Connecting through Cyberspace: Duralumin in the Digital Age

[Kobold King he/him]

First, off, allow me to apologize if this topic has come up before. My searching came up with nothing, but it's possible I simply didn't use the right terms.

 

Since this morning I've been pondering an interesting question about the nature of Feruchemical duralumin. We know that a duralumin Ferring is called a Connector, and that Connectors are capable of storing and tapping their ability to connect with other people.

 

It's easy to picture a Connector Ferring (we'll call him Bill) in action. Bill the Connector spends a few days being lonely and ignored by his friends, only to suddenly become the life of a party when he taps his metalminds. But the question I found myself facing is as follows: what happen when we fast forward a hundred years and send Bill the Connector into the digital age?

 

Bill certainly has a way with people in the flesh, but what happens when he interacts with people through a digital medium? Imagine the following scenario: Bill becomes a social recluse, storing his sense of Spiritual connection when he's navigating through his real life, only to tap into his reserves whenever he logs on to his favorite forum. How does the ability to alter Spiritual connection apply to the limited interactive capabilities of cyberspace?

 

When other users read Bill's posts, do they find themselves mysteriously agreeing with what he says, laughing profusely at even the lamest jokes? Is a Connector's ability strong enough to affect people thousands of miles away, whom he has never met?

 

Or am I looking at things the wrong way--perhaps duralumin Feruchemy is Internal, not External. When Bill taps his metalminds and talks to his best friend, is his best friend's Spiritual make-up altered, causing him to find Bill's company more enjoyable? Or does Bill only affect his own Spiritual make-up, making himself more likely to say things his friend will enjoy?

 

I find that the question "Can Bill gain more upvotes through Feruchemy" requires more information than I have access to. My question to the forum as a whole is "Do we as a community have enough information on how Connecting works to predict its effects?"

 

And before you upvote or downvote this post, let me assure you that I left my duraluminminds at home today. Judge this post on the quality of its content or lack thereof.

[Incheoul]

Interesting idea Bill...

[Lord Tavash Shar]

This ties into the question of whether or not our interactions in virtual worlds can be qualified as real/meaningful relationships. Is the digital age making us more or less tied into each other?

 

Would you qualify these posts on a message board or forum as real conversations between people? If not what are they? How do they fit into human interaction?

[Pathfinder]

So these are my thoughts on the matter, using my own personal form of logic and not based on any evidence in book or WoB to support it. Just my own two cents. I think the effect of the writing would be determined on whether the author was storing or tapping in that moment. We all love reading Brandon's books. Though some have never met him at all, I would say the affect his books have had on our lives in a "spiritual" sense is definite. So going on that premise, a individual's written works, whether digital or physical, would be affected by being a connector. Now this for me would lead to the next question, how would that function? If I can say the exact same thing to someone while storing and they feel no connection to me, or while tapping and they feel a huge connection to me, then I think the same would apply to what I have written. I do not think that anytime someone reads something I have at one point written while tapping connection would have them love it all the time, otherwise in a way anything I write while tapping becomes a metal mind of its own. I think anything I have produced, am producing, have done, am doing, is affected in that moment on whether I am tapping or storing. Did my long ramble make any sense?

 

edit: ok just in case, I came up with an example. If I wrote something back in 2009 while tapping, but you do not read it till 2014 when I am storing, you will feel no spiritual connection to me. If I wrote something in 2009 while storing, but you do not read it till 2014 when I am tapping, you will feel a ton of spiritual connection to me. 

Edited November 5, 2014 by Pathfinder

[Lord Tavash Shar]

Yes and no pathfinder.

 

So these are my thoughts on the matter, using my own personal form of logic and not based on any evidence in book or WoB to support it. Just my own two cents. I think the effect of the writing would be determined on whether the author was storing or tapping in that moment. We all love reading Brandon's books. Though some have never met him at all, I would say the affect his books have had on our lives in a "spiritual" sense is definite. So going on that premise, a individual's written works, whether digital or physical, would be affected by being a connector. Now this for me would lead to the next question, how would that function? If I can say the exact same thing to someone while storing and they feel no connection to me, or while tapping and they feel a huge connection to me, then I think the same would apply to what I have written. I do not think that anytime someone reads something I have written while tapping connection would have them love it, otherwise in a way anything I write while tapping becomes a metal mind of its own. I think anything I have produced, am producing, have done, am doing, is affected in that moment on whether I am tapping or storing. Did my long ramble make any sense?

