Ideals and Savantism

[Xanpheon]

Savantism is defined as the nature of the Savant's spiritweb being modified by the investiture flowing through it when they channel their Invested Art. A good example in-SA for this are Soulcasters - we know that the fact they begin to turn into the essence their bound fabrial has control over is the result of Savantism. Further, we also know from WoB that Savantism does affect Knights Radiant, but they're affected differently and in a "much less pronounced" way from certain effects of it by the Nahel bond:
 

Spoiler

Questioner 1

Do all Soulcasters risk turning into the element or is it only those using the device?

Brandon Sanderson

All Soulcasters have an affinity but the ones using the device are locked down much more than the Soulcasters who are Knights Radiant.

Questioner 1

So they are protected from being turned into--

Brandon Sanderson

Oh no they-- I wouldn't say protected... *clarification* Protected is the wrong term but that event, the savanthood and how it affects them and things like that is much less pronounced if you are a [Knight].

Questioner 1

Or is that counteracted by the healing as well?

Brandon Sanderson

Healing doesn't have to do with it because-- in cosmere terms there's nothing wrong with your body, your spirit is actually drifting, and so it's not hurting you physically by what's happening with the magics. So it's not the healing but if you have an active bond with a spren it takes a little different path. Let's just say, in simple terms--

Questioner 1

You are not losing body parts to smoke.

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, you are not losing body parts to smoke. 

Questioner 1

What timeframe does it happen for the normal Soulcasters then?

Brandon Sanderson

For normal Soulcasters? It takes-- I mean, you've seen it happening in the books. We are talking [about] a process of years even decades, depending on the person. It happens to some--

Questioner 2

Depending on how often they Soulcast?

Brandon Sanderson

It depends on how often they Soulcast, and it depends on the person. 

Oathbringer Leeds signing (Dec. 1, 2017)

So, here's the question:

Since:

1. Savantism is the result of excessive amounts of investiture flowing through the spiritweb of the user, forcing it to adapt in a way and often leading to physiological changes of greater or lesser impact (Soulcasters being a great example of the more extreme end).
2. The Nahel bond is what allows for the channeling of Investiture for an aspiring Knight Radiant, with each Ideal increasing not only the strength/amount of Investiture you can carry and use but how long your body can hold it before losing it.
3. Swearing an ideal gives the user and those nearby an extreme amount of Investiture that refills for a short while, empowering them and those around them to fight while functioning as a temporary font of Investiture similar to a Dalinar's perpendicularities.

Did Honor design the Radiant ideals by using the Nahel bond as a way to achieve a controlled form of Savantism?

Each Ideal sworn provides an inoculation, a heavy dose of Investiture, while also further bonding the paired Spren to your spiritweb. Welding extra investiture to your spiritual aspect is almost exactly like the definition of Savantism, but this time with the benefit of being done intentionally, in a way that has minimal detrimental impact on the practitioner.

Not only does the quantity and duration of held Stormlight increase with each level, but the skill at manipulating that Stormlight and your particular Surges often increases at the same time. The interesting part there is the "quantity and duration" part to me, because we know humans are "leaky" to Stormlight, partly as a result of its natural inclination to dissipate back into the atmosphere to fuel the Rosharan ecosystem and partly because there's something unique about the structure of gemstones that makes them much better at keeping the Stormlight trapped inside themselves.

The bond to a Spren patching the holes in the spiritweb that let Stormlight leak out so rapidly, the surge of investiture that acts as a fuel to drive the change, would line up with the descriptions of Savantism we know about, and it would also explain the comment about "if you have an active bond with the spren it takes a little different path".

Edited November 13, 2025 by Xanpheon
Editing for clarity in point, that the ideals are designed to mimic the effects of savantism

[Treamayne]

2 hours ago, Xanpheon said:

Is the Nahel bond a way to achieve a controlled form of Savantism?

Each Ideal sworn provides an inoculation, a heavy dose of Investiture, while also further bonding the paired Spren to your spiritweb.

