First post ever - Retribution theory

[shroot]

So I just recently finished W&T, and have only recently discovered the Cosmere and started to dive in to it. I started with mistborn era 1 & 2 and immediately jumped into stormlight after.  And in diving in over the past few months, I’ve loved hearing all of the theories, especially the Harmony/Discord theories, and I have one of my own, that probably has not standing, but I wanted to submit it here with you guys who have more knowledge of the Cosmere and how everything works. 
 

Okay, I was thinking of Odium/Honor and how they make up Retribution currently, but how Retribution itself gets its identity/expression based on the observation of its vessel (similar to harmony) and what other ways those two powers could be expressed together.
 

obviously there’s the war connection with warlight, but I thought about how another expression of odium is passion, and he claims to be the god of passion, and passion paired with the oaths of Honor, is exactly what Adolin speaks about in W&T…. promise. 
 

My very undeveloped idea/theory, is that if Adolin were to become the vessel for both shards, he would become Promise. Or maybe even the power of Honor itself (which has become aware and is learning) may evolve into Promise. 
 

would love to see you guys pick this apart! I’ve had a blast reading these forums over the past few weeks. 

[JustQuestin2004 he/him]

There's definitely something going on with Adolin, the Deadeyes, and the idea of a Promise rather than an Oath. Not to mention how their Shardplate is powered without Stormlight.

Though Promise for a Shard names sounds a bit too on the nose, like calling Odium 'Hatred', accurate but not catchy.

How about Vow? A vow is described as 'A solemn promise'. So maybe Honor will become Vow.

Actually, a few Splinters of Honor split off before it merged with Odium to become Retribution, and it was said in a WOB that if a Shard was split up into a few pieces, they could each have a differing Intent, a piece of the definition of Honor.

WOB

Spoiler

Isaac Betzold

Could a Shard be split into smaller Intents, like if Honor were alive and then was split into maybe Integrity and Bravery?

Brandon Sanderson

This is possible. Very plausible. You ask some weird things sometimes, this one is not that weird, this is very plausible.

So maybe, a piece of Honor is with Adolin and his Unoathed, powering their Shardplate while watching them to learn from them. And that piece of Honor will alter its Intent of 'Honor' to 'Promise' or 'Vow'.

[DSCrankshaw]

My personal pet theory is that no one picks up the Shard of Honor, it becomes self-aware and its own Vessel. But its authority is shared by the Heralds, who will be expanded to 16, and include both Singers and Humans, and won't include any of the original Heralds (but will include Kaladin, and likely some of the other main characters--I personally think Adolin will be the new Bondsmith Herald).

[Teravangian]

I really love this theory, and it's now one of my favorites. Great job, let's read and find out.

[Elder]

On 7/31/2025 at 7:06 PM, shroot said:

So I just recently finished W&T, and have only recently discovered the Cosmere and started to dive in to it. I started with mistborn era 1 & 2 and immediately jumped into stormlight after.  And in diving in over the past few months, I’ve loved hearing all of the theories, especially the Harmony/Discord theories, and I have one of my own, that probably has not standing, but I wanted to submit it here with you guys who have more knowledge of the Cosmere and how everything works. 
 

Okay, I was thinking of Odium/Honor and how they make up Retribution currently, but how Retribution itself gets its identity/expression based on the observation of its vessel (similar to harmony) and what other ways those two powers could be expressed together.
 

obviously there’s the war connection with warlight, but I thought about how another expression of odium is passion, and he claims to be the god of passion, and passion paired with the oaths of Honor, is exactly what Adolin speaks about in W&T…. promise. 
 

My very undeveloped idea/theory, is that if Adolin were to become the vessel for both shards, he would become Promise. Or maybe even the power of Honor itself (which has become aware and is learning) may evolve into Promise. 
 

would love to see you guys pick this apart! I’ve had a blast reading these forums over the past few weeks. 

There’s a certain part of me that can see Adolin as a duelist being a better fit for Retribution than Taravangian.  Not that I think he should take that role.  I also think there’s enough Cultivation to Adolin for him to get all 3 (his wardrobe, his dedication to skill and development, the way he develops people).

[Clarkmon22 He/Him]

On 8/20/2025 at 12:01 PM, Elder said:

There’s a certain part of me that can see Adolin as a duelist being a better fit for Retribution than Taravangian.  Not that I think he should take that role.  I also think there’s enough Cultivation to Adolin for him to get all 3 (his wardrobe, his dedication to skill and development, the way he develops people).

But Cultivation is off of roshar, right?