 

The thing is that right now all we know is how the storing and tapping works with people and in front of them. The question of whether or not the content of a work of writing would change by storing/tapping is going to be part of the answer here.

But really we are so far down the Meta Physics whole with this idea that we are going to need 5 pounds of flax.

[Pathfinder]

Yes and no pathfinder.

 

 

The thing is that right now all we know is how the storing and tapping works with people and in front of them. The question of whether or not the content of a work of writing would change by storing/tapping is going to be part of the answer here.

But really we are so far down the Meta Physics whole with this idea that we are going to need 5 pounds of flax.

I am confused by what the yes and no is in reference to? Yes I made sense but no the written aspect would not be affected? If so could you provide your logic in that line of reasoning? You asked a lot of good questions, that I attempted respond to, and then just said no. So please elaborate?

 

also technically we do not even know how it works with people in front of them, since we have never seen it been done at all, except in reference to an entry that:

 

"Connecter Ferrings can store spritual connection in a duralium metalmind, reducing other people's awareness and friendship with them and can tap it in order to speedily form trust relationships with others".

 

Doesn't give any examples of in person, not in person, on the phone, via email, right in front, or shouting from far away, seeing a person vs hearing them, vs smelling them, vs touching them. If a blind person talks does that count? If a deaf person sees the lips move does that count? Does distance matter? 

 

So my logic was just to extrapolate on that definition. It is clear we know very little about the ability. 

Edited November 5, 2014 by Pathfinder

[Lord Tavash Shar]

This whole thing requires Communication in text at range to be a means of connection as much as talking to someone in close proximity to you talking.

 

But can they be counted as the same? Or are they less? Are they more? Are they there own thing? and if so does it count as the type of connection that can be effected by personal connection?

 

Feruchemy is an internal push on your ability to connect with others. But what does that really mean? Does your posture change? Your voice carry further? Does your mind speed up to articulate your opinions with greater gusto?

Or does it expand nothing physical but your cognitive "shadow" for lack of a better word in shademer? Inflating it the same was your muscles inflate when tapping strength?

We do not know what you're really storing when you store connection, Brandon has RAFO a lot of questions on this subject so I'm not sure we can come up with a definitive answer.

[Pathfinder]

This whole thing requires Communication in text at range to be a means of connection as much as talking to someone in close proximity to you talking.

 

But can they be counted as the same? Or are they less? Are they more? Are they there own thing? and if so does it count as the type of connection that can be effected by personal connection?

 

Feruchemy is an internal push on your ability to connect with others. But what does that really mean? Does your posture change? Your voice carry further? Does your mind speed up to articulate your opinions with greater gusto?

Or does it expand nothing physical but your cognitive "shadow" for lack of a better word in shademer? Inflating it the same was your muscles inflate when tapping strength?

We do not know what you're really storing when you store connection, Brandon has RAFO a lot of questions on this subject so I'm not sure we can come up with a definitive answer.

I do not believe the point of the original post WAS to come up with a definitive answer. I mean correct me if I am wrong KoboldKing, but I think we all knew from the get go how little information we have on the subject. I was given the impression that this was a fun mental exercise to contemplate based on what we DO know, on whether or not it would affect digital communication, and if we reasoned it did, then how. 

 

So I posit the emotional/spiritual affect that reading a speech by someone, or a book does create a connection regardless if you meet them or not, and regardless if you were present when they said it or not. Do you agree given the information we have that it could function this way? Given the information we have do you think it works a different way? If you think it works a different way, why? What logic based on the information we have supports your theory? At least that was my impression was the point of this post. If I am incorrect in this assumption, then I apologize

Edited November 5, 2014 by Pathfinder

[king of nowhere]

Or does Bill only affect his own Spiritual make-up, making himself more likely to say things his friend will enjoy?