Unlikely. As you say, the leakage from the Spiritual Realm as an Oath is sworn is short and fast and infrequent. Savantism takes a long time. Kaza was soulcasting weekly her whole adult life, and only started losing parts to smoke fairly recently (a few years). Mistborn Spoilers:

Spoiler

The fastest example seen was Hero of Ages (further Spoilers)

Spoiler

Spook was Flaring Tin every waking hour of every day for a year before he started seeing physiological changes to his body by the warping Spiritweb. 

 

Hope that helps

[Trusk'our he/him]

5 hours ago, Xanpheon said:

Savantism is defined as the nature of the Savant's spiritweb being modified by the investiture flowing through it when they channel their Invested Art. A good example in-SA for this are Soulcasters - we know that the fact they begin to turn into the essence their bound fabrial has control over is the result of Savantism. Further, we also know from WoB that Savantism does affect Knights Radiant, but they're affected differently and in a "much less pronounced" way from certain effects of it by the Nahel bond:
 

  Reveal hidden contents

Questioner 1

Do all Soulcasters risk turning into the element or is it only those using the device?

Brandon Sanderson

All Soulcasters have an affinity but the ones using the device are locked down much more than the Soulcasters who are Knights Radiant.

Questioner 1

So they are protected from being turned into--

Brandon Sanderson

Oh no they-- I wouldn't say protected... *clarification* Protected is the wrong term but that event, the savanthood and how it affects them and things like that is much less pronounced if you are a [Knight].

Questioner 1

Or is that counteracted by the healing as well?

Brandon Sanderson

Healing doesn't have to do with it because-- in cosmere terms there's nothing wrong with your body, your spirit is actually drifting, and so it's not hurting you physically by what's happening with the magics. So it's not the healing but if you have an active bond with a spren it takes a little different path. Let's just say, in simple terms--

Questioner 1

You are not losing body parts to smoke.

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, you are not losing body parts to smoke. 

Questioner 1

What timeframe does it happen for the normal Soulcasters then?

Brandon Sanderson

For normal Soulcasters? It takes-- I mean, you've seen it happening in the books. We are talking [about] a process of years even decades, depending on the person. It happens to some--

Questioner 2

Depending on how often they Soulcast?

Brandon Sanderson

It depends on how often they Soulcast, and it depends on the person. 

Oathbringer Leeds signing (Dec. 1, 2017)

So, here's the question:

Since:

1. Savantism is the result of excessive amounts of investiture flowing through the spiritweb of the user, forcing it to adapt in a way and often leading to physiological changes of greater or lesser impact (Soulcasters being a great example of the more extreme end).
2. The Nahel bond is what allows for the channeling of Investiture for an aspiring Knight Radiant, with each Ideal increasing not only the strength/amount of Investiture you can carry and use but how long your body can hold it before losing it.
3. Swearing an ideal gives the user and those nearby an extreme amount of Investiture that refills for a short while, empowering them and those around them to fight while functioning as a temporary font of Investiture similar to a Dalinar's perpendicularities.

Is the Nahel bond a way to achieve a controlled form of Savantism?

Each Ideal sworn provides an inoculation, a heavy dose of Investiture, while also further bonding the paired Spren to your spiritweb. 

Not only does the quantity and duration of held Stormlight increase with each level, but the skill at manipulating that Stormlight and your particular Surges often increases at the same time. The interesting part there is the "quantity and duration" part to me, because we know humans are "leaky" to Stormlight, partly as a result of its natural inclination to dissipate back into the atmosphere to fuel the Rosharan ecosystem and partly because there's something unique about the structure of gemstones that makes them much better at keeping the Stormlight trapped inside themselves.

The bond to a Spren patching the holes in the spiritweb that let Stormlight leak out so rapidly, the surge of investiture that acts as a fuel to drive the change, would line up with the descriptions of Savantism we know about, and it would also explain the comment about "if you have an active bond with the spren it takes a little different path".

Savantism has actually been compared to an uncontrolled version of a Spren bond. 

