Wit Continuity

[Mystic He/Him]

So, this post won’t make sense, but this is how my thought process went, hopefully this goes well.
Why did Wit lose his perfect pitch when odium destroyed his breaths? The danwshard grants enough investiture to give him that effect, regardless of breath. He had the dawnshard during the 10th day, and we know where wit was the entire time between then and when he lost his breaths. He first was with after the encounter, he went straight to Urithiru and helped Dalinar, and was covering for him later on. There was no time for him to have gained a dawn shard, meaning he had to have had it during his encounter with odium, so he shouldn’t have lost his perfect pitch. The only other situation would be if he gave the dawnshard to someone else for the encounter? And if so, who? Sigzil only knew about it at the end of WaT, so like, what happened there?

Sorry for the rambling, but this is how my mind works. Thoughts?

-A Windrunner with a Lightweaver’s complexity 

[CoderDrag0n8 He/They]

12 minutes ago, IHadAThought said:

 

So, this post won’t make sense, but this is how my thought process went, hopefully this goes well.
Why did Wit lose his perfect pitch when odium destroyed his breaths? The danwshard grants enough investiture to give him that effect, regardless of breath. He had the dawnshard during the 10th day, and we know where wit was the entire time between then and when he lost his breaths. He first was with after the encounter, he went straight to Urithiru and helped Dalinar, and was covering for him later on. There was no time for him to have gained a dawn shard, meaning he had to have had it during his encounter with odium, so he shouldn’t have lost his perfect pitch. The only other situation would be if he gave the dawnshard to someone else for the encounter? And if so, who? Sigzil only knew about it at the end of WaT, so like, what happened there?

Sorry for the rambling, but this is how my mind works. Thoughts?

-A Windrunner with a Lightweaver’s complexity 

Well, Hoid can't mold the dawnshard to force it to give him perfect pitch. That's something only (as we know) breaths can do.

[Treamayne]

11 minutes ago, IHadAThought said:

Why did Wit lose his perfect pitch when odium destroyed his breaths? The danwshard grants enough investiture to give him that effect, regardless of breath.

For the same reason that Vasher did not have Aura Recognition or Perfect Pitch in the Warbreaker Prologue - the method being used to Hide (Dawnshard for Hoid, Divine Breath for Vasher) means it is not available to facilitate Heightening effects while being hidden. 

Hope that helps

[Trusk'our he/him]

33 minutes ago, IHadAThought said:

So, this post won’t make sense, but this is how my thought process went, hopefully this goes well.
Why did Wit lose his perfect pitch when odium destroyed his breaths? The danwshard grants enough investiture to give him that effect, regardless of breath. He had the dawnshard during the 10th day, and we know where wit was the entire time between then and when he lost his breaths. He first was with after the encounter, he went straight to Urithiru and helped Dalinar, and was covering for him later on. There was no time for him to have gained a dawn shard, meaning he had to have had it during his encounter with odium, so he shouldn’t have lost his perfect pitch. The only other situation would be if he gave the dawnshard to someone else for the encounter? And if so, who? Sigzil only knew about it at the end of WaT, so like, what happened there?

Sorry for the rambling, but this is how my mind works. Thoughts?

-A Windrunner with a Lightweaver’s complexity 

It is my own theory that not all Investiture will grant Heightenings in the same fashion, even if held in abundance.

While we do see Rysn possessing Heightenings-like abilities from holding the Dawnshard of Change, Sigzil doesn't show any such effects when holding the Dawnshard of Exist. However, as a Dawnsliver the residual Investiture does grant him other abilities, such as enhanced strength and healing.

Basically, I suspect Hoid's Dawnshard doesn't contribute to his Heightenings, but other factors such as his healing abilities.

 

Good catch on that by the way, I hadn't even thought of this before, but it's a good question.

[Mystic He/Him]

51 minutes ago, CoderDrag0n8 said:

Well, Hoid can't mold the dawnshard to force it to give him perfect pitch. That's something only (as we know) breaths can do.

My confusion is that it seems to give Rysn that ability, so it’s likely that others can as well

51 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

For the same reason that Vasher did not have Aura Recognition or Perfect Pitch in the Warbreaker Prologue - the method being used to Hide (Dawnshard for Hoid, Divine Breath for Vasher) means it is not available to facilitate Heightening effects while being hidden. 

Hope that helps

I don’t believe this is the case because Odium would have known he had it when he was searching his investiture, and so the last chapters of WoT wouldn’t make sense then

[Treamayne]

28 minutes ago, IHadAThought said:

I don’t believe this is the case because Odium would have known he had it when he was searching his investiture, and so the last chapters of WoT wouldn’t make sense then

TOdium was very new to his Shard, unlikely to know Dawnshards were a thing and wasn't looking for Hidden Investiture - he was looking for something he could do that would not count as "harm" and was, therefore, not a breach of his Oath. As both Kelsier and Vin show in HoA/M:SH - being a Shard's Vessel does not mean you know everything - especially if you don't know you need to consider the information to learn the information. WoB:

Spoiler

Questioner

So I'm wondering, how omniscient are the Vessels?

