Shardic Impact on MoIs

[Jult]

IotE gives us a somewhat unique opportunity because we get to see our second 'Autonomy-coded' MoI. Looking at both of these MoIs, they both seem to rely on a symbiotic relationship (Sand Mastery has its lichen-type organism and Aviar users have well... Aviars).

To me, that feels weird. Because I would view symbiosis as almost the opposite of Autonomy. But then I looked at some of the other MoIs we know. And well:

• Burning metals does not seem to Preserve much of anything. 
• Hoarding Breaths seems to be the best way to get ahead in Endowment's system.
• Hemalurgy is becoming less inherently violent as we learn more about it, and it is used to create Kandra and Koloss. As well as enhance its users.

The other known MoI-Shard combinations are a bit harder to do this for. But I think the above gets my point across for now. I've been having a rough time trying to articulate this idea, so I want to start with the easier examples.

The idea is: we know that a Shard's presence on a planet impacts local MoIs. But could it be that this impact is a polarization of the MoI against the Intent of the Shard? e.g. Autonomy shows up to a system with such a strong Intent of "survival of the fittest" that the native Investiture tries to create a balance with the opposite Intent of "working together". It would fit somewhat well with Brandon's recurring themes of pushes and pulls.

I'm not 100% sold on the idea myself, but I thought it might lead to some interesting discussion.

[Treamayne]

1 hour ago, Jult said:

IotE gives us a somewhat unique opportunity because we get to see our second 'Autonomy-coded' MoI. Looking at both of these MoIs, they both seem to rely on a symbiotic relationship (Sand Mastery has its lichen-type organism and Aviar users have well... Aviars).

To me, that feels weird. Because I would view symbiosis as almost the opposite of Autonomy.

It should feel weird - because the Shard involved is only one factor that determines an MoI. Not even necessarily the most important factor, either:

• Major Shardworld vs Minor Shardworld (if a Shard is in-residence, things change drastically)
• The Planetary Identity
• Concensual Reality of the Inhabitants as a whole (society's cognitive identity)
• The Shard(s) involved

For example: Scadrial's Planetary Identity is based on Mist (as seen by the form Shadesmar takes), Metal is the focus of Scadrial Consensual Reality (all three MoIs are "Metallic Arts" because of Society's Cognitive Identity) then the Shard's Intent comes in and "tweaks" those factors based on Shardic Intent:

• Preservation causes Allomancers to Preserve themselves by accessing an outside source of Investiture
• Hemalurgy "Ruins" both the power (Hemalurgic Decay) and the Practioner (Spiritweb Cracks - Sacrificial requirements to make Spikes)
• Feruchemy has elements of both (Preserving a trait for later use, that also suffers from Compression Decay when tapped faster than it was stored)

When you turn that analysis to Bavadin - whose apparent MO is to take something from other's and make it her own (how Autonomy expresses itself) - then you see the Luhel Bond was changed into Sand Mastery and, because it is a Major Shardworld, has acceess to much more investiture than Drominad does; while Starmarks don't have enough information to really analyze yet. FotS, being a Minor Shardworld, accesses investiture as a setting rather than a "power" - but uses a Bond for this access (as there is an Avatar present). 

WoBs:

Spoiler

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Questioner

What differentiates a minor Shardworld like First of the Sun?

Brandon Sanderson

The amount of Investiture, and whether there is actually a Shard in presence.

Questioner

I'm assuming there is not one there?

Brandon Sanderson

There is not one there.

Questioner

So it's like a Splintered one from something else?

Brandon Sanderson

No what you'll find is that the worlds were all created with a level of-- a little bit of sort of ambient magic. What you'll find in worlds like that is things like, Shadows for Silence and things like this, the magic, it's not necessarily "people with magic" it's you can interact with nature...

Questioner

So there is inherent Investiture...

Brandon Sanderson

There is inherent investiture in every world created but you are going to see-- You aren't going to find Mistborn on a world like that but what you might find is a way there are magic aspects to the setting. Spren could exist on a world like that but they would be like the minor spren, you wouldn't find Syl, but you would find something like lifespren.

Salt Lake City Comic-Con 2014 (Sept. 4, 2014)

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Kaimipono

Allomancy is fueled by Preservation's body? How exactly does that work? And how does that interact with atium—it's fueled by both gods' bodies?

