Pick three invested arts

[CoderDrag0n8 He/They]

6 hours ago, Radon said:

@CoderDrag0n8 Why is atium compounding good? Congrats - you're a baby now.

@grahambam Ambrite is the name it's given in The Aether of Night, which isn't canon. in the canon cosmere, the aether's called rosite, and the aether bond is symbiotic and requires water to use; you get magic powers, the aether, which is canonically alive and sentient, gets water to live. And no, shards don't count.

@Duxredux Yeah, let's assume that if your form of investure has mana of some type, you have 2500 BEUs. let's say the arena is a suare grassy feild with some trees and a stone tower in the center. Maybe sweatpants and a t-shirt.

have you read mistborn?

TFE spoilers

Spoiler

THE LORD FRICKIN RULER

 

[DoctaDajman]

@Radon What of loadout? Do shardplate and blade come with certain abilities or do they count as a power themselves? Can you choose living plate and blade without investing your two other abilities into surges?  

And what of those who do choose surges? Do they recieve all of the benefits of using stormlight along with those surges? Note that stormlight allows for gold compounding levels of healing as well as improved agility and a limited improvement of Strength,  basically perfecting the users physical self while removing any physiological safety nets thanks to such high rates of healing. 

This was part of the motivation behind my calling for Lifts boon as an ability. Being able to create lifelight, in my humble opinion, is going to invest the user to a high enough amount to make them immune to most invested attacks and heal, nearly instantly, any physical attacks. It's a turtle build without needing armoring of any kind. 

If anyone who chooses a surge gets access to stormlights passive benefits as well it really tips surges to the OP side. Granting near A pewter and gold compounding benefits to everyone who chooses a surge. Just my 2 copper. 

Edited May 14, 2025 by DoctaDajman

[BigBadBagsworth He/him/his]

@CoderDrag0n8 Sure, you don't age. but regrowing from any wound needs gold compounding, which you won't have, and ulitmite allomantic strength requires a whole different metal to compound.

@DoctaDajman We're imagining, for all intensive purpouses, that you have just the ability that uses investure, and not any unrelated by-product abilities. Light poweed healing is a product of using light, but it's definately posible to grant surges without granting blade or plate, as that's what the first two radiant ideals are. although I'm guessing that if you actually used a hemalurgic Duralumin spike to steal someone's spren bond, you would get the shards, that's not how I want this to work. yes, surges would give you the added strength of a pewter spike and the healing of a gold compounder, but light runs out a lot faster, and lifelight especialy kills you as you get more of it, which is why I'm allowing surges.

[DoctaDajman]

28 minutes ago, Radon said:

and lifelight especialy kills you as you get more of it,

Can you source where this is from? Perhaps it is a spoiler from something I haven't read yet which I dont mind. 

I was under the impression from what I have read thus far that Lift is the only person we have seen using purely lifelight. She gets weaker as she uses it for similar reasons to aetherbound or sand mastery getting weaker, except where they become dehydrated she becomes extremely emaciated. 

It's basically just living with a light perfecting you so long as you have the calories to sustain it, hence the bendalloy compounder. 

What I love about bendalloy as a feruchemical metal is that filling it wont be taxing even if you aren't wanting to waste money buying a ton of the metal to compound. I can already tuck away stacks upon stacks of pancakes. 

Now I wish I knew more about Lift. For instance, does she have the ability to not turn her food into lifelight? This combo would be more difficult to pull off if the light is always there. Always needing to be eating seems taxing, but with no surges picked and doing it strictly for the passive benefits of the lifelight; strength, speed, healing, endurance, being highly invested etc... The only outward use of the lifelight would be fueling bendalloy allomancy with pure investiture and saving the metal for compounding. We have seen people fuel allomancy with pure investiture before and it is glorious. I imagine these speed bubbles would be something else for sure. 

Tack on becoming a Savant to using the speed bubbles and potentially being able to move them with you... 

I love the bendalloy compounding hack for aetherbound. I made a character with it plus being a spore eater that I thought was great.  After thinking on this more though, I am really really attracted to the passive benefits of light and Lifts gift is the perfect avenue. Nothing showy about the build. Just a battery for light and using light to fuel allomancy. 

[CoderDrag0n8 He/They]

1 hour ago, Radon said:

@CoderDrag0n8 Sure, you don't age. but regrowing from any wound needs gold compounding, which you won't have, and ulitmite allomantic strength requires a whole different metal to compound.

@DoctaDajman We're imagining, for all intensive purpouses, that you have just the ability that uses investure, and not any unrelated by-product abilities. Light poweed healing is a product of using light, but it's definately posible to grant surges without granting blade or plate, as that's what the first two radiant ideals are. although I'm guessing that if you actually used a hemalurgic Duralumin spike to steal someone's spren bond, you would get the shards, that's not how I want this to work. yes, surges would give you the added strength of a pewter spike and the healing of a gold compounder, but light runs out a lot faster, and lifelight especialy kills you as you get more of it, which is why I'm allowing surges.