Brandon Sanderson

This is a difficult question to answer because they don't know everything, but they could theoretically. And so, the actual Vessel needs to apply the power and learn things. And they don't know the future exactly. Particularly, you'll notice some hints of this in Oathbringer. There are certain things that really foul with their ability to see the future. It's whenever we kind of get the equivalence of an atium shadow right? Reflection that reflects that someone sees the future, and then suddenly you end up with this kind of difficult chain to follow.

Questioner

Can you tell me who might be the most all-knowing out of all of them?

Brandon Sanderson

I will say the older they are the more they generally know.

Questioner

So probably not Harmony then?

Brandon Sanderson

Probably not Harmony.

The Great American Read: Other Worlds with Brandon Sanderson (Oct. 25, 2018)

Taravangian was a very young Vessel in that scene. . . 

Edited October 20, 2025 by Treamayne
SPAG

[Mystic He/Him]

2 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

TOdium was very new to his Shard, unlikely to know Dawnshards were a thing and wasn't looking for Hidden Investiture - he was looking for something he could do that would not count as "harm" and was, therefore, not a breach of his Oath. As both Kelsier and Vin Show in HoA/M:SH - being a Shard's Vessel does not mean you know everything - especially if you don't know you need to consider the information to learn the information. WoB:

  Hide contents

Questioner

So I'm wondering, how omniscient are the Vessels?

Brandon Sanderson

This is a difficult question to answer because they don't know everything, but they could theoretically. And so, the actual Vessel needs to apply the power and learn things. And they don't know the future exactly. Particularly, you'll notice some hints of this in Oathbringer. There are certain things that really foul with their ability to see the future. It's whenever we kind of get the equivalence of an atium shadow right? Reflection that reflects that someone sees the future, and then suddenly you end up with this kind of difficult chain to follow.

Questioner

Can you tell me who might be the most all-knowing out of all of them?

Brandon Sanderson

I will say the older they are the more they generally know.

Questioner

So probably not Harmony then?

Brandon Sanderson

Probably not Harmony.

The Great American Read: Other Worlds with Brandon Sanderson (Oct. 25, 2018)

Taravangian was a very young Vessel in that scene. . . 

So how did he know Wit had a dawnshard 10 days later then? Did he somehow gain knowledge that let him know? I don’t believe we have anything on him suddenly realizing how to detect dawnshards or anything.

[Treamayne]

4 minutes ago, IHadAThought said:

So how did he know Wit had a dawnshard 10 days later then? Did he somehow gain knowledge that let him know? I don’t believe we have anything on him suddenly realizing how to detect dawnshards or anything.

Retribution did not know about the Dawnshard. . . He simply would have discovered it by trying to Kill Wit and the incident with Rysn would have uncovered a power to Threaten Odium/Retribution. 
WaT Spoilers:

Spoiler

WaT Interlude 15:

Quote

A sound like a gong in her head was followed by a perspective of … vastness. Time stretching in all directions, forward, back, even to the sides. And at the center of it, that man, with white hair flaring up from his head and light coming from his core.

He snapped his eyes open and spoke.

“NO.”

The vibrating ceased. The sound went out. The light faded. Rysn was left on the floor, Chiri-Chiri climbing onto her back and crying out, trembling. Two Sleepless in piles.

“I will ensure that we never meet again,” the man said, then restored his illusion of Dalinar and left.

WaT Ch 146:

Quote

“Wha … what?” Sigzil asked. “Why are—”

“Listen to me,” Wit hissed. “In a frighteningly short amount of time, the power that Odium holds is going to identify me as the only thing on the planet that can harm him. The power bears a grudge, even though its vessel has changed. It’s going to vaporize me.”

<snip>

“When Odium arrives,” Wit said, “his presence coalescing here will let me do something odd.” He held up a device made of several gears and what appeared to be glowing light—not trapped in a gemstone, but in an hourglass. “I’m sorry for how that will feel, but the Dawnshard should keep you alive. Get off this planet as soon as you can. Keep it away from him, Sig. Our only advantage is that he doesn’t know it’s here. Unfortunately, if he kills me while I hold it, he’ll discover the truth. You he’ll ignore. Hopefully.” He hesitated. “I’ll find you. I promise.”

Before Sigzil could ask for an explanation, he felt his soul tremble. The individual pieces of himself aligning as a force overlapped him. A vast, strange power, greater than a storm, or even a world, but capable of fitting inside a human heart.

It was ancient. Wonderful and terrible. It bore a single all-powerful directive, which thrummed through Sigzil.

Exist.

 

Hope that helps.

[Mystic He/Him]

Thank you