For all the other metals known, feruchemy is purely internal. it only changes yourself. So I'd say that's the most likely scenario. Of course, it is possible that the spiritual metals will work in a different way.

 

I find that the question "Can Bill gain more upvotes through Feruchemy" requires more information than I have access to. My question to the forum as a whole is "Do we as a community have enough information on how Connecting works to predict its effects?"

No, we definitely do not have enough information about it. we don't know what ccauses you to establish better connections.

Also, I upvoted you for the sole idea of using fduraluminium to get more upvotes. that would fit well both within the "you know you're a sanderfan when" and the "most useless uses for totally useful powers"

[Cstryon he/him]

I think if Feruchemical duralumin as..well the Wheel of Time, specifically gray men and Taveren (spelling?). If I'm storing enough, I just become indistinct. I'm physically there not invisible, but I'll be hard to notice or pay attention to. When I'm tapping, I'll get everyone's attention. I might not twist fate, but people will be more inclined to listen, and maybe swayed? And of course all the gray areas in between.

[Shaggai]

I think if Feruchemical duralumin as..well the Wheel of Time, specifically gray men and Taveren (spelling?). If I'm storing enough, I just become indistinct. I'm physically there not invisible, but I'll be hard to notice or pay attention to. When I'm tapping, I'll get everyone's attention. I might not twist fate, but people will be more inclined to listen, and maybe swayed? And of course all the gray areas in between.

Feruchemical duralumin allows for the quick formation of trust relationships. It's not quite the same. People will trust you significantly more when tapping, and significantly less when storing. Come to think of it, a Duralumin Ferring (or even Compounder, if we want to get really powerful) would make a deadly assassin or serial killer. You would just tap it and have your target trust you enough to follow you somewhere secluded, then store and slit their throat. Now that I think of it, Feruchemical duralumin is probably the best Feruchemical power to have.

[Oudeis he/him]

...specifically for assassins, yes.

 

Also, it says easier to form trust relationships. Presumably, it's no more 'mind-control' than Soothing is (koloss being 'bated). While you'd have an easier time getting someone to trust you, it's probably not mental domination.

[Asperity he/him]

Feruchemical duralumin allows for the quick formation of trust relationships. It's not quite the same. People will trust you significantly more when tapping, and significantly less when storing. Come to think of it, a Duralumin Ferring (or even Compounder, if we want to get really powerful) would make a deadly assassin or serial killer. You would just tap it and have your target trust you enough to follow you somewhere secluded, then store and slit their throat. Now that I think of it, Feruchemical duralumin is probably the best Feruchemical power to have.

So it is basically charisma? Interesting. That would certainly be powerful and extremely tough to balance.

[Pathfinder]

So random example, because I am curious to see how effective people could see this ability playing out by stacking it against fduralium. Let us say there is person A, who is a high profile individual, with a lot of resources, and knows a hit has been put out on them. They hole up in their building, surrounded by guard at every entrance. person A knows there will be an assassin who will try to kill him. Could person B tapping fduralium make everyone trust him or her enough, being a complete stranger, when they are all, including person A, expecting an unknown person to come and kill person A? I am rereading mistborn for the hell of it, and there was the part where Vin knew her emotions were being pulled on, because the logical part of her mind was clearly thinking she should be scared/worried about leaving, but she feels perfectly serene, so was able to break out of it. So I am wondering if person A clearly knows people are out to kill him, no matter how much he could potentially trust someone, could the fact that his life is in danger and he doesn't know this person, would result in his mind going "um something is wrong here"

[Robot Aztec]

duralum nigerian prince says ''i have 200 atium beads but koloss have me inpironsed plz send me bank account detail so i can sned you atium!''

[happyman he/him]

So it is basically charisma? Interesting. That would certainly be powerful and extremely tough to balanc

 

My guess is that the connection is balanced by going both ways.  Yes, the person feels like he knows you intimately, has been to hell and back with you, would do anything for you.  Problem is, you feel the same way!  If you ran in to somebody like that, could you talk them into walking to their death?

[Titan Arum]

Come to think of it, a Duralumin Ferring (or even Compounder, if we want to get really powerful) would make a deadly assassin or serial killer. 

