Alternative to Compounding Breaths

[Trusk'our he/him]

Bio-Chromatic Breaths are an extremely valuable resource. They are easy to move to other Vessels and to shape, they are generally recyclable, they don't leak from Awakeners, and they can stack in a host in such a way that it's relatively easy to become highly Invested. 

However, the easiest method of manufacturing Breath- Compounding- doesn't seem to promising. Burning a metal with Breath inside seems to only return Breath to the Allomancer, assuming it is Keyed to them.

Spoiler

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/120-warsaw-signing/#e8055

Questioner (paraphrased)

What would happen if Allomancer was also an Awakener and Awakened metal he'd burn?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

If he did that, he’d get Allomantic power and also get back the Breaths used in Awakening the metal.

 

Footnote: Supposedly it was around half an hour into the signing line; has not been found on the record although we may have started it after it was asked already;

Additionally, I'm skeptical whether nicrosil Feruchemy on its own would be all that useful for grabbing more Breath. I think there's a good chance Breath tapped would only provide a temporary boost, which is a significant downgrade from organic Breath which is more or less permanent. 

I think there's an exploitable loophole to Breath though, such that you could still manufacture them.

 

First, let's give a willing Nalthian a Hemalurgic spike granting Feruchemical gold, in which they store loads of Health before continuing the process (their Breath most likely making this a bit quicker than a Scadrian, plus the resulting Goldmind should be attuned to Endowment since it came from a Nalthian Spiritweb).

Let's also assume you can Hemalurgically extract a Breath from a Nalthian. It's kind of shaky ground as to whether this is achievable, but if you can manage the Breath should still be Keyed to them.

The Nalthian's Goldmind now lets them regenerate their lost Breath, as it (supposedly) counts as being a form of damage rather than a freely given gift.

Interestingly enough, I think the spike's Identity should allow the Nalthian donor to retrieve that very Breath without implanting the nicrosil spike- albeit with some decay- then stack it with their newly grown Breath.

Spoiler

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/517-tampa-bay-comic-convention-2023/#e16491

Questioner

Warbreaker makes it very clear that Breaths cannot be taken, they have to be freely given with the quote. Would the power of the Shard be able to override this? And if so, since it was not freely given, would the victim still have some sort of manipulation or control over said Breaths?

Brandon Sanderson

You're theorizing in a good direction. The Shard probably would have the power to override this. It depends on various factors, and various Shards could get involved, but it would be the sort of thing that would expose them to attack by other ones. Endowment could manipulate this; others, if they tried to, it would be dangerous for them. And there would be still some Connection to the individual; there is some anyway, but it would not clear it or blank it the way that normally giving your Breath to someone else does.

This process is then repeated, using the new Breaths gained to fill the Nalthian's Goldmind slightly more quickly each time.

 

This process would likely be very expensive upfront, and getting enough Breath to really start rolling would probably take a while, but I think if built up it could allow for a sustainable growth of Bio-Chromatic Breath, no Drabs required. 

[CoderDrag0n8 He/They]

5 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

Bio-Chromatic Breaths are an extremely valuable resource. They are easy to move to other Vessels and to shape, they are generally recyclable, they don't leak from Awakeners, and they can stack in a host in such a way that it's relatively easy to become highly Invested. 

However, the easiest method of manufacturing Breath- Compounding- doesn't seem to promising. Burning a metal with Breath inside seems to only return Breath to the Allomancer, assuming it is Keyed to them.

  Reveal hidden contents

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/120-warsaw-signing/#e8055

Questioner (paraphrased)

What would happen if Allomancer was also an Awakener and Awakened metal he'd burn?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

If he did that, he’d get Allomantic power and also get back the Breaths used in Awakening the metal.

 

Footnote: Supposedly it was around half an hour into the signing line; has not been found on the record although we may have started it after it was asked already;

Additionally, I'm skeptical whether nicrosil Feruchemy on its own would be all that useful for grabbing more Breath. I think there's a good chance Breath tapped would only provide a temporary boost, which is a significant downgrade from organic Breath which is more or less permanent. 

I think there's an exploitable loophole to Breath though, such that you could still manufacture them.

 

First, let's give a willing Nalthian a Hemalurgic spike granting Feruchemical gold, in which they store loads of Health before continuing the process (their Breath most likely making this a bit quicker than a Scadrian, plus the resulting Goldmind should be attuned to Endowment since it came from a Nalthian Spiritweb).

Let's also assume you can Hemalurgically extract a Breath from a Nalthian. It's kind of shaky ground as to whether this is achievable, but if you can manage the Breath should still be Keyed to them.

The Nalthian's Goldmind now lets them regenerate their lost Breath, as it (supposedly) counts as being a form of damage rather than a freely given gift.

Interestingly enough, I think the spike's Identity should allow the Nalthian donor to retrieve that very Breath without implanting the nicrosil spike- albeit with some decay- then stack it with their newly grown Breath.

