the Kanga CW. We can debate how much that's an Elim feeling forced by the Village, but given that Gecko fundamentally did something that led to a pro-Village outcome, and I think an E!Gecko/E!Kanga world is one where Kanga doesn't die (Gecko doesn't tell me to be aware of a hammer and just asks Kanga to belatedly hammer Axl, or just gives me the wrong train sizes), I would say "don't hardclear" (generally a very good principle in a Tyrian game regardless, particularly an AG  ) but that it's perverse not to give Village credit for doing Villagery things. This can be a 'revise later if necessary' type of read and anyway that's how tiered PoE works regardless. Lean v. weak V on Dingo, maybe null. I think that pushing me here feels more Villagery in that IDK if an Elim decides to do this after EoD yesterday (some would, tbf.) At the same time, Dingo's self-admitted EoD lurking doesn't make me feel comfortable either, because of the potential "Elim froze at chaotic EoD" energy. (I guess you could say E!Dingo doesn't admit this, I'm not sure.) Weak sus on Albatross. I wish I had a reason for this but I don't, which is ironic given we somewhat agree on Flamingo. I'll try to figure out why, I just don't...feel great about Alb for whatever reason. [Later Heron: I think it might be that I feel Alb is V!reading me a bit too easily/quickly off what was more or less moving thread engagement. I'm not sure.] Weak sus on Iguana. I agree with DF on Iguana - in short, Iguana logs off for the night and moves vote off Kanga and onto a convenient sidetrain, and lampshades they're sussing Octo for the same thing as they're doing. There's a kind of self-consciousness there I'm not sure I like the more I think about it and this fundamentally ends up protecting Kanga. Weak sus on Toucan. I feel this vote from Toucan doesn't make sense. A player who has vanished from the game with only two very early D1 posts should not be updated enough on the game to have an opinion on an EoD train, much less to feel comfortable about voting on one of the largest EoD trains. This to me suggests that Toucan is either following the game more than they're letting on (i.e. lurking) or that Toucan was prompted to by panicking teammates and was out of touch enough not to realise it. (Though tbh given the vote is 4.5 hours after EoD, it just feels performative or Village cred fishing to me too.) Neutral to slight sus on Ele. Ele hedging on DF [1][2] but ultimately pushing Meerkat isn't something I feel comfortable with - there's slight "Elim not wanting to incriminate self by committing to position on lead train about to flip Village" energy to it given the time Ele gave views on DF. Ele's argument that an Elim doesn't like to attract attention is...correct for certain Elims, and I give Ele some V!credit for it, but Ele also voted Meerkat for being too willing to change votes, just in a way that didn't grab attention. Null on Opal Lion. Don't think they've shown up. Null to slight sus on Plum Rhino. I take DF's point wrt potential Elim freeze response in Rhino; however, I am not sure E!Rhino has the capacity to case Octo at EoD. Might very well be true but I'm /shrug on this for now. Rhino mentioned being busy on D1 so what I want to see is more alignment-indicative content from Rhino going into D2. I will say that I agree with Rhino's thought process in their second post - I don't like the solid evidence phrasing either as I indicated earlier, and I feel like Octo thinking that DF is making a defensive vote switch at SoD - this is a p1 post - is minimally uncharitable and reads a bit "you treat me badly I treat you badly." Weak sus on Octo. I agree with DF - Octo's statement on solid evidence and just guessing at SoD reads Elim-coded to me, because it comes from a very defensive mindset from the get-go. I had wondered if I was being too uncharitable to Octo given that Octo's sus on DF for changing their vote for what was clearly a response to Octo rather than a naked vote, but Kanga also making the same assertion made me