secret project [Discuss] The Fires Of December translation

[PanicPug]

I just read the newsletter with the written version of the preview chapters. 

While I really like the premise and story so far (and am quite interested how the time travel will be explained, in a way that fits into the Cosmere), the name December bugs me quite a bit. While Sanderson's reasoning is that the name is a translation of a translation, why do we need that second translation in the first place?

As with TotES and YatNP this new Secret Project seems to be a story that Hoid tells to an audience in the Cosmere. So why wouldn't he use the name of the respective world's or culture's last month? I really enjoyed how there were these subtle nods to the (lowercase) listeners of the previous stories (like the mention of Linji or eating marbles) and it's a bummer that it isn't happening here. I think something similar would really deepen the immersion of this story.

On top of that even in our world this translation only really makes sense for the Roman/Christian calendar.

Am I alone with this or how do you all think and feel about this?

[Pagerunner he/him]

15 minutes ago, PanicPug said:

I just read the newsletter with the written version of the preview chapters. 

While I really like the premise and story so far (and am quite interested how the time travel will be explained, in a way that fits into the Cosmere), the name December bugs me quite a bit. While Sanderson's reasoning is that the name is a translation of a translation, why do we need that second translation in the first place?

As with TotES and YatNP this new Secret Project seems to be a story that Hoid tells to an audience in the Cosmere. So why wouldn't he use the name of the respective world's or culture's last month? I really enjoyed how there were these subtle nods to the (lowercase) listeners of the previous stories (like the mention of Linji or eating marbles) and it's a bummer that it isn't happening here. I think something similar would really deepen the immersion of this story.

On top of that even in our world this translation only really makes sense for the Roman/Christian calendar.

Am I alone with this or how do you all think and feel about this?

I, personally, had no problems with the name, but your complaint was a pretty common one at Nexus.

Brandon spoke a little bit more about it the day afterwards:

Quote

Questioner

The previous Hoid stories, Yumi and Tress; based on his word choice… I know they’re, like, translations. Based on his previous word choices, we kind of assumed he was telling these stories to a Rosharan.

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah. Well, Each of those two books are told to different audiences.

Questioner

How does Hoid know the word December? Who is he talking to?

Brandon Sanderson

I use Grandpa Tolkien’s philosophy on this. Did you know that Sam’s name isn’t Sam? What is Sam’s name, Hilgo? I can’t remember. But for an English-speaking audience, Tolkien translated his name, because he said in their language, Sam’s name was something like a common name from ancient religious lore that’s been shortened into a cute nickname like Sam is. You can go read about this; that’s not his actual name.

I think there is definitely an argument for fantasy authors to try to not kick people out; but at the same time, there is madness in trying to say, “Well, I can’t use this word, because…” The one that I bring up: you usually wouldn’t use the word ottoman, because it comes from the Ottoman Empire; but at the same time, it’s been genericized to be an ottoman. There are so many words in English that, if you actually go to the history, and be like, “Well, this was named for a person. This word that we use. Does that mean we can’t use that word in fantasy?” I think in that direction lies madness.

So the way that we deal with it, that Tolkien said (and I read this essay by him years and years ago, before I even became a professional author, and I said, that’s the way I’m gonna do it), is that Brandon Sanderson is presenting this to you in translation. And I want you to understand; whenever anyone in that world hears December’s name, they don’t hear a normal name that you’re used to. They hear the name of a month. And they’re like, “Well that’s odd, that she’s named after a month.” They don’t hear that, like… When you hear Sanderson, you probably say, “Oh, that’s a name.” You don’t hear, “Oh, that came from Alexander’s Son.” Because it’s just become a name that we hear. But they stop when they hear her name. Because of that, I want to put it in translation into English in a way where you read it, you’re reminded of her heritage, and that her mother gave her this unique name, and she’s named after the day of the month, and kind of evoking that early first few paragraphs.

That’s how I approach doing this. And it’s been my philosophy since the beginning. And that’s why there’s, you know, homicidal hat trick in Mistborn 3. In all of Wit’s stories, one of the things that I’ve done is, he’s doing lots of interesting puns. Those would have to be completely different puns in their language. You just kind of have to put this filter over the top, where you’re like, “Brandon is presenting it to me so I have a certain feeling. When he names something allomancy or feruchemy, or things like this...” Greek and Latin don’t exist on Scadrial. Why do we have these Greek and Latin origin of names? Well, they have their own linguistic systems that evoke the same feeling.

To go otherwise, I think, lies madness. I know this is kind of a blanket “Brandon can do whatever he wants.” That’s why I do it! But I did know that December is name, in particular, like… There was some discussion; do I change it? And sometimes, when you’re a writer, you’re just like, my artistic intent… I love that name. That’s who she is. And I had that name from sentence one. I’m not gonna change that; it’s too intrinsic to the soul of the piece of art. I do understand that there are some that that kicks out, and I totally understand that. That’s not an invalid complaint. But do understand that this is how I approach all of the writing.

That doesn’t mean I won’t try to not kick you out when I can. I do know that switching from courting to dating bothered some people in Stormlight Five, and they’re right. If I could go back, I would change that one. Because there’s no real reason to use one or the other, except one does evoke just a little bit more of that classical feel. There definitely are valid complaints, and things I would change if it gets highlighted.

Footnote: Samwise Gamgee's in-universe name is Banazîr Galbasi.
Dragonsteel Nexus 2025 (Dec. 5, 2025)

 

[Through the Living Hopper He/Him]

4 hours ago, PanicPug said:

I just read the newsletter with the written version of the preview chapters. 

While I really like the premise and story so far (and am quite interested how the time travel will be explained, in a way that fits into the Cosmere), the name December bugs me quite a bit. While Sanderson's reasoning is that the name is a translation of a translation, why do we need that second translation in the first place?

