Is story telling actually the most powerful thing in the cosmere?

[Grailmoth]

Not sure if it needs to be said in this part of the forum, but this post has spoilers for Isles of the Emberdark. 

In Isles of the Emberdark, we see the effect that stories, told over generations, have on one of the nephilim, turning it into the Dakwara. Not only does this control the shape of it, making it a giant snake, it also changes its behavior, creating a set of conditions whereby someone can gain control of it for a hundred years. This is exploited by Dusk to provide planetary protection for his people that none of the cosmere superpowers are able to bypass. That is possibly a larger amount of investiture than anything we have seen so far except a Shard. 
 

A few questions come to mind for me. 
 

Could the stories be modified to allow someone to form something like the Nahel bond with a Nephilim?

How sapient are the nephilim?

Could the collective perception of the individuals of the cosmere be manipulated to affect something at the level of a shard?

Is this Hoids long game? Go around the cosmere telling stories and nudging the perceptions of people in order to somehow affect the shards?

How invested are the nephilim? More or less than the big spren and unmade?

Edited July 3, 2025 by Grailmoth

[VersatileThrenodite he/him]

1 hour ago, Grailmoth said:

Could the stories be modified to allow someone to form something like the Nahel bond with a Nephilim?

You could argue thats what we see when Sixth bests the Dakwara. Nahel bonds don't appear to be as structured without a system like the Oaths in place. Sixth bonds Rokke pretty easily and Sak can provide her abilities on a temporary basis to Vathi (though this might be similar to windrunner squires).

1 hour ago, Grailmoth said:

How sapient are the nephilim?

It probably varies based on how big a fragment they started out as as well as the identity they imprint on.

1 hour ago, Grailmoth said:

Could the collective perception of the individuals of the cosmere be manipulated to affect something at the level of a shard?

Is this Hoids long game? Go around the cosmere telling stories and nudging the perceptions of people in order to somehow affect the shards?

I've been thinking something along these lines for awhile stories have both a cognitive and a spiritual component. Shallan does something funky with the story of the girl who looks up for example. I think it will matter at some point.

1 hour ago, Grailmoth said:

How invested are the nephilim? More or less than the big spren and unmade?

They seemingly have a range of power levels as asigned by Silverlight arcanists. At the top level I would think theyre at least as powerful as the God spren and unmade if not more powerful. How big is a fraction of 1/16th of infinity?

[listerfeend]

I feel like "Belief" is the most powerful thing, rather than story telling. It's not so much that the stories have power, but the belief in the accuracy of those stories. It seemed, to me at least, that that was the main thread and theme of this book. We are pretty constantly shown throughout that what Dusk, and by extension the people of the First of the Sun, believes to be true and accurate is far more powerful than what the more knowledgable people know. "That's a Type 1-3...6....4... Entity" says Starling. "Nope, that's the mother freaking Dakwara" says Dusk, and because he and all of his people believe and think that to be true, it is. 

[CoderDrag0n8 He/They]

On 7/2/2025 at 4:59 PM, Grailmoth said:

Not sure if it needs to be said in this part of the forum, but this post has spoilers for Isles of the Emberdark. 

In Isles of the Emberdark, we see the effect that stories, told over generations, have on one of the nephilim, turning it into the Dakwara. Not only does this control the shape of it, making it a giant snake, it also changes its behavior, creating a set of conditions whereby someone can gain control of it for a hundred years. This is exploited by Dusk to provide planetary protection for his people that none of the cosmere superpowers are able to bypass. That is possibly a larger amount of investiture than anything we have seen so far except a Shard. 
 

A few questions come to mind for me. 
 

Could the stories be modified to allow someone to form something like the Nahel bond with a Nephilim?

How sapient are the nephilim?

Could the collective perception of the individuals of the cosmere be manipulated to affect something at the level of a shard?

Is this Hoids long game? Go around the cosmere telling stories and nudging the perceptions of people in order to somehow affect the shards?

How invested are the nephilim? More or less than the big spren and unmade?

It really is only applied to things in the cognitive realm (shadesmar).

On 7/9/2025 at 9:28 AM, listerfeend said:

I feel like "Belief" is the most powerful thing, rather than story telling. It's not so much that the stories have power, but the belief in the accuracy of those stories. It seemed, to me at least, that that was the main thread and theme of this book. We are pretty constantly shown throughout that what Dusk, and by extension the people of the First of the Sun, believes to be true and accurate is far more powerful than what the more knowledgable people know. "That's a Type 1-3...6....4... Entity" says Starling. "Nope, that's the mother freaking Dakwara" says Dusk, and because he and all of his people believe and think that to be true, it is. 

I concor

[lacrossedeamon]

4 hours ago, CoderDrag0n8 said:

It really is only applied to things in the cognitive realm (shadesmar).

Or cognitive entities that exist or bleed into the physical like Nightmares

[CoderDrag0n8 He/They]

19 minutes ago, lacrossedeamon said:

Or cognitive entities that exist or bleed into the physical like Nightmares

Nightmares?

[lacrossedeamon]

1 hour ago, CoderDrag0n8 said:

Nightmares?

Have you read Yumi and the Nightmare Painter?

[CoderDrag0n8 He/They]

10 hours ago, lacrossedeamon said:

Have you read Yumi and the Nightmare Painter?

Yes

OOOOOOH those?