more neutral about it. In light of Kanga flipping E, I cannot give that benefit of the doubt anymore. As a side-note, Kanga does state trust of Octo. Given Kanga's thread confidence, I can see this being E/E. Octo being confident enough to say EoD "clears Dragonfly" (which Gecko picks up on) is making me wonder if that's an E!slip btw. I have difficulty seeing this confidence level coming from a player who starts the game being worried about solid evidence. Octo then repeatedly asking for "our top suspects" is odd to me - why the urgency? Why do you "need to know" who the top suspects are and "who we think the saboteurs are most likely to kill"? Shouldn't you be doing your own reads, given you also had a view on DF anyway, indicating you're at least partly caught up on the thread? In summation: Beagle / DF Gecko / Weasel Zebra Dingo Lion Rhino / Alb / Ele Iguana / Octo / Toucan / Croc / Flamingo I have a lot more suspicions than is normal for me but I guess sometimes life's just like that. Not ordered within tiers, this is just my way of talking about who I'd pressure first tomorrow, and who I think should be only gotten to in later revisions, e.g. don't revise Beagle until late-game, Beagle should probably be dead before that regardless. Anyway goodnight all, I think I don't have time for RP after all, sorry about that but I gotta do stuff. Heron logging off. EDITED TO ADD: FML forgot Axl. Current Axl view is: null, maybe a tiny bit of sus. I think pretty much any E!Gecko world requires E!Axl btw. I'd like an answer ( @Violet Axolotl ) on whether Axl knew that DF had claimed Lurcher and just Axl's whole mindset about that self-pres vote. There's a lot of attention in their posts to how they are being perceived. I just think that the train size on Axl before the switch also indicates the Elims were comfortable with this which should point to V!Axl...unless Gecko is E. Anyway I was struggling back and forth with whether Axl's response to DF is V or E, I might lean V after all in terms of Axl still being willing to self-pres onto DF but that depends on whether Axl saw the claim so /shrug. I don't like this. It feels very performative and reminiscent of Kanga's EoD - you would've been told by the GMs if you were dead so why would you be scared of EoD and why are you so invested in staying alive? Beagle / DF Gecko / Weasel Zebra Dingo Lion / Axl Rhino / Alb / Ele Iguana / Octo / Toucan / Croc / Flamingo To begin with, H.E.A.R.T.H heavily thanks the Heron for submitting this effort to the table. In its logs, H.E.A.R.T.H makes a mental recording of the Heron's suspicions to review later. H.E.A.R.T.H did want to make one comment, however. "I am inclined to believe the Axolotl is an ally for now. Before our interference at the very end of the day, it was set for death, and I doubt the monsters would have allowed it to remain in such a dangerous position. There is also, of course, the matter of the Claim." 6 hours ago, Melon Dingo said: Anyways, I definitely agree someone is probably lying especially with how powerful lurchers are this game... and i dont know if its smart to say this or not... but I definitely think its at least a good idea for Thugs to claim Lurcher, possibly some other roles as well. For thugs at least, when the attack doesnt go through elims almost certainly wont attack again if thats the claim. As they may assume the lurcher is just going to keep self protecting. H.E.A.R.T.H disagrees. "In a crew this large, it is very possible two of us claimed Iron medallions. However, I would propose one of two possibilities: either two good lurchers and one evil coinshot, or one good lurcher and one good coinshot and one evil lurcher. Of course, this is my first crew of this magnitude." 