Metalminds and forced tapping

[therunner he/him]

In TSM we have seen that by that point in timeline, Scadrians invented medallions/metalminds that can forcibly make you 'tap' them, in the weight bracelets put on Nomad.

It was quickly speculated that forcible storing would also be possible (usually discussed in context of creating Identity-free spikes).  However, thought occurred to me that it might not be so simple.

The reason is that Investing something/someone is generally rather easy, we have many examples

• Giving Breath (which can also be weaponized as done by Vasher)
• Various Lashings on Roshar
• Sharing heat on Canticle between Threnodites (and other invited people)
• Metalminds and Fabrials of Scadrial

Notably most of these require physical contact (with exception of some Lashings, which can be thrown in form of 'liquid' Investiture...wasteful Rosharans just throwing Investiture around), likely due to requisite Connection that is strong enough.

So this establishes that giving Investiture is relatively easy.

Removal of Investiture from a person seems to be much more difficult, basically coming down to Leechers and Larkin, both of which can seemingly affect only kinetic Investiture in most cases

Spoiler

Questioner

Nicrosil and chromium, do those have any interaction with people using Feruchemy, or other Investiture in general? Leechers or Nicrobursts.

Brandon Sanderson

Could you use those on Feruchemists? You should be able to, yes.

Questioner

Would that only work while they're tapping it?

Brandon Sanderson

If it's active Investiture, probably yes. You'd probably need it to be kinetic Investiture in order for them to do anything about it.

Dragonsteel Mini-Con 2021 (Nov. 22, 2021)

From this side, we can look at what the weight bracelets did to Nomad as a form of what giving Breaths is, infusion of Investiture, just this one is coded as 'weight', i.e. metalmind is not directly acting on Nomad it is acting on stored Investiture and giving it away. The reason why SoScad airships can store weight via fabrial, is that the fabrial is part of the ship, and as such effectively stores its own weight.

As such, I posit that metalminds/medallions that force you to store an attribute don't exist, because that would require them to act on attributes that don't have proper Identity. The person would have to somehow see the fabrial as part of themselves in order for it to function.

Edited April 3, 2025 by therunner

[JustQuestin2004 he/him]

Let me be the first to poke a hole in your theory here, with the very book you're referencing.

The Sunlit Man Chapter 3:

Spoiler

As he did, however, a piercing shock of cold swept through him, originating at his wrists.

He looked down at the bracers he'd be given. They were leeching body heat right out of him, leaving him frozen, his muscles immoblized. He exhaled, his breath misting. He glanced at Glowing Eyes - who held a device with buttons in it.

Bracers that can leech away body heat, sounds like a Brassmind forcibly storing heat. They're even described as 'Golden' and Brass is kind of gold-ish.

Now you might say that they're a local invention, but Nomad himself guesses that much like the knowledge to make the Charred, the Cinder King gained these Bracers from the Timetellers. Who are Scadrians in the far future of the Cosmere who have likely studied the hell out of the Metallic Arts by now.

I'd also like to point out that one can store into Medallions while sleeping, which is normally not possible with non-Bronze Feruchemists, as described by this WOB:

Spoiler

addatatta

In Era 1, Sazed says the only thing you can Feruchemically store while sleeping is wakefulness, but in Era 2 they have the sky ships that require everyone to be storing weight to fly and they don't land while people sleep. Was Sazed just wrong, or is that a difference between normal Feruchemy and using the unsealed metalminds?

Brandon Sanderson

Unsealed metalminds, I am moving toward complete—you probably already guessed this—mechanical uses of Investiture, and this indeed is a step toward that. And so we are stepping toward having a little machine that gives you powers. That's what the world wants to try to find. And this is—this being mechanical—we'll just say that the medallions and the things that they're building have more of a life-force, more of an Identity of their own than a traditional metalmind does, even though they're unkeyed and all of this stuff.

Enough of an Identity to forcibly store the attribute of those that they are connected to?  

It'd be pretty useful on Scadrial to have some of these things, especially if they can store something like Investiture, letting you completely depower your opponents and, assuming it's possible to modify them after their use, perhaps let you tap into that power for your own use.

With this key piece of evidence and the implications of the WOB, I have no choice but to disagree with you.

[therunner he/him]

Well poked!  Nothing to do but concede.

Haven't read full TSM in a while, so didn't recall this passage.

16 hours ago, JustQuestin2004 said:

I'd also like to point out that one can store into Medallions while sleeping, which is normally not possible with non-Bronze Feruchemists, as described by this WOB:

  Reveal hidden contents

addatatta

In Era 1, Sazed says the only thing you can Feruchemically store while sleeping is wakefulness, but in Era 2 they have the sky ships that require everyone to be storing weight to fly and they don't land while people sleep. Was Sazed just wrong, or is that a difference between normal Feruchemy and using the unsealed metalminds?

Brandon Sanderson

Unsealed metalminds, I am moving toward complete—you probably already guessed this—mechanical uses of Investiture, and this indeed is a step toward that. And so we are stepping toward having a little machine that gives you powers. That's what the world wants to try to find. And this is—this being mechanical—we'll just say that the medallions and the things that they're building have more of a life-force, more of an Identity of their own than a traditional metalmind does, even though they're unkeyed and all of this stuff.

Enough of an Identity to forcibly store the attribute of those that they are connected to? 

I think that this could be different, in that you initiate process before falling asleep, and then it simply continues.