As with TotES and YatNP this new Secret Project seems to be a story that Hoid tells to an audience in the Cosmere. So why wouldn't he use the name of the respective world's or culture's last month? I really enjoyed how there were these subtle nods to the (lowercase) listeners of the previous stories (like the mention of Linji or eating marbles) and it's a bummer that it isn't happening here. I think something similar would really deepen the immersion of this story.

On top of that even in our world this translation only really makes sense for the Roman/Christian calendar.

Am I alone with this or how do you all think and feel about this?

It bothered me quite a bit, too, but I can see why he did it. I mean, there isn't really a good other way for him too make her name that of a month.

That being said, I do dislike what Hoid says about it, because it makes him seem Earth-aware.

[PanicPug]

5 hours ago, Ookla the Hoppy said:

I mean, there isn't really a good other way for him too make her name that of a month.

Why not if I may ask?

While we publicly (as readers) know the most about the Vorin calendar on Roshar, at least some of the other planets seem to have their calendars set (internally at Dragonsteel) as well.

- The Scadrian Broadsheets have dates in them and the months in Era 2 are named after Kelsier's crew members.

- Of the Aonic calendar a few days and months are mentioned in Elantris as are some of the MaiPon calendar in TES.

- WS Omnibus has a dedicated Arcanum page regarding timekeeping on Taldain so maybe they also have the calendar worked out.

- Several other world's/cultures/places' calendars are mentioned here and there, e.g. a Silverlight calendar (which might serve as a more universally known or standardized system later on the Cosmere and could make sense depending on when and where Hoid tells the story).

With a universe and its worlds as clearly defined and built as Sanderson's I feel using an in-world last month's name would fit somewhat better.

I know that there's always a lot of fictional translation going on with the description of things in fantasy worlds so we as readers have a frame of reference. But with such an important element of a story like the name of a character or even more the main character, this feels out of place in a universe where our earth doesn't exist; also compared to Tolkien whose Middle-Earth stories were meant as a mythology for our own world (especially Britain).

[Cosmer]

The way Hoid references the translation was clunky for sure. The name itself doesn’t bother me at all…

 

Would’ve like it to read more like him calling her “December” and then remarking about how he’s curious how this will be translated to future readers or listeners - as it’s a very odd name. 

Edited December 14, 2025 by Cosmer

[Argenti he/him]

9 hours ago, PanicPug said:

- The Scadrian Broadsheets have dates in them and the months in Era 2 are named after Kelsier's crew members.

 

That just seems like they're naming December after a Crew Member. Do you think "month" when you hear Breeze? 
 

[PanicPug]

1 hour ago, Ookla The Silver said:

That just seems like they're naming December after a Crew Member. Do you think "month" when you hear Breeze? 

Oh yes, if the months are just the names of known characters I'm with you and that would also kinda defeat the purpose. But the Vorin Ishi would still be distinctive enough from Ishar and for Scadrial the months' names also feel distinctive enough from the characters they're based on:

Quote

Known months include Vinuarch (named after Vin), Doxil (named after Dockson), Hammondar (named after Hammond), Cladence (named after Cladent), and Marewill (named after Mare).

(as per the Coppermind)

Edited December 14, 2025 by PanicPug

[Argenti he/him]

11 minutes ago, PanicPug said:

Oh yes, if the months are just the names of known characters I'm with you and that would also kinda defeat the purpose. But the Vorin Ishi would still be distinctive enough from Ishar and for Scadrial the months' names also feel distinctive enough from the characters they're based on:

Quote

I suppose. But again, for the ease of us, as readers, it's easier for us, with actual, real associations. The rest of these are just words, not matter what we say they are. Why give anything an English name- Smoker brings to mind obscuring something, but Brandon could have just made an in-universe name up as well. Word choice is very specific, and making up new words can dilute that. Odium feels different than the other shards, because of how latin it's name is.

[PanicPug]

55 minutes ago, Ookla The Silver said:

I suppose. But again, for the ease of us, as readers, it's easier for us, with actual, real associations. The rest of these are just words, not matter what we say they are. Why give anything an English name- Smoker brings to mind obscuring something, but Brandon could have just made an in-universe name up as well. Word choice is very specific, and making up new words can dilute that. Odium feels different than the other shards, because of how latin it's name is.

Those are good points you make and I get where you're coming from. Oftentimes it makes absolute sense to "translate" words and descriptions for easier understanding on the reader's side; though in the Cosmere I have the feeling that this isn't even super prevalent, seeing how many words are not "translated", especially in something like TSA with Fabrials, Chulls, Crem, etc. but also Boxings in MB, and so on.

Names are a special case for me though and I think most of the time they're not (or at least less) "translated" in Fantasy and Sci-Fi. Otherwise Roshar would be named "Stormworld" and "Stormland" or similar, Scadrial "Metalworld" etc.

Along that same line of thought I feel "Smoker" and most of the other Mistings and other Magic Systems' "Classes" are more a description of their role or skills than an actual abstract name of their "Class": Seeker, Coinshot, Skimmer, Windrunner, Truthwatcher, Awakener...

Therefore if "December" in our world would instead be called "Lastmonth" or "Year's End" or something descriptive I'd be right with you, but even in English it instead has an abstract name; and the originally Latin descriptive one of "Tenth Month" doesn't make any sense anymore (due to Julius Cesar and some other Roman bloke iirc  nvm that, it was due to January and February, which were originally not part of any month, being added to the calendar at a later date).

Edited December 14, 2025 by PanicPug
Corrected accidental misinformation about Julius Cesar being responsible for adding extra months to the calendar