7 hours ago, Violet Axolotl said: I had read some on the lurcher claim, didn't think much of it and didn't see where it came from. For the self-pres thing, DF has the most votes other than me, and I already was slightly sus of them from vibes, so I decided to switch to them to increase my changes of not being voted out. I checked the thread as soon as I woke up, so I didn't even look to see if I had any PMs. Plus, I didn't know how it would work if I got bored out, wasn't sure if I'd be PMed. I want to stay alive because duh this game is fun and I don't want to die. I'm gonna do something that may be a bad idea buttt I'm claiming lurcher Gtg to bed now See y'all tomorrow Axolotl, since you already went to bed I don't know if you'll see this, but I want to make some things clear: Next cycle, if you are alive, we will wish to know who you protected. And on that matter, I would highly recommend protecting the Heron. Claiming Lurcher is absolutely useless to the village if you only use it to self pres, and you're already suspected; your abilities would be best used on someone we know is good, and at this point, Mint Heron is a valuable resource. 2 hours ago, Sapphire Elephant said: Well, this game is very active... I'm going to go do evening read now, see ya'll in the day. Hopefully I can catch up tomorrow. ~ Klin rummaged through his pack to see what else he could sell. He emerged with a book. "The Way of Kings by King Nohadon, selling for 50 boxings! I have copies in Vorin Women's Script, Nalthian and whatever the language in the Elendel Basin speaks!" That sound caught H.E.A.R.T.H's attention. Something about those words resonated with its memories. And so, on a whim, it approached the merchant. "Greetings." It looked up at him. "I have no cash, but could I pay in any other form? Perhaps some service?" Edited January 7 by Taupe Gecko SOMEONE PLEASE POST SO I DON'T HAVE TO DOUBLE POST AN HOUR LATER
Onyx Flamingo Posted January 7 Posted January 7 7 hours ago, Melon Dingo said: I feel disproportionately called out here  I will say, I basically only looked for vote posts and then looked for reasoning in the post. Sadly, this thread seems allergic to organizing their thoughts in ways easy to analyze Gotta say, your TLDR needs a TLDR i cant make it through ok i did make it through im just playing into your cant read acusations. (Wait, I just realized theres a bunch of posts above Heron's I didnt realize existed... really not beating the cant read accusation xD) I mean, my last post was right before the 11 minute warning so I wouldnt really consider it lurking but dont worry elim!me would probably say it too The point is to be *too defensive*? -------- again just for a little RP. Stormseeker, this time with no scarf, went down to the engine room. There was usually a store of investiture there he could use. So far, no one had caught him or reported it missing. He went down there and found the usual stash and grabbed another 50 BEU. Immediately an alarm went off. Someone this time had clearly noticed someone was doing this. He fled back towards the bridge, not looking back. The point is to be defensive (didnt mean to add the too there) 2 hours ago, Mint Heron said: Still busy so I skimmed and will just triage anything important: @Melon Dingo: So sorry, you stood out to me while the other three people who did it D1 blurred into a meaningless blob in my head or I @ them too RE Lurcher claim: yes but watch for the number of strikes/kills in say the next 3 cycles. A 2-3 Lurcher game is one with an E!CS, or possibly a lot of E!MB, and probably at least one E!Lurcher. I don't think it's run in a sub-20 game but will never recommend a role-exe this early. If by C3 or latest C5 (not sure about the numbers, just fudging) it's clearly the case that there's very little KP in this game, then we need to reconsider a fakeclaim world in one of them. @Indigo Weasel: I know you don't do distro meta so I'm just gonna tell you right now the last 3 Lurcher game we ran was AG8 with a lot of Thugs, and an E!CS. Do with this info as you wish. I would hesitate to form the PoE on a distro basis on the two of them on D2 especially in a game Jo is running due to the BS he pulled with a Lifeless Commander distro but you do you. @Onyx Flamingo: Ok but do you not see the problem with your new response? I pointed