No, the atium compounding was the reason he could regrow from any wound. He was literally immortal. Everyone easily agrees that atium compounding is THE BEST one.

[Belandrius Ohhmar He/Him]

If I cannot have chromium I would Like Steel Compounding.

Also if this becomes a gladiator fight in the fight are we able to gain more investiture types? Like say If I were to kill someone with an Aviar can I take and bond that Aviar or whatever it is Aviar do? or with spren steal someone spren and take that surge? Or make someone give me their breaths as they die? or their plate and blade? or what if I were to just like find some Lerasium? Or Harmonium? (because burning it probably gets you to become a full Feruchemist.)

Edited May 14, 2025 by Oh Bel

[Trusk'our he/him]

20 minutes ago, CoderDrag0n8 said:

No, the atium compounding was the reason he could regrow from any wound. He was literally immortal. Everyone easily agrees that atium compounding is THE BEST one.

This is not correct. 

Feruchemical Atium merely changes your physical age, not even the Spiritweb. It isn't restoring you to your natural state, but actively fights against the Spiritweb.

Spoiler

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/188-general-reddit-2015/#e3923

Doom-Slayer

So how do the exact mechanics of Feruchemy in relation to Compounding work?

This confusion is primarily around how [the Lord Ruler] gets his near infinite age.

Okay. So first off, I understand the concept of how they work. Feruchemy is net zero, Allomancy is net positive, combine them and you end with a net positive Feruchemy ability.

So how Feruchemy normally works... you take say weight, store half your normal weight and then you can access it whenever you want. So you (originally X weight) are taking A weight, storing it, and then you are at (X-A) weight, with access to A. So we have a metalmind that store magnitude with the efficiency of how its received based on how quickly or slowly it is drawn upon.

All the metalminds except atium seem to act this way. Atium seems to work as storing magnitude/time rather than just magnitude. The way I understand it is that say a 30 year old person becomes 50 years old for 1 day, this would give access to 20 years difference for a 1 day period.

The Lord Ruler then exploits this by gaining access to say 20 years difference over 10 days (magnification by Compounding) which he then slowly feeds into himself to lower his age.

Why this difference? I'm assuming its to maintain a neutral "body age" because with just magnitude a person could permanently make themselves younger by Compounding.

With just magnitude of "20 years of youth" being stored, if the Lord Ruler magnified it, he could turn it into "200 years of youth" and then he would never need the constant stream off youth (and wouldn't have died without the bracelets)

Hope this makes sense.

Brandon Sanderson

All right, so there are a few things you have to understand about cosmere magics to grok all of this.

First, is that magics can be hacked together. You'll see more of this in the future of the cosmere, but an early one is the hack here--where you're essentially powering Feruchemy with Allomancy. (A little more complex than that, but it seems like you get the idea.)

The piece you're missing is the nature of a person's Spiritual aspect. This is similar to a Platonic idea--the idea that there's a perfect version of everyone somewhere. It's a mix of their connections to places, people, and times with raw Investiture. The soul, you might say.

(Note that over time, a person's perception of themselves shapes their Cognitive aspect as well, and the Cognitive aspect can interfere with the Spiritual aspect trying to make the Physical aspect repair itself.) Healing in the cosmere often works by aligning your Physical self with your Spiritual self--making the Physical regrow. More powerful forms of Investiture can repair the soul as well.

However, your age is part of your Connection to places, people, and times. Your soul "knows" things, like where you were born, what Investiture you are aligned with, and--yes--how old you are. When you're healing yourself, you're restoring yourself to a perfect state--when you're done, everything is good. When you're changing your age, however, you are transforming yourself to something unnatural. Against what your soul understands to be true.

So the Spiritual aspect will push for a restoration to the way you should be. With this Compounding hack, you're not changing connection; it's a purely Physical Realm change.

This dichotomy cannot remain for long. And the greater the disparity, the more pressure the spirit will exert. Ten or twenty years won't matter much. A thousand will matter a lot. So the only way to use Compounding to change your age is to store up all this extra youth in a metalmind, then be constantly tapping it to counteract the soul's attempt to restore you to how you should be.

Yes, all of this means there are FAR more efficient means of counteracting aging than the one used by the Lord Ruler. It's a hack, and not meant to be terribly efficient. Eventually, he wouldn't have been able to maintain himself this way at all. Changing Connection (or even involving ones Cognitive Aspect a little more) would have been far more efficient, though actively more difficult.

Though this is the point where I ping [Peter Ahlstrom] and get him to double-check all this. Once in a while, my fingers still type the wrong term in places. (See silvereye vs tineye.)

Gold Feruchemy/Compounding was used in conjunction with Atium for TLR's immortality. 

