CoderDrag0n8 He/They Posted April 27, 2025 Posted April 27, 2025 Okay so... I was rereading Secret history and got to the point where fuzz gives the light allegory. I now have a few questions. 1. Why does metal only glow on Scadrial? I have never seen it glow in the cognitive realm on Roshar. Why is this different? 2. In secret history, the ground is made of mist. On Roshar, it is made of beads/spheres. Why does it change? 3. In Fuzz's allegory it implies that there could be multiple layers of the cognitive realm, going closer and closer to the 'sun', or spiritual realm, and also being quicker and quicker to travel through. Am I understanding this wrong?
Treamayne Posted April 27, 2025 Posted April 27, 2025 49 minutes ago, CoderDrag0n8 said: Okay so... I was rereading Secret history and got to the point where fuzz gives the light allegory. I now have a few questions. 1. Why does metal only glow on Scadrial? I have never seen it glow in the cognitive realm on Roshar. Why is this different? 2. In secret history, the ground is made of mist. On Roshar, it is made of beads/spheres. Why does it change? 3. In Fuzz's allegory it implies that there could be multiple layers of the cognitive realm, going closer and closer to the 'sun', or spiritual realm, and also being quicker and quicker to travel through. Am I understanding this wrong? Look at what does glow in Roshar's Shadesmar (Souls) - Metals glows in Scadrial's Shadesmar because of how Ruin and Preservation created life meaning that Souls and Metals are inherently Connected. The basic form of any given Shardworld's Shadesmar will be based on the Cognitive Perception of the planet and their collective population. On Scadrial, Mist represents the whole planet because it is ubiquitous - therefore uncondensed Shadesmar (high thought density) is represented by Mist On Roshar, Gemstones and Beads are the most ubiquitous and so the same efect results in the bead oceans Note: In the TLM MeLaan Epilogue - the local Shadesmar of the scene is a clear liquid of some kind (Which, when combined with her Sho-del guide may imply that event takes place on or near U-Tol (from Yumi and TSM)) The allegory is not about "height" - if you notice how when Kel visits Lake Luthadel, the ground becomes a hard Obsidian-like material. Likewise, when Kel visits the Ire he has traversed the majority of the Entire Scadrian Solar System (in Physical Realm Parallel) - areas where less life exists and/or where people are not "thinking about" an area allows the Cognitive Realm in that area to "condense" - which means that each step in the cognitive realm would be travelling the equivalent of hundreds to thousands of km in the physical realm. This is why a caravan can walk from one planet to another in weeks or months. WoBs: Spoiler Quote Questioner So like as far as distance traveled in Shadesmar. So when Kelsier is in Shadesmar, he meets the Ire, who are presumably Elantrians. How far did he travel? Is that still within Scadrial's realm of the Cognitive Realm? Brandon Sanderson Yeah, that's within-- By the time he meets them he has slipped right to the edge of the Cognitive Realm on Scadrial and into, kind of, the darkness between planets. Questioner Okay. Brandon Sanderson He's close enough that he can get there. But he's kind of suffused with Scadrian Investiture then, to a point that it would be harder--you saw in there--for him to get further. I would say that he's like... He has entered space between planets, but he's not out of the solar system. Questioner Okay, so he's still in the Scadrian system, just not--just edging a bit there. Brandon Sanderson Yeah, yep. That's what I'd say if I had to actually point him in that <a map>. It gets really fuzzy though, because it wouldn't be too much longer before he enters another solar system. Like, he would pass lightyears in steps as he starts getting further, if that makes any sense. Questioner That makes sense, because, I mean, with worldhopping in general it's like... You can only... I mean it's... I don't know how the time dilation works per se, but... Brandon Sanderson It's not-- there's not much time dilation. What you've got going on is... Things that people aren't around to think about, things without minds or any sort of life, don't manifest on Shadesmar very much at all. And so the space between planets gets really small, unless there's another planet out there with thinking beings or at least some sort of life on it. Like even lower lifeforms, you'll get something manifesting on Shadesmar. But yeah Questioner Okay. So the Cognitive Realm, in Shadesmar... It's kind of the... Any kind of sentient or cognitive life-- that's what is building Shadesmar? So like anything where there's blackness... is like... condensed or-- Brandon Sanderson Yes, yes. Particularly if no one's thinking about it. If people are thinking about it - like, for instance, an island in the ocean that was scoured of all life and even bacteria would still manifest in Shadesmar on that planet because people are aware of it and things like this. But one on the other side of the planet, that no one ever knew about it, probably wouldn't. Questioner So that same island, if people just stopped thinking about it or like stopped being aware of its presence, would it... Brandon Sanderson It could slowly vanish, yes. And so-- But that's more of a thought experiment. You're never gonna have a planet that that happens to, you know cause-- but thought experiment wise, yes, that would eventually kind of get consumed by Shadesmar and vanish. The same thing would happen to a planet that you strip the atmosphere from--all the bacteria and life dies on it--you know, slowly going to vanish. But a moon will still manifest because people are thinking about it. It'll just not-- it won't-- it'll be hokey, it'll be weird--the moon will be. Like you might find a little patch that represents the moon. Something like that. Questioner That's interesting. Brandon Sanderson You're not gonna find the full landscape of the moon until people start visiting it. And it's gonna grow on Shadesmar. White Sand vol.1 release party (June 28, 2016) Quote Dallen Powell Is it easier to travel in the Cognitive Realm because people in the Physical Realm don't understand the immensity of space, and their lack of comprehension condenses the Cognitive Realm? Brandon Sanderson I'd say that's a factor, yeah. Definitely a factor. I think it's impossible to comprehend the immensity of space even with all the visualizations I've seen. Yeah, definitely. Good question. YouTube Spoiler Stream 1 (Dec. 17, 2020) M:SH CH 1-1: Quote Some of those lights moved. He frowned, stepping toward one, and only then did he recognize that many of the lights were people. He saw each as an intense white glow radiating out from a human form. Metal and souls are the same thing, he observed. Who would have thought? Hope that helps 2
CoderDrag0n8 He/They Posted April 27, 2025 Author Posted April 27, 2025 10 minutes ago, Treamayne said: Look at what does glow in Roshar's Shadesmar (Souls) - Metals glows in Scadrial's Shadesmar because of how Ruin and Preservation created life meaning that Souls and Metals are inherently Connected. The basic form of any given Shardworld's Shadesmar will be based on the Cognitive Perception of the planet and their collective population. On Scadrial, Mist represents the whole planet because it is ubiquitous - therefore uncondensed Shadesmar (high thought density) is represented by Mist On Roshar, Gemstones and Beads are the most ubiquitous and so the same efect results in the bead oceans Note: In the TLM MeLaan Epilogue - the local Shadesmar of the scene is a clear liquid of some kind (Which, when combined with her Sho-del guide may imply that event takes place on or near U-Tol (from Yumi and TSM)) The allegory is not about "height" - if you notice how when Kel visits Lake Luthadel, the ground becomes a hard Obsidian-like material. Likewise, when Kel visits the Ire he has traversed the majority of the Entire Scadrian Solar System (in Physical Realm Parallel) - areas where less life exists and/or where people are not "thinking about" an area allows the Cognitive Realm in that area to "condense" - which means that each step in the cognitive realm would be travelling the equivalent of hundreds to thousands of km in the physical realm. This is why a caravan can walk from one planet to another in weeks or months. WoBs: Reveal hidden contents M:SH CH 1-1: Hope that helps That is actually really helpful. Thanks for clearing that up! 1
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