I would argue that this would be better suited for a Spy. You could infiltrate any group to gather intelligence or get people to do things that you want them to do. Which leads me to speculate that...Hoid is a Duralumin Ferring! He's really good at getting people across the Cosmere to trust him and give him information so that he can be Super-Hoid. 

 

Another round of speculation:

What if the Ones Above in Sixth of the Dusk are Duralumin Ferrings, especially as some have speculated that they're from Scadrial? They can manipulate the people of First of the Sun to trust them, as they seem to be doing with those they've already contacted. The members of the NITC seem willing to do whatever it takes to be able to trade with the Ones Above. Even potentially destroy/hand over a major source of investiture. Is it because the Ones Above are all Connectors?

Edited November 10, 2014 by Titan Arum

[Shaggai]

My guess is that the connection is balanced by going both ways.  Yes, the person feels like he knows you intimately, has been to hell and back with you, would do anything for you.  Problem is, you feel the same way!  If you ran in to somebody like that, could you talk them into walking to their death?

That's why you start storing before you kill them. 

 

...specifically for assassins, yes.

 

Also, it says easier to form trust relationships. Presumably, it's no more 'mind-control' than Soothing is (koloss being 'bated). While you'd have an easier time getting someone to trust you, it's probably not mental domination.

Well, if you tap it hard enough, you can probably do it just by looking at them. Perhaps you would have to be a Compounder.

[Oudeis he/him]

Considering the first part, since you seem to agree that duralumin works both ways, can you really see yourself tapping enough to force someone to trust you when they know you're prolly gonna kill them, and imagine that you, feeling just as strongly towards them, would continue with a plan you know will end in their death?

[Pathfinder]

Considering the first part, since you seem to agree that duralumin works both ways, can you really see yourself tapping enough to force someone to trust you when they know you're prolly gonna kill them, and imagine that you, feeling just as strongly towards them, would continue with a plan you know will end in their death?

That is an excellent point. All that is being changed is the connection, not the knowledge. In fact I could see that resulting in the person pulling a sorta werewolf syndrome of "If you stay near me you will die! you must run from me before i run out of what i've stored!" 

[skaa he/him]

Similarly, we can ask whether a Spinner (Chromium Feruchemist) can make fortunate things happen from a distance. Like, could a Spinner affect the result of a lottery that is being drawn several miles away just by tapping his Chromiummind?

 

I'd like to think that the strength of Duralumin and Chromium Feruchemy are based on both the distance of the target and the amount tapped at a given instance. I can't think of an alternative solution that makes sense. Being able to affect anyone in the Cosmere would be OP, but being limited to a fixed radius seems arbitrary. I think a Duralumin Compounder should be able to connect to more people than someone merely tapping his Duraluminmind, but certainly not to everyone in the whole world.

[happyman he/him]

Considering the first part, since you seem to agree that duralumin works both ways, can you really see yourself tapping enough to force someone to trust you when they know you're prolly gonna kill them, and imagine that you, feeling just as strongly towards them, would continue with a plan you know will end in their death?

 

Well said, Outis.  That was the true kernel of my point.  If nothing else, it would make duralumin assassins very unreliable.  That's balance right there.

[Pathfinder]

Similarly, we can ask whether a Spinner (Chromium Feruchemist) can make fortunate things happen from a distance. Like, could a Spinner affect the result of a lottery that is being drawn several miles away just by tapping his Chromiummind?

 

I'd like to think that the strength of Duralumin and Chromium Feruchemy are based on both the distance of the target and the amount tapped at a given instance. I can't think of an alternative solution that makes sense. Being able to affect anyone in the Cosmere would be OP, but being limited to a fixed radius seems arbitrary. I think a Duralumin Compounder should be able to connect to more people than someone merely tapping his Duraluminmind, but certainly not to everyone in the whole world.

That probably would be the best and simplest to resolve this issue. Just treat it like a bendalloy cadmium bubble. I don't think it works that way, and I can list a whole host of reasons why that would be problematic, but for balance and less headaches I think it is the best lol. Then again bendalloy and cadmium causes a whole host of headaches on their own as they currently function, so solution......I need more Tylenol......