A Theory on the Use And Storage of Investiture

[Clarkmon22 He/Him]

This is a thing that I've been thinking about for a while and finally had somewhat of a "eureka" moment about. 

So, in the Cosmere, we have seen and heard that the Shards have "infinite Investiture" but they don't have the capacity to use it. Now, this might be either obvious or really stupid, but I think that this is a good visualization of the reason that different entities have the amount of Investiture they do and why they can or cannot use said Investiture. 

If someone smarter than me could tell me if i'm right or wrong and maybe expand upon this that would be AWESOME.

Thing.pdf

[Trusk'our he/him]

4 minutes ago, Clarkmon22 said:

This is a thing that I've been thinking about for a while and finally had somewhat of a "eureka" moment about. 

So, in the Cosmere, we have seen and heard that the Shards have "infinite Investiture" but they don't have the capacity to use it. Now, this might be either obvious or really stupid, but I think that this is a good visualization of the reason that different entities have the amount of Investiture they do and why they can or cannot use said Investiture. 

If someone smarter than me could tell me if i'm right or wrong and maybe expand upon this that would be AWESOME.

Thing.pdf 16.12 kB · 1 download

I'm not sure I follow the diagram. May you please explain it?

[Argenti he/him]

1 hour ago, Trusk'our said:

I'm not sure I follow the diagram. May you please explain it?

Each circle is a source of investiture; lesser spren have a little bit, True spren have more, unmade have even more, and Shards/dawnshards have a direct tap to the spiritual realm (A circle that's large enough you can't see the curves). Any gaps in the circles represent that being's ability to use that investiture —truespren and lesser spren can't really use it to do anything. Unmade and shards can use it with some variability.  The bigger the gap, the more they can use. Double shards can use more than single shards.

 

[Clarkmon22 He/Him]

39 minutes ago, Argenti said:

Each circle is a source of investiture; lesser spren have a little bit, True spren have more, unmade have even more, and Shards/dawnshards have a direct tap to the spiritual realm (A circle that's large enough you can't see the curves). Any gaps in the circles represent that being's ability to use that investiture —truespren and lesser spren can't really use it to do anything. Unmade and shards can use it with some variability.  The bigger the gap, the more they can use. Double shards can use more than single shards.

 

thank you!!!! that's exactly what I meant. Also, the gaps are more unique in a way I can't really convey without description, as each Shard and unmade and such has its own ways to use Investiture. there is just a lot of stuff that I think could be added and anybody's help would be welcome. 

2 hours ago, Trusk'our said:

I'm not sure I follow the diagram. May you please explain it?

sorry I didn't respond, I have school... what Argenti said was basically it

[Through The Living Ash he/him]

5 hours ago, Clarkmon22 said:

This is a thing that I've been thinking about for a while and finally had somewhat of a "eureka" moment about. 

So, in the Cosmere, we have seen and heard that the Shards have "infinite Investiture" but they don't have the capacity to use it. Now, this might be either obvious or really stupid, but I think that this is a good visualization of the reason that different entities have the amount of Investiture they do and why they can or cannot use said Investiture. 

If someone smarter than me could tell me if i'm right or wrong and maybe expand upon this that would be AWESOME.

Thing.pdf 16.12 kB · 9 downloads

It looks -correct- to me, but I'm not entirely certain what specific idea you are trying to get across here or if this is just a visual aide that you are using. 

[Clarkmon22 He/Him]

12 minutes ago, Ashkaloda said:

It looks -correct- to me, but I'm not entirely certain what specific idea you are trying to get across here or if this is just a visual aide that you are using. 

yeah the terminology of my topic was sub par. more of a question if this is correct as an aid then anything else. 

[Trusk'our he/him]

3 hours ago, Clarkmon22 said:

thank you!!!! that's exactly what I meant. Also, the gaps are more unique in a way I can't really convey without description, as each Shard and unmade and such has its own ways to use Investiture. there is just a lot of stuff that I think could be added and anybody's help would be welcome. 

sorry I didn't respond, I have school... what Argenti said was basically it

Ah, thank you for the clarification.

4 hours ago, Argenti said:

Each circle is a source of investiture; lesser spren have a little bit, True spren have more, unmade have even more, and Shards/dawnshards have a direct tap to the spiritual realm (A circle that's large enough you can't see the curves). 

Not to take over @Nitpicking's job too much, but I believe any static Investiture is going to give you a little access to the SR, where it can act like lightbulb and let more energy through. Furthermore, nearly every system that utilizes Investiture also draws a tiny bit extra from the SR to facilitate transfer and stuff like that, which I think could include Spren of all varieties when they use their Investiture.

Spoiler

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/76-shadows-of-self-chicago-signing/#e6389

Alteroden

With Stormlight, the better the gem is cut, the less Stormlight it leaks, and the longer it holds its charge. If a gem was perfectly cut, on a molecular scale, would it leak Stormlight at all?

Brandon Sanderson

In a theoretical flawless gem, then no it would not.