[Kfish]

On 8/1/2025 at 2:32 PM, DSCrankshaw said:

My personal pet theory is that no one picks up the Shard of Honor, it becomes self-aware and its own Vessel. But its authority is shared by the Heralds, who will be expanded to 16, and include both Singers and Humans, and won't include any of the original Heralds (but will include Kaladin, and likely some of the other main characters--I personally think Adolin will be the new Bondsmith Herald).

Ive been considering this and the nature of the nahel bond. Honor is becoming self aware so at some point it may not want a vessel but may decide it needs a nahel bond to develop further since it is a melding of souls. It would still be its own being acting of its own will but it would be receiving part of a humans soul to help it grow - like Dalinar and the stormfather 

On 7/31/2025 at 10:29 PM, JustQuestin2004 said:

There's definitely something going on with Adolin, the Deadeyes, and the idea of a Promise rather than an Oath. Not to mention how their Shardplate is powered without Stormlight.

Though Promise for a Shard names sounds a bit too on the nose, like calling Odium 'Hatred', accurate but not catchy.

How about Vow? A vow is described as 'A solemn promise'. So maybe Honor will become Vow.

Actually, a few Splinters of Honor split off before it merged with Odium to become Retribution, and it was said in a WOB that if a Shard was split up into a few pieces, they could each have a differing Intent, a piece of the definition of Honor.

WOB

  Reveal hidden contents

Isaac Betzold

Could a Shard be split into smaller Intents, like if Honor were alive and then was split into maybe Integrity and Bravery?

Brandon Sanderson

This is possible. Very plausible. You ask some weird things sometimes, this one is not that weird, this is very plausible.

So maybe, a piece of Honor is with Adolin and his Unoathed, powering their Shardplate while watching them to learn from them. And that piece of Honor will alter its Intent of 'Honor' to 'Promise' or 'Vow'.

The problem with this is that their unoathed scene technically Ll takes place before the battle starts on the top of urithiru.

[Nitpicking]

15 hours ago, Clarkmon22 said:

But Cultivation is off of roshar, right?

Sure. Doesn't mean Adolin has lost his Connection to her, any more than Lift has suddenly lost her abilities now that Cultivation is somewhere else. After all, we see Lift fight a feruchemist in this very book, even though Preservation is part of Harmony on a different planet.

 

45 minutes ago, Kfish said:

The problem with this is that their unoathed scene technically Ll takes place before the battle starts on the top of urithiru.

But in the Spiritual Realm all times are one! [evil smile] It's like how Kaladin was good with a spear because he would get good at it later, according to Syl. [broader evil smile]

[DSCrankshaw]

2 hours ago, Kfish said:

The problem with this is that their unoathed scene technically Ll takes place before the battle starts on the top of urithiru.

I think one of the Splinters is empowering the Unoathed now, explaining why it still works after Stormlight went away. I don't think it was the reason it worked at first-- but before the disappearance of Stormlight, regular Shardplate and Shardblades still worked. 

[Kfish]

On 8/26/2025 at 10:26 AM, DSCrankshaw said:

I think one of the Splinters is empowering the Unoathed now, explaining why it still works after Stormlight went away. I don't think it was the reason it worked at first-- but before the disappearance of Stormlight, regular Shardplate and Shardblades still worked. 

I could see this if we assume the glowing is due to the plate not being fully dead now.

[Nitpicking]

On 8/29/2025 at 8:12 AM, Kfish said:

I could see this if we assume the glowing is due to the plate not being fully dead now.

Was Plate dead? I mean, the subspren who form it didn't participate in any Oaths, but they were Connected to the Radiant, so I don't really know.

[ChillPenguin]

On 8/31/2025 at 1:11 PM, Nitpicking said:

Was Plate dead? I mean, the subspren who form it didn't participate in any Oaths, but they were Connected to the Radiant, so I don't really know.

I agree, I’m not sure the plate was actually dead, not in the same way Deadeyes were. We know they were content, not screaming like the Deadeyes, so maybe they’re more like the old Fabrials without an energy source. The old fabrials seem to not mind being an Oathgate spren etc, and the Sibling wasn’t upset, just sleepy.

 

You’re correct though that the unoathed spren found another way to be connected to the spiritual realm (Investiture is conserved in the Cosmere so it had to come from somewhere). A shard of Honor makes the most sense based on what we saw in WaT. 

[Nitpicking]

9 hours ago, ChillPenguin said:

You’re correct though that the unoathed spren found another way to be connected to the spiritual realm (Investiture is conserved in the Cosmere so it had to come from somewhere). A shard of Honor makes the most sense based on what we saw in WaT. 

Well, in another topic here I argued that it was a Splinter of Adonalsium, namely the Wind, who was the "piece of a god" Ishar needed to reforge the Oathpact. I don't know why she couldn't also be the source of the Oathless. I agree, a Splinter of Honor makes more sense, though.