Kandraborn Possibilities?!?!?

[Jaqqsyn]

So, I'm relatively new to Brando Sando, and I've only read MB Era 1, and through SoS. But the reveal at the end of SoS got me thinking that humans and kandra should be able to reproduce together... 

Let's establish some knowns

• Humans have a set and known method of reproduction
• Mistwraiths also have a set, albeit unknown, form of reproduction
• Kandra are simply hemalurgically enhanced mistwraiths
• Kandra can perfectly mimic the organs of any organism, which would include reproductive organs
• Koloss don't have an established form of reproduction, yet we somehow have koloss-blooded people

Based on these known facts, it stands to reason that Kandra and Humans should be able to have children together. But what would this entail? Would the child be considered a child of the deceased that the kandra is copying because they mimic the DNA? Would this body have any special transformative abilities? What do you guys think??

[CoderDrag0n8 He/They]

4 minutes ago, Jaqqsyn said:

So, I'm relatively new to Brando Sando, and I've only read MB Era 1, and through SoS. But the reveal at the end of SoS got me thinking that humans and kandra should be able to reproduce together... 

Let's establish some knowns

• Humans have a set and known method of reproduction
• Mistwraiths also have a set, albeit unknown, form of reproduction
• Kandra are simply hemalurgically enhanced mistwraiths
• Kandra can perfectly mimic the organs of any organism, which would include reproductive organs
• Koloss don't have an established form of reproduction, yet we somehow have koloss-blooded people

Based on these known facts, it stands to reason that Kandra and Humans should be able to have children together. But what would this entail? Would the child be considered a child of the deceased that the kandra is copying because they mimic the DNA? Would this body have any special transformative abilities? What do you guys think??

Kandras make their own internal organs, and Sazed made Koloss able to reproduce. These 2 things are confirmed. I have been wondering about this topic for a while though.

[Jaqqsyn]

Ok, good to know about the Koloss. And I understand that Kandra make their own organs, but I just wonder if they have their own DNA or if their cells would have the DNA of a person they're mimicking

[Elite01]

lowkey I could see a half kandra child showing up. Do not quote me on this but I thought I remember Brandon saying when kandra impersonate people they can also get their fingerprints and he said its part mimicry skill part magic (which I assume is forming a connection with your victim by consuming their bones or something crazy) so I would think DNA would be on the table. 

I just don't know what would be the result. I think the conservative guess is a human who is more flexible and maybe shape shift their hands? Like turning fingers into skeleton keys or something. 

[Jaqqsyn]

Right? Some other's I've talked to have thought similar things, like possibly being able to change eye color or something along the lines of Tonks from Harry Potter where It's just minor transformation stuff.

[Treamayne]

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45 minutes ago, Jaqqsyn said:

So, I'm relatively new to Brando Sando, and I've only read MB Era 1, and through SoS. But the reveal at the end of SoS got me thinking that humans and kandra should be able to reproduce together... 

Let's establish some knowns

• Humans have a set and known method of reproduction
• Mistwraiths also have a set, albeit unknown, form of reproduction
• Kandra are simply hemalurgically enhanced mistwraiths
• Kandra can perfectly mimic the organs of any organism, which would include reproductive organs
• Koloss don't have an established form of reproduction, yet we somehow have koloss-blooded people

Based on these known facts, it stands to reason that Kandra and Humans should be able to have children together. But what would this entail? Would the child be considered a child of the deceased that the kandra is copying because they mimic the DNA? Would this body have any special transformative abilities? What do you guys think??

WoBs

Spoiler

Quote

Questioner

Could a kandra imitating a human have a child with the human?

Brandon Sanderson

So, I kinda go back and forth on this. So-- 'Cause I think about it, then I tweak the magic, and I think "no this isn't possible," and then I go back, and I'm like, "but..." So it kinda comes down to a lot of things, such as, would I want a DNA test to be able to determine if a kandra is real or not. And I haven't canonized that yet, so your answer is, Read And Find Out, once I decide. I go back and forth on that one so much.

Oathbringer release party (Nov. 13, 2017)

Quote

Questioner

Given that kandra can replicate human organs, is it possible for a human and a kandra to have a child? And if so, would that child be purely human, or some kind of combination?

Brandon Sanderson

That's a yes, and it would be some kind of combination.

Dragonsteel 2023 (Nov. 21, 2023)

Quote

Questioner

Can a kandra have a human kid, if they're in a--

Brandon Sanderson

...So, their DNA would-- I've answered this both ways, I think, on the internet, as I go back on forth on whether I want DNA testing to be able to catch a kandra or not. I've erred on the side of, their DNA isn't human, and so they would not be compatible, but I've gone the other direction some of the time when people have asked this question. So, I guess the answer is, I have not fully decided for myself yet.

Oathbringer release party (Nov. 13, 2017)

 

So, mostly it's a "likely possible - details are RAFO."

Hope that helps 

Edited April 23, 2025 by Treamayne
Ref/SPAG

[Elite01]

okay did some research I can't find anything about kandra and fingerprints so I might have hallucinated that part lol.

[Jaqqsyn]

Ok, that is great actually, thanks!! Can't wait to see what he does with this!

[CoderDrag0n8 He/They]

2 hours ago, Jaqqsyn said:

Ok, good to know about the Koloss. And I understand that Kandra make their own organs, but I just wonder if they have their own DNA or if their cells would have the DNA of a person they're mimicking

1 hour ago, Treamayne said:

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WoBs

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So, mostly it's a "likely possible - details are RAFO."

