Nature of the bond [DISCUSSS]

[+Oltux72 he/him]

We gt confirmation that a bond to an Aviar is a Nahel bond. Does that mean that

1. When Dusk showed Vathi her death he took her on as a squire?
2. The Nahel bond is called rare. Does that mean that it is limited to Surgebinding via Spren (and related powers) and Aviars?
3. Do genuine Aetherbound form a Nahel bond or a Luhel bond or a third kind of bond?

[Treamayne]

On 7/23/2025 at 2:20 PM, Oltux72 said:

We gt confirmation that a bond to an Aviar is a Nahel bond. Does that mean that

1. When Dusk showed Vathi her death he took her on as a squire?
2. The Nahel bond is called rare. Does that mean that it is limited to Surgebinding via Spren (and related powers) and Aviars?
3. Do genuine Aetherbound form a Nahel bond or a Luhel bond or a third kind of bond?

1. Unlikely - thats a function of the Knights Radiant and how Honor's oath-based perception interacts with Realmatic Nahel Bonds.
   • At it's Core, a Nahel bond is a Bond in the Spiritual Realm - Spiritweb to Spiritweb. On Roshar it's the bond of realmatic transition - and Dusk sees some of that as well, since Sak can show him Electrum Shadows from accessing Fortune (implied) - Bonds discussed more here
2. Called rare in IED? If not, what source are you referencing?
3. It was implied that Aetherbound (including TwinSoul) use a Luhel Bond - though that would not preclude having a Bond on more than one level.

Note: IED Ch 37:

Spoiler

“We dream,” Dusk said, “and in so dreaming, emerge into this place. Always, we must find our way home by defeating the Dakwara. The great serpent, demigod.”

“The portal pulls you through, does it?” the man said. “Now that is interesting. Almost as interesting as your Invested birds. The Nahel bond, found in such a strange place as this. But what spirits do your birds bond to?”

“Spirits?” Dusk said.

“Yes, that’s the way of it,” the man said. “Spirits, or sprites, or whatever your local tongue might call them. That’s how the birds get their uncanny abilities, is it not?”

Again, the man seemed to think he had the answers. Dusk gave him nothing further.

This implies that the worms bond with the Spren Butterflies Dusk saw in Drominid's Shadesmar - and the bond transfers through the food chain (worm > Bird who can bond a person). This would also imply that the base starting bond is more like a Greatshell and their Madra, than like a Radiant and their Spren. There are similarities in how Rhyshadium gain near-sapience from their MusicSpren bond and how the Aviar also are near-sapient both by gaining the bond after ingesting the worms and in how they understand their bonded Person. 

Hope that helps

Edited July 31, 2025 by Treamayne
SPAG

[Nitpicking]

On 7/23/2025 at 9:06 PM, Treamayne said:

This implies that the worms bond with the Spren Butterflies Dusk saw in Drominid's Shadesmar - and the bond transfers through the food chain (worm > Bird who can bond a person). This would also imply that the base starting bond is more like a Greatshell and their Madra, than like a Radiant and their Spren. There are similarities in how Rhyshadium gain near-sapience from their MusicSpren bond and how the Aviar also are near-sapient both by gaining the bond after ingesting the worms and in how they understand their bonded Person.

I interpret it more biologically (given my own bio degrees): the "worms" are the caterpillars of those butterflies. Lots of Earth animals are called "worm" and are not what we biologists would use that word for. Inchworms, for instance, are caterpillars of a moth. When the bird eats one, she is actually Connecting to the Cognitive entity the butterfly represents. Likewise, these particular Cognitive beings can't pupate and become adults without gestating inside a Physical Realm bird.

Brandon is very intentional in his naming. It is almost certainly not a coincidence that "worm" can also mean "dragon".