  Reveal hidden contents

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/517-tampa-bay-comic-convention-2023/#e16491

Questioner

Warbreaker makes it very clear that Breaths cannot be taken, they have to be freely given with the quote. Would the power of the Shard be able to override this? And if so, since it was not freely given, would the victim still have some sort of manipulation or control over said Breaths?

Brandon Sanderson

You're theorizing in a good direction. The Shard probably would have the power to override this. It depends on various factors, and various Shards could get involved, but it would be the sort of thing that would expose them to attack by other ones. Endowment could manipulate this; others, if they tried to, it would be dangerous for them. And there would be still some Connection to the individual; there is some anyway, but it would not clear it or blank it the way that normally giving your Breath to someone else does.

This process is then repeated, using the new Breaths gained to fill the Nalthian's Goldmind slightly more quickly each time.

 

This process would likely be very expensive upfront, and getting enough Breath to really start rolling would probably take a while, but I think if built up it could allow for a sustainable growth of Bio-Chromatic Breath, no Drabs required. 

The WoB says awakened metal not breaths stored in metal

[Trusk'our he/him]

15 minutes ago, CoderDrag0n8 said:

The WoB says awakened metal not breaths stored in metal

Fair point. 

I'm still somewhat skeptical that you can directly Compound Breath though, since you're trying to fuel Endowment’s Investiture with Preservation's (or Ruin's with Hemalurgy).

It would probably be similar to Soulcasting Godmetals of a different Shard, which shouldn't work without the right Shard's Investiture. 

Spoiler

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/406-general-reddit-2020/#e14137

Haylo_Alex

You've said before that Soulcasting can't create atium or lerasium which makes sense since they're made of Investiture from other Shards. But could a Soulcaster, perhaps in the proximity of Dalinar's perpendicularity, provide enough Stormlight to Soulcast something into Honor's Godmetal (tanavastium)? What about Cultivation's metal, or an alloy of both, like Shardblade metal?

Brandon Sanderson

So, creating a God Metal is not something that's done easily in the Cosmere. HOWEVER, it is possible. You'd need a ton of Investiture, and being near Dalinar's perpendicularity is unlikely to be enough. I'd say Soulcasting, or something akin to it, has the means to do this if it could obtain the proper power charge.

 

Footnote: The questioner is mentioning this WoB.

 

[CoderDrag0n8 He/They]

1 minute ago, Trusk'our said:

Fair point. 

I'm still somewhat skeptical that you can directly Compound Breath though, since you're trying to fuel Endowment’s Investiture with Preservation's (or Ruin's with Hemalurgy).

It would probably be similar to Soulcasting Godmetals of a different Shard, which shouldn't work without the right Shard's Investiture. 

  Reveal hidden contents

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/406-general-reddit-2020/#e14137

Haylo_Alex

You've said before that Soulcasting can't create atium or lerasium which makes sense since they're made of Investiture from other Shards. But could a Soulcaster, perhaps in the proximity of Dalinar's perpendicularity, provide enough Stormlight to Soulcast something into Honor's Godmetal (tanavastium)? What about Cultivation's metal, or an alloy of both, like Shardblade metal?

Brandon Sanderson

So, creating a God Metal is not something that's done easily in the Cosmere. HOWEVER, it is possible. You'd need a ton of Investiture, and being near Dalinar's perpendicularity is unlikely to be enough. I'd say Soulcasting, or something akin to it, has the means to do this if it could obtain the proper power charge.

 

Footnote: The questioner is mentioning this WoB.

 

That makes sense. I was just pointing out a flaw.

other than that, it makes sense.

you could have a gold medallion instead of spike. Especially because of identity contamination with hemalurgy.

[Qianweilian He/him]

On 7/27/2025 at 10:48 PM, Trusk'our said:

I think there's an exploitable loophole to Breath though, such that you could still manufacture them.

Honestly, I think an easier "exploitable loophole" is economics. Just trading goods from other planets, especially aluminum, is bound to be profitable.

[JustQuestin2004 he/him]

Maybe if one has an intimate understanding of Rhythms and Lights, they might be able to figure something out?

We know that one can merge Lights like Stormlight and Voidlight through harmonizing the Shard's Pure Tones, we know that you can create Anti-Lights by inverting the Tones. And we know it's possible to Unkey the Lights, as that's what the Ghostbloods were doing and said they knew how to do during WaT.

So maybe, just maybe, with a much greater understanding of Pure Tones, one could change Stormlight into Voidlight? And then, if they learned Endowment's Pure Tone, they could turn Stormlight into Breaths? Or would that just create Endowment-Light? Giftlight? Would that be the same thing as Breaths, since those are also gaseous Investiture like Stormlight, just 'stickier' thanks to being from Endowment.

How one would accomplish this I'm really not sure, but one would likely need an even greater understanding of these things than Navani and Raboniel combined. Vasher might be able to figure it out, he was the one who invented Anti-Voidlight for Gavilar, so he's been messing with Lights and Tones long before anyone else.