Hope that helps 

Yeah, I am pretty sure Kandra have their own DNA

[DoctaDajman]

23 hours ago, Treamayne said:

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So, mostly it's a "likely possible - details are RAFO."

Hope that helps 

Given the dates of those WOBs and the fact that both RAFOs were back in 2017 and the yes was 2023, I have a good feeling about this one being a character he is already planning on having, at the least as a side character. 

How it would look and work is an interesting thing to think about. I mean I would be excited to see someone who grows a skeleton like normal but other organs are more maleable and they have control over that. Maybe they could replicate their own cells at will and have a significantly higher regeneration rate or something neat.  Even just being able to build some mass based on what they have consumed would be really neat.  

A version of changing skin and hair color would be super RAD as well. 

Human skeleton kandra goo body. Perfect.  

[Duxredux he/him]

Oookay, DNA and sDNA. I think I need to make a reference to the greater Cosmere for hybrids as a starting pointing. 

Spoiler

We know that procreation between the Singers and Humans of Roshar is possible because the Herdazian crystalline nails and the Horneater's strong teeth are inherited from their Singer ancestry. No idea where the usual Singer gemhearts or spren bonds to change forms fits into this, but it's history at this point. The physiology is pretty wildly different but it seems to have worked out.  That said, considering them to develop mammary glands and have hair, Singers still seem like they might fall under the category of mammal. Kandra definitely don't grow hair and as MeLaan has stated, a human is more closely related to a cow than a Kandra.

Now let's talk about potential ramifications if Kandra can replicate another person down to the DNA, along with my usual disclaimer that I'm not an expert. First let's talk scale of both size and time. DNA is tiny, so tiny that the best electron microscopes we have can't resolve the specific nucleotide pairs, and instead we have to use methods like cutting the DNA at known junctures and comparing lengths of resulting chains or tagging them with radioactive indicators. For a normal human, the process where a cell will read DNA and copy it would be during the S phase of the cell cycle and this process usually takes about 6 to 8 hours to unzip and copy the 3 billion nucleotide pairs even with thousands of DNA polymerases operating in tandem. Compare that to a Kandra's full systemic transformation time of a couple hours down to several minutes. To me, that difference in speed seems well beyond what a modified organism can do and pretty much requires magic to be involved, though I'm not sure if Mistwraiths are abnormally Invested beyond their inaccessible Feruchemist heritage and their Blessings - with abilities that don't look like would accelerate the process to that extent. I've already noted how long it takes to do this organically. So... how could it be copied so fast? The degree of fidelity required to have identical DNA in every individual cell is orders of magnitude beyond the relatively macro scale of muscle and hair placement and shape with the Kandra's natural color changing ability to tint everything the correct shades.

Furthermore, if a Kandra can imitate down to the level of the DNA, then I don't think there should be any reason that they couldn't make their own bones and hair from a biology standpoint. That seems to imply that there's a Cognitive or Spiritual aspect that blocks their ability to keratinize cells for hair or grow bones that presumably is passed on through sDNA. There's also no way of knowing how this hybridization would play out. Would they have skeleton with Kandra flesh like suggested by @DoctaDajman? Would they have a partially developed skeleton or no skeleton at all? Would their mind be stunted as is the case for Mistwraiths, requiring Hemalurgic spikes to bring them to sapience? How much of the body's structure would be human with the usual requirements to sustain life and how much would be a Kandra? Could the hybrid actual survive to birth? It doesn't seem to be a given. What happens if the one pregnant is a Kandra and transforms into a different animal, like a wolf hound or horse with an entirely different hormonal loadout? Does this open the door for Kandra hybrids with the animal kingdom like Ditto and most Pokemon?

Here's the thing, because of the bone and hair limitation and required Hemalurgic Spikes, it's impossible for a Kandra to completely avoid detection, even if it can copy DNA. The spikes alone will get them flagged by security checkpoints like at an airport or important conventions, and a targeted and detailed autopsy will show that the bone marrow died long before the rest of the body. It's the child rearing aspect that really adds the complications. Having the underlying cell structure that can move around imitate another species seems like it would have much simpler ramifications, though aspects of those limitations are reminiscent of (cosmere spoilers).

Spoiler

The Siah Aimians. Autopsy will absolutely show that a body was not human, but composed of hordlings.

Even without specialized equipment, I just realized a fairly obvious way to tell if you're living with a Kandra - they won't shed. They can't afford to. Your dog, cat, bird, sister, uncle, etc. won't be leaving bits of their hair or equivalent everywhere they go, so clean the vacuum head regularly and check for any hair that should be there but isn't. Also, their hair won't grow so watch for coworkers that never get a haircut or develop 5 o'clock shadow. Yes there are ways around this for a Kandra, collect similar hair to distribute, but it would take a lot of attention to detail to slowly push out stubble over the course of a day and retract it at home as "shaving".

Edited April 25, 2025 by Duxredux

[sespe14 he/him]

So from what i understood from all of this, Is that it might be possible under specific circumstances and that kandra probably cant recreate DNA. So if they were to have a child it would be theirs, not from the body they were hosting.

As to how this child might be, i'm guessing it cannot change bodies, like it Is stuck with its human forma, although it could possibly slightly rearrange their bodies for some specific things, like swapping a broken bone for a new healthy one or becoming taller by getting larger bones, though i dont think it can recreate anything, so whatever it does it would hurt itself in doing so by stretching organs and skin. Or thats what i think would happen where one to exist