Mistborn spoilers:

Spoiler

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/309-miscellaneous-2016/#e8115

Brandon Sanderson

Warning, Evgeni. I'm really considering doing a backpedal on savants. The more i think about them, the less I'm not liking how my current course has them being treated in upcoming books. I think it deviates too far from my original vision.

Argent

Hey, I wouldn't normally contact you directly like this, but given that you thought it important enough to reach out and let me know you might change how savants work, I figured you probably wouldn't be too upset by this message. I replied to your Facebook comment, asking if you could clarify a little bit which aspects of savantism you are thinking of keeping and/or cutting. I don't need an essay on the topic (though you know I'd love one!), just some details on what we can consider canon for theories, and what we should be careful around.

Brandon Sanderson

Evgeni,

So here's the problem. The more I dig into savants in the later outlines, the more I feel that I'm in a dangerous area--in that I'm disobeying their original intention. (Which is that using the power so much that it permeates your soul can be dangerous, a kind of uncontrolled version of a spren bond.)

And so, I don't want to let myself just start making people savants right and left. It needs to be a specific thing. Wax is the troubling one, as I have him burning so much steel that he's well on his way, but isn't showing any side effects. If I'm going to give him savant-like abilities, he needs savant-like consequences.

That's the danger, just falling back on savanthood to do some of the things I want, so often that it undermines the actual point and purpose of them in the cosmere lore.

So if I backpedal, it will be to contain this and point myself the right way, sharply curtailing my desire to make people savants without their savanthood being an intrinsic part of their story and conflict in life. (Like it was for Spook, and is for Soulcasting savants on Roshar.)

Feel free to share this.

Argent

Okay, so - if you do decide to go this route, I see the story implications (larger focus on consequences, less easy to get to the point where a character can be considered a savant). What I am not sure about is the potential for a mechanical change. Would a backpedal on your side cause a conflict with information you've shared with us, in or out of your books? Are you saying that it's possible that Wax won't be considered a savant (if you can't squeeze a good ramifications plot for him that doesn't contradict the apparent lack of consequences so far, for example)?

Brandon Sanderson

I haven't decided on anything yet. It's mostly consequences for the future--just a kind of, "be aware I'm not 100% pleased with how Wax turned out, re: savanthood and Allomantic resonance."

The idea of resonance is that two powers, combined, meld kind of into one single power. This is a manifestation of the way Shards combine. Wax was intended as a savant of the two melded powers. But without consequences in his plot, I'm not confident that I'll continue in the same vein for future books.

 

Footnote: The first message comes from Brandon reaching out to Argent (Evgeni) on Facebook with a follow-up regarding this entry. This rest is from a Reddit PM exchange between Argent and Brandon.

So at the very least they're conceptually similar. 

Personally, I think they could overlap, but I don't think a more deeply bonded Radiant should Realmatically count as a Savant.

Then again, Radiant Savantism has been called out as being different, so I don't know for sure.

[Xanpheon]

 

17 hours ago, Treamayne said:

Unlikely. As you say, the leakage from the Spiritual Realm as an Oath is sworn is short and fast and infrequent. Savantism takes a long time. Kaza was soulcasting weekly her whole adult life, and only started losing parts to smoke fairly recently (a few years). Mistborn Spoilers:

  Hide contents

The fastest example seen was Hero of Ages (further Spoilers)

  Hide contents

Spook was Flaring Tin every waking hour of every day for a year before he started seeing physiological changes to his body by the warping Spiritweb. 

 

Hope that helps

I want to clarify here I'm not saying that it is exactly the same as raw, uncontrolled Savantism of the kind Spook developed after flaring for a year. I do specify a "controlled" form of Savantism because that's exactly what the effects of the Spren bond seem to do, from the description of how we have of how Savantism and how the Radiant bond works.

Savantism is literally described by Sanderson as very similar to an uncontrolled spren bond (in fact, I'm going to borrow Trusk'our's quote here):
 

Spoiler

Brandon Sanderson

Warning, Evgeni. I'm really considering doing a backpedal on savants. The more i think about them, the less I'm not liking how my current course has them being treated in upcoming books. I think it deviates too far from my original vision.