If Atium had other Feruchemical uses, Sazed would have certainly known, as the Terris had already experimented with the metal.

 

Edited May 14, 2025 by Trusk'our

[BigBadBagsworth He/him/his]

@DoctaDajman Sorry, my language was unclear! I meant that at a point, you can't get more lifelight without depriving your body of calories you need to be able to beat your heart or fire your neurons. And I just realised you meant bendalloy compounder, rather than just allomancer. Sorry for not understanding sooner! I seen now that with bendalloy compounding you could get basically infinite lifelight.

@CoderDrag0n8 Look at the coppermind's page on feruchemy. 

Spoiler

The bands that Vin pulled off the lord ruler were made of every allomatic metal.

Atium has been noted in TFE as one of the more useless metals for feruchemists, basically only useful as a diguise for changing the ages of keepers

[DoctaDajman]

51 minutes ago, CoderDrag0n8 said:

No, the atium compounding was the reason he could regrow from any wound. He was literally immortal. Everyone easily agrees that atium compounding is THE BEST one.

@Trusk'our is right. It was the gold compounding that healed him from everything. We saw it in action with Miles in AoL. The Atium compounding was why TLR was able to live for 1000 years but compounding atium did not heal TLR from any injury. His physical prowess came from all of the other feruchemical powers being compounded. You could pull something fairly similar in terms of living forever and healing through nearly everything with a 2500 breath power combined with gold compounding. But then your offensive abilities will be limited to just the things you can do as an awakener of the 5th heightening, which shouldn't be scoffed at. A solid turtle build there. 

41 minutes ago, Belandrius Ohhmar said:

If I cannot have chromium I would Like Steel Compounding.

Also if this becomes a gladiator fight in the fight are we able to gain more investiture types? Like say If I were to kill someone with an Aviar can I take and bond that Aviar or whatever it is Aviar do? or with spren steal someone spren and take that surge? Or make someone give me their breaths as they die? or their plate and blade? or what if I were to just like find some Lerasium? Or Harmonium? (because burning it probably gets you to become a full Feruchemist.)

I didn't even think of the fact that steel compounding plus 1 leaves open the steel compounding and Abrasion combo. Being able to slicken yourself would totally avoid all friction burns and would open up the ultimate speedster. Plus in the rules outlined by @Radon you will have access to stormlight which will heal you through any damage you may take when striking someone at those speeds. 

Now my stretched mind wants to know if stormlight would also help bridge the gap between steels physical speed increasing so much and their minds ability to process not being sped up at the same rate... diminishing returns suck. 

[BigBadBagsworth He/him/his]

@Belandrius Ohhmar Only if you kill with duralumin hemalurgy

[DoctaDajman]

This is a random combo that I think would be epic... not that it is 100% cosmere, but simply that it is 100% Brandon.  

Feruchemy with... Alcatraz spoilers

Spoiler

Bestowers lenses from Alcatraz. For those who are unfamiliar and dont mind the spoilers... bestowers lenses allow the user to give someone they are looking at something that they themselves have. In the book he looks at an enemy and punches himself making the enemy take the damage at the time (although he feels the effects when he stops "bestowing"). 

In this case I would be attempting to hack the bestowal of negative effects of storing into metalminds. The person I look at suddenly feels like they are moving through clay as I store my speed. Or the person I look at suddenly feels like they are in total organ failure while I am storing into gold... 

Edit: 

Does anyone think this combos effects could be manipulated in the cosmere to do the same though connection? 

Edited May 14, 2025 by DoctaDajman

[Belandrius Ohhmar He/Him]

59 minutes ago, Radon said:

@Belandrius Ohhmar Only if you kill with duralumin hemalurgy

what do you mean by this?

[grahambam he/him]

what if you could use duralumin on your rosite. . . 

[BigBadBagsworth He/him/his]

@Belandrius Ohhmar You would only get their powers if u used a duralimin hemalurgic spike to steal the connection.

@DoctaDajman Since the Smedryverse isn't cosmere and doesn't use investure, oculatory abilitys aren't invested arts, per sé, but that raises an interesting philosophical question: can you give someone a lack of something using bestower's lenses?

[Belandrius Ohhmar He/Him]

1 hour ago, Radon said:

@Belandrius Ohhmar You would only get their powers if u used a duralimin hemalurgic spike to steal the connection.

 

oh ok.

[Through The Living Grub He/Him]

A-Pewter, F-steel, and Division.

Pewter helps in regular fights, can be used to help with storing speed. 

Speed just makes Division broken. I feel like this surge is slept on because we've only seen it onscreen a few times, but is literally the magical version of a nuke. Even without physical contact, the intimidation factor and lighting the environment on fire is a huge advantage.

[Born of Mist He/Him]

Double steel + division, run at them at the speed of light and turn them into a pile of fine ash.