Alteroden

Would it actually give off light?

Brandon Sanderson

[...] Theoretically no it would not, but it's not what you're thinking...

Alteroden

No no no, that’s not what I’m thinking, I figured that’s something totally different.

Brandon Sanderson

Well, actually, it probably would still give off light, because it's drawing out of the Spiritual Realm. So I’d say it still lights, but it doesn't leak. The leaking is not where the illumination is coming from. The illumination is coming from a direct... It's basically a light bulb screwed into the Spiritual Realm.

Spoiler

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/2-jordancon-2016/#e171

Questioner

So for the Old Magic, in this classification system of end-positive, end-neutral, and end-negative, where would that fall under?

Brandon Sanderson

So, almost every magic in the cosmere is end-positive, almost every magic is relying upon an external source of Investiture to power it. So that phrasing is mostly more relevant to Scadrial than anywhere else, because that concept is how I'm dealing with things like the laws of thermodynamics, and even what they call end-neutral is relying a little bit on the power of Investiture to facilitate. So even an end-neutral magic system as they define it on Scadrial is actually not end-neutral. What you get put in you get out, but the power is facilitating that transfer… So that phrasing is kind of a... Take that as a science on.. Scadrial that does not extrapolate well, and may not even be 100% accurate.

Moderator

That would have been a great thing to know before we did the cosmere magic panel. *laughter*

Brandon Sanderson

I look at it as, is an Investiture externally powering the magic, and if you look at Allomancy, yes it is. You are drawing that power out. Feruchemy, you are putting Investiture in from your own body, it's your energy transferring to Investiture, which is being stored, which you are then drawing out, and things like that. But that changing forms is facilitated by the magic. Whereas you're stealing stuff with-- So you could look, for instance at the magic on Nalthis, you could look at that one as being-- as kind of working as end-negative, meaning "I am taking it away from someone else", or end-positive depending on if you're the one receiving it or not. So again, it's a phrasing that can be useful as a tool but doesn't scale well to the other magics.

 

4 hours ago, Argenti said:

Any gaps in the circles represent that being's ability to use that investiture —truespren and lesser spren can't really use it to do anything. Unmade and shards can use it with some variability. 

Spren have been shown to be capable of using their own Investiture. It does often require the aid of a Listener or human, such as when Rlain teaches the humans of Urithiru to grow crops via Stormlight and music, but Syl shows us that she can use Adhesion to prank people independently from Kaladin's channeling of Stormlight.

This is pretty limited in most cases, but again I think is worth taking some note of.

 

@Clarkmon22, overall I'm not sure I'd say that each of these categories is necessarily more restricted to their access to their own Investiture than the others, more that the higher up you go the more Investiture you have to throw around and that more Investiture tends to bend the rules of what can normally be done- i.e. Awakening is normally restricted to Investing an organic object to give it a semblance of motion and senses, but get enough Breath and you can begin Awakening inorganic objects, using telepathy to Awaken, or Commanding other Awakened objects. More Investiture doesn't just add raw power, but it seems to have emergent properties.

Not only that, but the higher up you go the more of an autonomous mind the being generally has, which is important for using their power. This is actually the main limitation of Vessels in accessing their Shard's virtually infinite power- their mind is simply not as expansive as the power, and therefore cannot direct all of it.

Spoiler

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/256-oathbringer-london-signing/#e8605

Overlord Jebus

Is all Investiture in the cosmere associated with a Shard?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, well, okay. So this is a complicated one. *pauses* So, Investiture predates the Shattering of Adonalsium, all Investiture was from Adonalsium, all Investiture got assigned to one of the 16 Shards when Adonalsium was Shattered. Some of the Investiture was not on Yolen but location is irrelevant. So Investiture is related to Shards even on planets where none of the Shards are inhabiting. 

Overlord Jebus

Are they aware of that Investiture?

Brandon Sanderson

That's part of the whole seeing into the infinite, being beyond even the power of a Shard. So, technically you could make the argument that Harmony could feel the sense of Preservation on every world in the cosmere, right? Because the building blocks of all life and creation are these things.

Overlord Jebus

So the Shard of Preservation embodies all preservation in the cosmere?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes but he just can't do that, right? Like, he's not infinite. The Vessels are not, even if their minds are enormously expanded by holding a Shard, they are not infinite. The Connection is all there in the Spiritual Realm.

However, a Vessel seems to be capable of expanding what Investiture aligned with their Shard they can affect if they ever become aware of it (not sure if that means their total pool of accessible power is increased or if it just shuffles around what they could have used to the new chunk they discovered).

Spoiler

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/315-general-reddit-2018/#e9385

ReadAndFindOut

In 2014, Brandon said First of the Sun - the planet in Sixth of the Dusk - is a minor Shardworld, in that it does not have a Shard present (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/103-salt-lake-city-comic-con-2014/#e1010). However, we've now gotten a WoB saying that Patji - the Father island - IS a Shard (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/256-oathbringer-london-signing/#e8606). Patji was a Shard, but isn't during SotD? Or did we finally get confirmation on that elusive "Survival Shard"? What do you guys think?

