Getting around the Identity lock on the average metal mind

[TacoBellChoutaMeal]

Alright, I've got a doozy for you. It probably won't work, but I'm gonna try anyways

 

1. The Set have done experiments with Hemalurgy that leads them to believe that they can key any allomantic or feruchemical ability to a spike made out of 20 alive people. 

2. Me and You are both Ferrings of the same metal. Your favorite metal. Knowing this forum, it's probably Tin. 

3. If I harvest investiture from 20 souls, can I key that spike to your Identity, then spike myself? Is that possible? Duralumin steals Connection/Identity, so this leads me to believe that Identity is something that can in-fact be keyed for. 

4. If I was spiked with your Identity, could you and I pass the same metal mind back and forth without either of us having to die and neither of us having to spend an abhorrent amount of money on an unkeyed metalmind? 

I know we technically don't know any of this for certain, but do you think this would be possible?

[Treamayne]

3 hours ago, TacoBellChoutaMeal said:

Alright, I've got a doozy for you. It probably won't work, but I'm gonna try anyways

Unlikely, based on WoBs:

Spoiler

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<edited for length and relevance>

WeiryWriter (in response to the first answer)

If the spike granting Feruchemy were to be reforged/split into two distinct spikes which are then implanted into two different people, could those two people "share" a metalmind (as in actually be able to tap something the other stored and vice versa?).

Brandon Sanderson

It's complicated, but no.

There would be too much of the other person mixed in. Both could use the metalminds of the person the Feruchemy was stolen from, but when they made their own, their own Identity would "muddy" the creation.

Worldbuilders AMA (Dec. 7, 2015)

Identity isn't just what is in the spike, it's the Venn intersection of the Spike's Identity and the hemalurgists identity. In your example, the Identity donor would lack the fragments of your identity to use any metalminds you made. If the spike donor survived, any new metal minds thay make woudl not laonger match the identity you stole because their new Identity is incomplete and missing pieces (you stole them). 

Quote

Questioner (paraphrased)

If two people are identical twins, and one is a Mistborn, will the second be Mistborn?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

No. They could have different Spiritual DNA.

Ancient Lunch Q&A (July 31, 2010)

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Questioner (paraphrased)

Would Allomancers born twins or triplets have the same metals?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

It is more likely, but not 100%.

Footnote: Brandon later mentioned that the question was not specific on identical twins, triplets, etc. and RAFOed further prodding.
American Fork High School Signing (Dec. 12, 2019)

 

Hope that helps

Edited October 8, 2025 by Treamayne
SPAG

[First of the Tide He/him]

This is an interesting idea, but I see a few things wrong:

1. My favorite metal is nicrosil, thank you very much

2. You said "any allomantic or feruchemical ability". It is important to note that this doesn't necessarily encompass identity.

3. The way that the Set talks abt that, it doesn't seem like they get to pick whose allomantic ability, just that they can emulate the same idea of 'doing tin allomancy'. This leads me to believe that you would get some identity, but you couldn't choose which.

However, I don't think Treamayne's quotes necessarily contradict your idea.

The first WoB seems to be about hemalurgy's inherent identity-shifting thing, not identity spikes themselves. The 2nd WoB is iffy cuz Identity encompasses Spiritual DNA. And I dont really see the point of the third tbh. (No Hate, just thinking outloud)

[Treamayne]

8 hours ago, First of the Tide said:

However, I don't think Treamayne's quotes necessarily contradict your idea.

Which is why I only said "unlikely."
Messing with Identity is tricky and dangerous. . . WoB

Spoiler

sebarial

Would a Feruchemist actively storing Identity be more susceptible to Forgery? Would more outlandish changes be able to take effect? Thanks for your time, and have a wonderful day.

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, if you store Identity, it makes you susceptible to ALL KINDS of things in the Cosmere. Forgery would be on the short list.