Argent

Hey, I wouldn't normally contact you directly like this, but given that you thought it important enough to reach out and let me know you might change how savants work, I figured you probably wouldn't be too upset by this message. I replied to your Facebook comment, asking if you could clarify a little bit which aspects of savantism you are thinking of keeping and/or cutting. I don't need an essay on the topic (though you know I'd love one!), just some details on what we can consider canon for theories, and what we should be careful around.

Brandon Sanderson

Evgeni,

So here's the problem. The more I dig into savants in the later outlines, the more I feel that I'm in a dangerous area--in that I'm disobeying their original intention. (Which is that using the power so much that it permeates your soul can be dangerous, a kind of uncontrolled version of a spren bond.)

And so, I don't want to let myself just start making people savants right and left. It needs to be a specific thing. Wax is the troubling one, as I have him burning so much steel that he's well on his way, but isn't showing any side effects. If I'm going to give him savant-like abilities, he needs savant-like consequences.

That's the danger, just falling back on savanthood to do some of the things I want, so often that it undermines the actual point and purpose of them in the cosmere lore.

So if I backpedal, it will be to contain this and point myself the right way, sharply curtailing my desire to make people savants without their savanthood being an intrinsic part of their story and conflict in life. (Like it was for Spook, and is for Soulcasting savants on Roshar.)

Feel free to share this.

Argent

Okay, so - if you do decide to go this route, I see the story implications (larger focus on consequences, less easy to get to the point where a character can be considered a savant). What I am not sure about is the potential for a mechanical change. Would a backpedal on your side cause a conflict with information you've shared with us, in or out of your books? Are you saying that it's possible that Wax won't be considered a savant (if you can't squeeze a good ramifications plot for him that doesn't contradict the apparent lack of consequences so far, for example)?

Brandon Sanderson

I haven't decided on anything yet. It's mostly consequences for the future--just a kind of, "be aware I'm not 100% pleased with how Wax turned out, re: savanthood and Allomantic resonance."

The idea of resonance is that two powers, combined, meld kind of into one single power. This is a manifestation of the way Shards combine. Wax was intended as a savant of the two melded powers. But without consequences in his plot, I'm not confident that I'll continue in the same vein for future books.

Footnote: The first message comes from Brandon reaching out to Argent (Evgeni) on Facebook with a follow-up regarding this entry. This rest is from a Reddit PM exchange between Argent and Brandon.
Miscellaneous 2016 (Dec. 15, 2016)

I suppose my point is more that I think it's very likely that this was an intentional choice in the construction of the Radiant sysem and the usage of the Nahel bond to mitigate the negative effects of becoming a Savant on the body. Radiants are often "broken" people, which lines up with traditional Cosmere wisdom that if you have cracks in your Spiritweb already it's easier for the investiture to latch on, and for you to connect to it.

 

Honor knew the risks of letting surges go unchecked. While we don't have direct confirmation of this anywhere, I'm pretty sure we know that the destruction of Ashyn took at least decades to come to a full head and the sky to be burnt. There's no confirmation that this came from Savantism (Division is a hell of a drug), but even without confirmation on this considering the knowledge that a Shard has it is not unreasonable to assume that they would be aware of what Savantism is and how it affects the spiritual aspect of a person. The Honorblades were bound by their link to Honor, but they couldn't guarantee that in the same way with the Radiants. What better way to guarantee their restraint than by forcing a state similar to Savantism through the Nahel bond, grafting investiture in stages to their spiritweb with a surge of connection to the spiritual realm and thus investiture to weld the extra investiture even more firmly?

[Treamayne]

2 hours ago, Xanpheon said:

I want to clarify here I'm not saying that it is exactly the same as raw, uncontrolled Savantism of the kind Spook developed after flaring for a year. I do specify a "controlled" form of Savantism because that's exactly what the effects of the Spren bond seem to do, from the description of how we have of how Savantism and how the Radiant bond works.