Brandon Sanderson

The powers of Ruin and Preservation are Shards of Adonalsium, pieces of the power of creation itself. Allomancy, Hemalurgy, Feruchemy are manifestations of this power in mortal form, the ability to touch the powers of creation and use them. These metallic powers are how people's physical forms interpret the use of the Shard, though it's not the only possible way they could be interpreted or used. It's what the genetics and Realmatic interactions of Scadrial allow for, and has to do with the Spiritual, the Cognitive, and the Physical Realms.

Condensed 'essence' of these godly powers can act as super-fuel for Allomancy, Feruchemy, or really any of the powers. The form of that super fuel is important. In liquid form it's most potent, in gas form it's able to fuel Allomancy as if working as a metal. In physical form it is rigid and does one specific thing. In the case of atium, it allows sight into the future. In the case of concentrated Preservation, it gives one a permanent connection to the mists and the powers of creation. (I.e., it makes them an Allomancer.)

So when a person is burning metals, they aren't using Preservation's body as a fuel so to speak—though they are tapping into the powers of creation just slightly. When Vin burns the mists, however, she'd doing just that—using the essence of Preservation, the Shard of Adonalsium itself—to fuel Allomancy. Doing this, however, rips 'troughs' through her body. It's like forcing far too much pressure through a very small, fragile hose. That much power eventually vaporizes the corporeal host, which is acting as the block and forcing the power into a single type of conduit (Allomancy) and frees it to be more expansive.

Hero of Ages Q&A - Time Waster's Guide (Oct. 15, 2008)

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Chaos

Allomancy provides many very dramatic effects, which some have noted is not very much like Preservation. Could you walk me through how Allomancy is of Preservation, though it does dramatic, dynamic things?

Brandon Sanderson

One of the 'basics' of the magic in all of the worlds is that the energy of Shards can fuel all kinds of interactions, not just interactions based on their personality/role. I did this because otherwise, the Magics would all be extremely limited.

The 'role' of the Shard has to do with the WAY the magic is obtained, not what it can do. So, in Preservation's case, the magic is a gift--allowing a person to preserve their own strength, and rely upon the strength granted by the magic. While Hemalurgy has a huge cost, ending in net entropy.

/r/fantasy AMA 2011 (Aug. 31, 2011)

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mooglefrooglian

If metals shape the Investiture in Allomancy, causing a Steelpush or whatever, how is it that the mists can be used to perform the same feat? What is 'shaping' the inhaled mists into a Steelpush, if there's no metal "nozzle" to do so?

Brandon Sanderson

Consistently through the cosmere, once you have the power in hand and it has permeated you, will becomes your nozzle. This can be seen in Warbreaker, where the power has been distributed and inhabits the people. The nozzle idea is important for Magics that are drawing power externally, as it keeps the power from overwhelming and destroying you. (Which, basically, happened to Vin at the end of the Trilogy--she got consumed by the magic. She became something new, now, so it didn't KILL her. It destroyed what she was, transformed her into something else.)

So you see magics like on Sel and Scadrial where a specific nozzle is needed--as the power source is external, at least with Allomancy. Will and intent take a backseat, though still pop up on occasion. On Nalthis (and in a lesser way, Roshar) will and intent are more important, and what you are trying to do shapes the magic more directly.

A little direct manifestation in this is found in the subtle differences between Allomancy and Feruchemy. In Allomancy, when you enhance the senses, you just get a blast of power--and all senses are enhanced, whether you want them all or not. In Feruchemy, you can be more precise, and pick a specific sense to store. The power is internal here, and therefore more limited in how much you can draw--but you can also be more precise with its manipulation.

Note that Roshar Surgebinding is a special case, as the magical symbiosis there is stronger than it is on other worlds, as much of the magic involves bits of power who have become sapient.

uchoo786

How much crossover is there in use? Like if one "breathes" in the mists they can use it to power their allomancy. Could an Allomancer utilize stormlight to power his allomancy as well?

Brandon Sanderson

Most of the magics can be hacked together in one way or another, but some are easier to interchange than others.

/r/books AMA 2015 (May 25, 2015)

 

Hope that helps

Edited October 27, 2025 by Treamayne
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