<Edited for Length and Relevance> 

/r/books AMA 2015 (July 14, 2015)

Hope that helps

[Duxredux he/him]

Taking the question literally, nonlethally harvesting from  20 souls invalidates the last clause of "without having to spend a lot of money" because... you just can't ram spikes through people and expect to get away with it without significant time and investment for that scale of kidnapping or a huge monetary compensation to make them willing to sit through that. Beyond that you would never get me to buy into this scheme for at least a dozen reasons starting with why I don't hand out my bank account password even though hypothetically you could make deposits and not just withdrawals.

On 10/8/2025 at 12:35 PM, TacoBellChoutaMeal said:

3. If I harvest investiture from 20 souls, can I key that spike to your Identity, then spike myself? Is that possible? Duralumin steals Connection/Identity, so this leads me to believe that Identity is something that can in-fact be keyed for. 

4. If I was spiked with your Identity, could you and I pass the same metal mind back and forth without either of us having to die and neither of us having to spend an abhorrent amount of money on an unkeyed metalmind? 

The bolded and underlined sections are the big unknown in this timeshare question. How? From what I can tell, we don't have anything from Scadrial that would let us just key to someone's Identity without having that Identity available in the first place. You're probably better off using Duralumin spikes  and non-lethally harvesting from yourself, have your buddy do the same then swap spikes.

 

Let's take a step back and look at the full Cosmere and look at when people or objects have had Investiture forcibly drained when you would expect Identity to potentially be a factor.

Spoiler

RoW - Ishar Connecting the Windrunners to the planet and having their Light drain out of them. Spiritual Adhesion with enough juice.

Nightblood forming a bond with his wielder - also a case of having huge amounts of power.

WaT - Shallan absorbing Drehy's Lashing when flying through Shadesmar. By simply thinking "be Drehy" with her particular brand of mental health issues, her drawings which tap into the Spiritual Realm, and her weird state of being partially more in the CR with her double bond.

TSM - basically all of Nomad's experimentation with the cinderhearts and Elegy - not just his Dawnshard capabilities but the concepts of Commands and harvesting.

 

So... seems like forcibly creating a Connection, just having the raw power, or whatever Shallan did with her weird state is your best bet. I suspect Shallan couldn't have drawn from Drehy's Lashing if she hadn't sketched him and had some sort of SR link in addition to her mental condition.

[Treamayne]

1 hour ago, Duxredux said:

Let's take a step back and look at the full Cosmere and look at when people or objects have had Investiture forcibly drained when you would expect Identity to potentially be a factor.

  Hide contents

WaT - Shallan absorbing Drehy's Lashing when flying through Shadesmar. By simply thinking "be Drehy" with her particular brand of mental health issues, her drawings which tap into the Spiritual Realm, and her weird state of being partially more in the CR with her double bond.

Please note - the excerpted example was likely possible due to Connection. OB Ch 89 (and TES Day 30):

Spoiler

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Living souls bobbed around, a swarm of them entering the Oathgate control chamber. One brushed Shallan. Drehy the bridgeman. For a brief moment she felt what it was like to be him. Worried for Kaladin. Panicked that nobody was in charge, that he would have to take command. He wasn’t a commander. You couldn’t be a rebel if you were in charge. He liked being told what to do—that way he could find a method to do it with style.

Drehy’s worries caused her own to bubble up.

Shallan already had Connection and familiarity with Drehy's Identity (I use Familiarity in the sense explained in TES:

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“But this is completely implausible! I don’t have a brother.”

“Ah. Well, let me see if I can explain,” she said, settling back. “I am rewriting your soul to match that of the emperor—just as I rewrote the history of that window to include new stained glass. In both cases, it works because of familiarity. The window frame knows what a stained-glass window should look like. It once had stained glass in it. Even though the new window is not the same as the one it once held, the seal works because the general concept of a stained-glass window has been fulfilled.

“You spent a great deal of time around the emperor. Your soul is familiar with his, much as the window frame is familiar with the stained glass. This is why I have to try out the seals on someone like you, and not on myself. When I stamp you, it’s like … it’s like I’m presenting to your soul a piece of something it should know. It only works if the piece is very small, but so long as it is—and so long as the soul considers the piece a familiar part of Ashravan, as I’ve indicated—the stamp will take for a brief time before being rejected.”

Gaotona regarded her with bemusement.

 

Hope that helps