<Snip>

Honor knew the risks of letting surges go unchecked. While we don't have direct confirmation of this anywhere, I'm pretty sure we know that the destruction of Ashyn took at least decades to come to a full head and the sky to be burnt. There's no confirmation that this came from Savantism (Division is a hell of a drug), but even without confirmation on this considering the knowledge that a Shard has it is not unreasonable to assume that they would be aware of what Savantism is and how it affects the spiritual aspect of a person. The Honorblades were bound by their link to Honor, but they couldn't guarantee that in the same way with the Radiants. What better way to guarantee their restraint than by forcing a state similar to Savantism through the Nahel bond, grafting investiture in stages to their spiritweb with a surge of connection to the spiritual realm and thus investiture to weld the extra investiture even more firmly?

Now I am just extra confused. you seem to be arguing two opposiing things at the same time as if they were synonymous. 

• Savantism = Warping of the Spiritweb due to investiture
• Radiant Nahel Bond = Reinforcing the Spiritweb through investiture released by Oaths and Connection

The only thing they have in common is a modification of the Spiritweb (which is true of almost every MoI). To be clear, I am not saying you are drawing improper conclusions - I am saying you are using the wrong terms to describe them (or I am hopelessly lost in what you mean at all). After all (WoB Extract):

Spoiler

Quote

a kind of uncontrolled version of a spren bond.

Kind means similar, not same. Uncontrolled is at least one primary difference. Therefore

• Spren Bond =/= Savantism

I think you are taking a partial analogy description too literally. What little we know about Savantism indicates that it cannot be invoked by four short bursts of connection-released investiture - even if a Radiant somehow said Oaths 2-5 all in the same day. 

[Xanpheon]

1 hour ago, Treamayne said:

Now I am just extra confused. you seem to be arguing two opposiing things at the same time as if they were synonymous. 

• Savantism = Warping of the Spiritweb due to investiture
• Radiant Nahel Bond = Reinforcing the Spiritweb through investiture released by Oaths and Connection

The only thing they have in common is a modification of the Spiritweb (which is true of almost every MoI). To be clear, I am not saying you are drawing improper conclusions - I am saying you are using the wrong terms to describe them (or I am hopelessly lost in what you mean at all). After all (WoB Extract):

  Hide contents

Kind means similar, not same. Uncontrolled is at least one primary difference. Therefore

• Spren Bond =/= Savantism

I think you are taking a partial analogy description too literally. What little we know about Savantism indicates that it cannot be invoked by four short bursts of connection-released investiture - even if a Radiant somehow said Oaths 2-5 all in the same day. 

I feel you are missing my point.

Savantism, yes, warps the Spiritweb via investiture. This makes the Spiritweb more able to handle investiture, letting it either channel the investiture more efficiently or by channelling more of it - see Spook's increased senses beyond even normal Tineyes. The Radiant bond also changes the Spiritweb, but it does so in a controlled fashion, using the Spren to regulate the changes to the Spiritweb.

This is the core of my argument. The Radiant Bond was created (as I said) specifically as a way to control the progression of Savantism while allowing for the growth of power of the user.

I'm not saying that they're the same thing. I am specifically saying that the Radiant Bond seems to be an attempt to mimic the beneficial effects of Savantism - namely, the increased ability to hold and use investiture - without needing to suffer the negative effects as well - namely, the physiological warping thanks to the changed Spiritweb. We see that Savantism is generally harmful, and that that is what Sanderson wants to keep in spirit, with his comments regarding Wax's Savantism being too consequence-free. The Radiant bond, by contrast, provides a similar power boost and level of control each time you step up an Ideal while not having the same negative effect. 

The Radiant bond does not protect the user from Savantism - and yet, Radiants are explicitly affected by it differently. The two are distinct, but how does this happen?

Maybe it's because the process of Swearing the ideals, grafting the Spren more tightly to the Spiritweb of the Radiant, and using the rush of Investiture as a catalyst to drive the grafting, is explicitly designed to change the Spiritweb in a predictable, controlled way that makes it so that modifications that would manifest as Savantism have already happened in a controlled context without the negative side effects.

I feel you're focusing too hard on thinking I said that Savantism and the Radiant bond are the same thing explicitly.