out that you had a fairly defensive tic in your response to Alb and your response is to say I want you to lie down and die. It's just... Two people expressing sus of you. I have a gigantic sus list myself and you're one point on it. Why has this translated to wanting you to accept death in your head? I think for instance you could have pointed to other villagery things you did, or just offered some reads/thoughts for the night. (Basically what I did anyway as Dingo also susses me.) Suspicions are not static and everyone is ok revising on you if you seem villagery. In general high defensiveness tends to skew Elim so that level of response cannot really make me improve my read. Axl claiming Lurcher really doesn't mesh with their behaviour btw. It's something I'd relook by say C3 or the C5 mark given more info. I am asking you how else I was supposed to defend myself? I felt a little hurt (i know i know stupid little mafia game) because it felt like you were e!leaning me for defending myself. The point of the post was just asking 'well how should I have defended myself then?' and I do admit it got a little to defense (as I pointed out in my post). But I do feel like villagers would also be defensive. To win, both the villagers and the elims have to live. So it is not telling of one way or another if they defend themselves.
Taupe Gecko Posted January 7 Posted January 7 H.E.A.R.T.H sat alone in the mess hall as it ran its analysis. Funny, how this chamber had been so full for most of the day. Now, it sat empty, quiet, almost peaceful. The calm before the storm. But inside, H.E.A.R.T.H's mind was panic. The monsters were likely to strike again before dawn. It was merely the way things went. And so - despite everything, despite the world it had only just began to discover - H.E.A.R.T.H's story could end here. There was no way around it. No escape. Its survival depended on the choice of killers and saboteurs. H.E.A.R.T.H could die here. But its story could not. It would not allow it. And so H.E.A.R.T.H began to solve. Using the Dingo's notes: Quote Votes in Order Dragonfly on Zebra (poke) Octopus on Meerkat (poke) Kangaroo on Crocodile (double poke) Dragonfly off Zebra on Octopus (didn't like acknowledging randomness) Weasel on Dragonfly (poke but seems like a response to Dragonfly's anti-guessing) Dingo on Iguana (poke) Iguana on Kangaroo (poke) Crocodile on Meerkat (Voting Dragonfly) Meerkat on Kangaroo (vote with no reason) - Puts Kangaroo tied with Dragonfly Heron on Dingo (no reason) Dingo off Iguana on Axolotl (acting confused while posting) Beagle off Axolotl on Elephant (inconsistent voting) Heron off Dingo on Axolotl (no reason) Dragonfly off Octopus on Toucan (poke) Gecko off Crocodile on Gecko (gimmick) Crocodile off Meerkat on Axolotl (sus and counter dragonfly) Flamingo on Axolotl (mirror Croc) - Axolotl and Dragonfly tied with Kangaroo one behind Axolotl off Kangaroo on Dragonfly (no reason) Weasel off Dragonfly on Kangaroo (doesn't like 3 quick votes (2nd-4th on Dragonfly above)) - Ties vote again between Dragonfly and Axolotl with Kangaroo 1 vote behind Dragonfly off Toucan on Axolotl (self pres) Gecko off Dragonfly on Weasel (cause didn't like Dragonfly train and why not?) Gecko off Weasel on Kangaroo (wants tie without dragonfly) - Axolotle-6, Kangaroo-3, Dragonfly-3 Beagle off Axolotl on Kangaroo (same as Gecko) - Axolotle-5, Kangaroo-4, Dragonfly-3 H.E.A.R.T.H didn't have the time to go over the specific cases of each of these; a timestamp for the votes would have been nice, but no matter. It would have to work with what it had available. H.E.A.R.T.H was never partial to reads. They were so abstract, so prone to change, so dependent in minute variations in order. So H.E.A.R.T.H intended to take as precise an approach as possible. Examining the Kangaroo's behavior: The first noted meaningful appearance of Kanga was to vote the Croc - a "double poke". Wait. What? Dingo's notes were... incorrect. That was annoying. (OOC - Dingo what the heck man. You didn't note my