Brandon Sanderson

I stand by them. Though, as always, quotes and WoBs at signings aren't always as deliberately thought out as I'd like them to be. Answering questions on the fly can be challenging, and my phrasing can be bad in retrospect.

But no Shard was in residence on First of the Sun during the events of that story. The Investiture on that planet is residue, normal Investiture from Adonalsium. Everything happening there could happen with or without a Shard present. Indeed, I would say that no Shard was ever "in residence" on First of the Sun.

The being called Patji still exists, and is a Shard of Adonalsium. Shards in the past have been interested in First of the Sun, and have meddled in small ways there. (Like they have on a lot of Shardworlds.)

Note that I might have been a little misleading in the first quote by bringing up Threnody, which is a real corner case in the cosmere because of uncommon events there.

That said, I'm sure that every story I write about a planet will bring up the quirks and unusual interactions of the magic there, because that's kind of what I do. (First of the Sun has its own oddities, as mentioned in Arcanum Unbounded.) Every planet is likely to end up as a corner case in some way, just like every person is distinctive in their own way, and never fully fits expectations.

I still consider one of the major dividing lines between "major" and "minor" Shardworlds (other than Shard residence) to be in strength of access to the magic, and control over it. I intend the minor Shardworlds to involve interactions with the magic as setting--coming back to spren, you could have a minor Shardworld with people who use, befriend, even bond spren. (Or the local equivalent--Seon, Aviar, etc.) But you'd never see power on the level of the city of Elantris, the actions of a Bondsmith, or even the broad power suite of a Mistborn.

But, as ever, the cosmere is a work in progress. The needs of telling a great story trump things I've said about what I'm planning. (I do try as much as I can to avoid having two texts contradict one another. And when they do, that's often a lapse on my part.)

Oversleep

Wait.

I'm confused.

So the Investiture on First of the Sun is associated with a Shard or is it residue, normal Investiture from Adonalsium?

Cause the question was a follow up (on this) where you revealed that all Investiture in Cosmere got assigned to a Shard even if it wasn't part of a Shard.

And then you said that the one on First of the Sun is directly associated with one of the Shards (and since later you revealed Patji to be an avatar of Autonomy (also, what are avatars and how do they work?)) we took it to mean that at one point Autonomy Invested in First of the Sun.

But now you're saying it didn't?

If there was no Shard ever on First of the Sun but Patji is a Shard/avatar of a Shard then where is Patji, actually?

Could you please clarify all that?

Brandon Sanderson

So the Investiture on First of the Sun is associated with a Shard or is it residue, normal Investiture from Adonalsium?"

The reason I have so much trouble answering these questions (and you'll see me struggling to get an answer in the 10-15 seconds I have when someone asks me in a signing line) is because this isn't an either or. Is this computer I'm using matter associated with Earth, the Big Bang, or such-and-such star that went supernova long ago? Well, it's probably all three.

When people ask, "What Shard is this Investiture associated with" it gets very complicated. Shards influence and tweak certain Investiture, giving it a kind of spin or magnetism, but all Investiture ever predates the Shattering--and in the cosmere matter, energy, and Investiture are one thing.

I always imagine Investiture having certain states, certain magnetisms if you will, associated with certain aspects of Adonalsium. So it's all "assigned" to a Shard--because it's always been associated with that Shard. To Investiture, Adonalsium's Shattering meant everything and nothing at the same time.

We generally mean the term "Invested" to mean a Shard has taken permanent residence in a location, a kind of base of operations--but at the same time, this is meaningless, since distance has no meaning on the Spiritual Realm, where most Shards are. So imprisonment of a Shard like Ruin or Odium is a crude expression--but the best we have.

Autonomy never "Invested" on First of the Sun. But even answering (as someone else asked) if they created an avatar without visiting is a difficult thing to explain--because even explaining how a Shard travels (when motion is irrelevant) is difficult to manage. It's a subject that I intend to be up for debate, discussion, and argument by in-world philosophers and arcanists.

You can see why I have such troubles explaining these things at signings--and why I fail when I try to, considering the time limitations and (often) fatigue limitations placed upon me. These are concepts I intend to spend entire, lengthy epic volumes explaining and exploring.

Let's say you were Autonomy, and you have--through expanding and exploring your understanding--found a gathering of Investiture that has always been there, you always knew about, but still didn't actually recognize until the moment you considered and explored it. (Because even though your power is infinite, accessing and using that infinity is beyond your reach.) Were you "Invested" there? No, no more than you're Invested on Roshar, where parts of what were Adonalsium still exist that are associated with you (in the very fabric of matter and existence.) But suddenly, you have a chance to tweak, influence, and do things that were always possible, but which you never could do because you knew, but didn't know, at the same time.

<further content redacted for lack of relevance>

I hope that I've been able to help and not just cause more confusion.

Edited October 22, 2025 by Trusk'our