[Treamayne]

1 hour ago, Xanpheon said:

I'm not saying that they're the same thing. I am specifically saying that the Radiant Bond seems to be an attempt to mimic the beneficial effects of Savantism - namely, the increased ability to hold and use investiture - without needing to suffer the negative effects as well - namely, the physiological warping thanks to the changed Spiritweb. We see that Savantism is generally harmful, and that that is what Sanderson wants to keep in spirit, with his comments regarding Wax's Savantism being too consequence-free. The Radiant bond, by contrast, provides a similar power boost and level of control each time you step up an Ideal while not having the same negative effect. 

This is something we can agree on - though I would quibble "generally harmful" since it is more that "Savatism should have a downside - and some of those downsides can be extreme" Ref - HoA Epigraph to Ch 16:

Spoiler

They are called Allomantic savants. Men or women who flare their metals so long, and so hard, that the constant influx of Allomantic power transforms their very physiology.

In most cases, with most metals, the effects of this are very slight. Bronze burners, for instance, often become bronze savants without knowing it. Their range is expanded from burning the metal so long. 

 

1 hour ago, Xanpheon said:

I feel you're focusing too hard on thinking I said that Savantism and the Radiant bond are the same thing explicitly.

On 11/12/2025 at 9:08 AM, Xanpheon said:

3. Swearing an ideal gives the user and those nearby an extreme amount of Investiture that refills for a short while, empowering them and those around them to fight while functioning as a temporary font of Investiture similar to a Dalinar's perpendicularities.

Actually, what I was trying to say was that, to me, your first post sounded like you were saying that swearing oaths could cause a Radiant to become a Savant. Mostly because of that point 3.

1 hour ago, Xanpheon said:

The Radiant bond does not protect the user from Savantism - and yet, Radiants are explicitly affected by it differently. The two are distinct, but how does this happen?

That's what I was referencing - because the Nahel Bond reinforces Spiritwebs with Connection - they are resistant to the warping that causes Savantism. 

- - - Back to OP - - - 

On 11/12/2025 at 9:08 AM, Xanpheon said:

Did Honor design the Radiant ideals by using the Nahel bond as a way to achieve a controlled form of Savantism?

Honor did not "design" the Radiant Ideals or even the way that True Spren form Radiant Bonds. MoIs are a result of the complex interaction of the Shard's Intent, the Planet's Identity and the Cognitive Concenssus of the inhabitants. Honor didn't "design" surgebinding (just limited it). WoB (Mistborn Spoilers):

Spoiler

asmodeus

You've said before that a lot of the magics we see across the cosmere come from an interaction of Shards and their Investiture with the planets they Invest in. What does this mean practically? If Scadrial explodes tomorrow, will Hemalurgy stop working across the cosmere?

Brandon Sanderson

Hemalurgy wouldn't stop working, most likely, but it could. There are ways that you could make it stop working. I kind of mean that the Shards are an innate part of physics in the cosmere, and the magics that arise are an innate part of physics because of that. Like atium seeped out into the Pits of Hathsin, in the same way, these magics are just gonna leak out, and different places are going to affect them. You'll see Lightweaving happening in different places, and the way the Shard is interacting with the local... The way the Shard is is going to affect how Lightweaving is administrated in the various magics, but it's still gonna be there. Hemalurgy is kind of a similar thing to that. You will see Midnight Essence, you will see some of these recurring ideas popping up, and these are like natural parts of the physics, but they're influenced by the Shards on the local planets.

I don't know if that answer, that's gonna be a really fun one for them to transcribe into the Q&A thing, because I go around in circles on that question a ton. Put this part in when you do it.

Footnote: It was a really fun one.
YouTube Spoiler Stream 4 (June 16, 2022)

Quote

Questioner

I know at the end of Words of Radiance Syl shows she can turn into different forms, not just a sword. Why do they not... Or why do none of the other past Radiants really show that they have done that. Because normally in the flashbacks they are shown just being swords.

Brandon Sanderson

So the Shardblades came from spren seeing the Honorblades, which were created for mankind, and being like "I can do that". That is what they were imitating.