first vote on Croc and when I retracted you said I did it onto "myself"? "Gimmick"?) Anyways, Kanga backed up H.E.A.R.T.H to start a train on the Croc. The next mention of Kanga was a poke from Iguana. Meerkat then voted Kangaroo as well - presumably with no reason. The next mention of Kanga was Axolotl getting off the train - what the rusts? These notes made no sense. With only 20 minutes till dawn, H.E.A.R.T.H decided to take matters into their own hands. Logging into the TYRIAN's official recordings, it reviewed the events for itself. (OOC - I ended up doing a word search for Kangaroo in the main thread cause wtf Dingo). There! The first appearance of the Kangaroo - Isabel - was to poke the Crocodile (Sunday, 12 PM). So Dingo got that right. VC (as per Isabel): mauve crocodile:taupe gecko, sage kangaroo salmon meerkat: scarlet octopus Sapphire elephant: sunburst toucan Ivory dragonfly: indigo weasel Eventually, Iguana poked Isabel (Sunday, 3:24 PM). Axolotl also pokes Isabel shortly after (Sunday, 3:34 PM) with no reasoning. H.E.A.R.T.H viewed the possibility of one of these two early, meaningless votes to be potential distancing attempts by fellow monsters as likely. When analyzing, the Croc finds the Axolotl's hop on Isabel suspicious. On a random topic, while reviewing the records, H.E.A.R.T.H did not like an exchange between the Meerkat and the Octopus - the Octopus' side in particular, although both were weird. But with the clock ticking, it had no time to consider that now. Eventually, Isabel switched to Ivory Dragonfly for no reason (Sunday, 5:00 PM). Meerkat switches vote to Isabel for not having reasoning (Sunday 7 PM). For that, H.E.A.R.T.H finds it unlikely they were in collusion as that move would put Isabel in significant danger. VC: Scarlet Octopus (1): Ivory Dragonfly Sapphire Elephant (1): Sunburst Toucan Salmon Meerkat (2): Mauve Crocodile, Magenta Albatross Sage Kangaroo (3); Violet Axolotl, Salmon Meerkat, Saffron Iguana Saffron Iguana (1): Melon Dingo Mauve Crocodile (2): Taupe Gecko, Quartz Zebra Ivory Dragonfly (3): Scarlet Octopus, Sage Kangaroo, Indigo Weasel Eventually, Isabel reached a state of a three way tie for execution on Monday morning. H.E.A.R.T.H broke that state by voting the Dragonfly. Mint Heron dislikes Isabel while the Croc actively likes her. A while later, the Axolotl switches to the Dragonfly in self-preservation. Weasel votes Isabel (Monday 9:40 PM). Violet Axolotl (4): Onyx Flamingo, Mint Heron, Melon Dingo, Mauve Crocodile Sunburst Toucan (1): Ivory Dragonfly Sapphire Elephant (2): Sunburst Toucan, Oxblood Beagle Salmon Meerkat (2): Sapphire Elephant, Magenta Albatross Sage Kangaroo (3): Salmon Meerkat, Saffron Iguana, Indigo Weasel Mauve Crocodile (1): Quartz Zebra Ivory Dragonfly (4): Violet Axolotl, Taupe Gecko, Scarlet Octopus, Sage Kangaroo The Iguana returns and leaves Isabel to vote the Octopus. The Heron- H.E.A.R.T.H stopped. Five minutes. No, less. Less than five minutes until the ship announced its construct of dawn, and someone would be dead. And H.E.A.R.T.H might be dead. There was no more time. There HAD to be time. There was no time. H.E.A.R.T.H wheeled, frantic, shuffling through the recordings. None of them mattered. None of them could save it now. What- what to do? H.E.A.R.T.H saw a piece of paper lying on the table. Glorious. Alone, it began to scrawl. It scrawled down everything. The little it had found. THREE MINUTES Suspicions, suspicions, suspicions. What suspicions did it have? WHO WAS SUSPICIOUS? Heron was clear, Dragonfly was clear, the Beagle was clear, Meerkat? Maybe clear. Iguana had to be looked into. TWO MINUTES Octopus said something weird. Octopus had to be looked into. What else, WHAT ELSE? There was nothing else. H.E.A.R.T.H knew nothing else. H.E.A.R.TH knew nothing. Nothing. ONE MINUTE Everything was nothing. Death was nothing. Death was everything. A woman's arms. Lying. Coughing up blood. Smiling. She smiled back. A tear, falling. Nothing. Â
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