Questioner

So that's what they wanted...

Brandon Sanderson

No, that's how they see themselves and how they are seen. They can change into other things...

Questioner

They just never...

Brandon Sanderson

But when you let go of one it's going to become a sword again.

Questioner

Oh, I just meant in all the visions they were always portrayed as swords. Was that just for...

Brandon Sanderson

That's cultural, like this is... One thing that is interesting is you are going to see that the new Radiants don't have... I mean the Radiants you have seen almost all of them are after thousands of years of Radiants and Orders and you have certain things that you do.

So the writing reason was I didn't want to give away...

Questioner

That's what I was going to ask.

Brandon Sanderson

There is a writing reason behind it. I didn't want to do that and give too much away. I already worried that having Syl shift shapes as often as she did through the first book was going to be a big clue to people and I wanted to hold off on giving away too much.

Firefight Chicago signing (Feb. 20, 2015)

 

Ishar had much more involvement that Honor in manipulating the Rosharan Native Surgebinding that arose during the Desolations into the Radiant Orders (WaT Ch 59, WoR Epigraph):

Spoiler

"But as for Ishi’Elin, his was the part most important at their inception; he readily understood the implications of Surges being granted to men, and caused organization to be thrust upon them; as having too great power, he let it be known that he would destroy each and every one, unless they agreed to be bound by precepts and laws."

Sorry to be a bother - hope that helps.

Edited November 13, 2025 by Treamayne
SPAG

[Xanpheon]

9 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

Honor did not "design" the Radiant Ideals or even the way that True Spren form Radiant Bonds. MoIs are a result of the complex interaction of the Shard's Intent, the Planet's Identity and the Cognitive Concenssus of the inhabitants. Honor didn't "design" surgebinding (just limited it). WoB (Mistborn Spoilers):

  Hide contents

asmodeus

You've said before that a lot of the magics we see across the cosmere come from an interaction of Shards and their Investiture with the planets they Invest in. What does this mean practically? If Scadrial explodes tomorrow, will Hemalurgy stop working across the cosmere?

Brandon Sanderson

Hemalurgy wouldn't stop working, most likely, but it could. There are ways that you could make it stop working. I kind of mean that the Shards are an innate part of physics in the cosmere, and the magics that arise are an innate part of physics because of that. Like atium seeped out into the Pits of Hathsin, in the same way, these magics are just gonna leak out, and different places are going to affect them. You'll see Lightweaving happening in different places, and the way the Shard is interacting with the local... The way the Shard is is going to affect how Lightweaving is administrated in the various magics, but it's still gonna be there. Hemalurgy is kind of a similar thing to that. You will see Midnight Essence, you will see some of these recurring ideas popping up, and these are like natural parts of the physics, but they're influenced by the Shards on the local planets.

I don't know if that answer, that's gonna be a really fun one for them to transcribe into the Q&A thing, because I go around in circles on that question a ton. Put this part in when you do it.

Footnote: It was a really fun one.
YouTube Spoiler Stream 4 (June 16, 2022)

 

Ishar had much more involvement that Honor in manipulating the Rosharan Native Surgebinding that arose during the Desolations into the Radiant Orders (WaT Ch 59, WoR Epigraph)

I rather think you made my point for me there.

I never said Honor created surgebinding, just the Radiant Oaths - exactly in the way as you said. He was surprised by the bonds between between Spren and Man, yes, but as per WaT chapter 120 he also was the one (alongside Cultivation and Ishar) who created the system of Oaths that bound them. That's kind of the key to all of this - he didn't create the surges, I never said he did, but he did administer access and limit it. What is the Radiant Oath if not a way of imposing limitations?

The Epigraph you quote to me says much more that Ishar was responsible for the organization of the Knights Radiant as 10 military knightly orders - his ability to manipulate connection as the Bondsmith Herald definitely had a lot to do with the Oaths, but that doesn't preclude the system guarding access to the surges being designed to control the growth of Radiants in a way that can mirror the *effects* on the Spiritweb of Savantism.