Wax's Misaligned Earring

[Trusk'our he/him]

You know, I was struck by something odd and re-checked my copy of TLM.

Marasi pulls out Set bad guy's spikes, including a Trellium spike. All of which are embedded in the ribs.

Later, Wax makes an earring from the Trellium, which seems to Connect him to Telsin, Autonomy's almost-Avatar on Scadrial. 

Spoiler

Instead, she ripped aside his shirt- revealing four spikes pounded in deep between his ribs. As she suspected. 

TLM- pg. 49

Dang it. He was going to have to at least try. He pulled the Trellium earring out and slipped it into his ear.

He felt a jolt and a disconnect, like the coach he was riding in had hit a bump. Different from when he talked to Harmony.

TLM- pg. 193 (yes, yes, I filtered Wax's profanity. Sue me.)

According to the Inquisitor table, there are no physical powers "between the ribs" as Marasi describes the Cycle's, but there are only physical power bindpoints around the head and shoulders.

Now, Trellium seems to mimic Atium's ability to steal any power, but wouldn't the bindpoint to plug in those abilities still matter?

I can think of an explanation for this in a few ways: 1 either the Connection element is solely tied to the Metal's intrinsic properties and just automatically Connects you to Autonomy regardless of the power's functionality, 2 perhaps the bindpoints for the power or powers granted by Trellium were simply more flexible than most, 3 the Inquisitor table doesn't reliably tell which Realmatic bindpoints fit into which general section of the body- even if the upper body is used primarily for physical attributes by Inquisitors, other attributes can be slotted into other bindpoints on the upper body too. Which, given Vin's Seeker earring, perhaps this is the case and the Cycle's Trellium spike held A-bronze or some other power that fit there.

Thoughts on this?

[Entr0pic He/him]

37 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

You know, I was struck by something odd and re-checked my copy of TLM.

Marasi pulls out Set bad guy's spikes, including a Trellium spike. All of which are embedded in the ribs.

Later, Wax makes an earring from the Trellium, which seems to Connect him to Telsin, Autonomy's almost-Avatar on Scadrial. 

  Hide contents

Instead, she ripped aside his shirt- revealing four spikes pounded in deep between his ribs. As she suspected. 

TLM- pg. 49

Dang it. He was going to have to at least try. He pulled the Trellium earring out and slipped it into his ear.

He felt a jolt and a disconnect, like the coach he was riding in had hit a bump. Different from when he talked to Harmony.

TLM- pg. 193 (yes, yes, I filtered Wax's profanity. Sue me.)

According to the Inquisitor table, there are no physical powers "between the ribs" as Marasi describes the Cycle's, but there are only physical power bindpoints around the head and shoulders.

Now, Trellium seems to mimic Atium's ability to steal any power, but wouldn't the bindpoint to plug in those abilities still matter?

I can think of an explanation for this in a few ways: 1 either the Connection element is solely tied to the Metal's intrinsic properties and just automatically Connects you to Autonomy regardless of the power's functionality, 2 perhaps the bindpoints for the power or powers granted by Trellium were simply more flexible than most, 3 the Inquisitor table doesn't reliably tell which Realmatic bindpoints fit into which general section of the body- even if the upper body is used primarily for physical attributes by Inquisitors, other attributes can be slotted into other bindpoints on the upper body too. Which, given Vin's Seeker earring, perhaps this is the case and the Cycle's Trellium spike held A-bronze or some other power that fit there.

Thoughts on this?

Damm, that’s a good catch. I don’t have answers, but i have guesses

1: maybe TLR withheld some bindpoints even to his inquisitors, and this is some new kind of bindpoint?

2: we know god metals are a tad wierd. Maybe they have different spike bindpoints then the base metals and the Scadrian god metals?

3: they simply misplaced the spike during the process?

 

[Treamayne]

 

1 hour ago, Trusk'our said:

According to the Inquisitor table, there are no physical powers "between the ribs" as Marasi describes the Cycle's, but there are only physical power bindpoints around the head and shoulders.

The Inquisitor table is . . . for Inquisitors. WoB:

Spoiler

Chaos2651

Is there a rationale to how Hemalurgic powers are distributed? I tried to look for a system, but they seem rather randomly distributed. For example, the spike which steals Allomantic powers for a particular quadrant is not always in one particular spot.

Brandon Sanderson

That is correct, it's not always in one particular spot. None of them are. I used as my model on this magic system the concept of acupuncture and pressure points. Placing a Hemalurgic spike is a very delicate and specific art. Imagine there being a different overlay on a human body, like a new network of nerves, representing lines, points, and 'veins' of the soul's spiritual makeup.

What is happening with Hemalurgy, essentially, is that you're driving a spike through a specific point on a person's body and ripping off a piece of their soul. It sticks to the spike on the Spiritual Realm. Then, you place that spike on someone else in a specific place (not exactly the same place, but on the right spiritual pressure point) and 'hot wire' the spirit to give it Hemalurgy or Feruchemy. It's like you're fooling the spiritual DNA, creating a work-around. Or, in some cases, changing the spirit to look like something else, which has the immediate effect of distorting the body and transforming it into a new creature.

Hemalurgy is a very brutal way of making changes like this, though, so it often has monstrous effects. (Like with the koloss.) And in most cases, it leaves a kind of 'hole' in the spirit's natural defenses, which is how Ruin was able to touch the souls of Hemalurgists directly.

Barnes and Noble Book Club Q&A (July 8, 2009)

Have you looked at Acupressure/Acupuncture maps?
There are likely many many bind points between the ribs. Perusing my Encyclopedia of Dim Mak, I see points in the intercostal spaces in Major Meridians for Bladder, Kidney, Stomach, Spleen, and (sparse) Gallbladder. Examples (nude sketch warning):

Spoiler

Note that the examples share the same intercostal space, but the distance from the spinal column defines the point's location within that space.

Just because that was what was known at the end of Era 1, does not mean that those are the only options. Also, some of the Bind Pints are likely to be in the Dorsal (back) intercostal spaces; but for a spike that pierces all of the way though, you could probably reach both Ventral and Dorsal points from either side.

1 hour ago, Trusk'our said:

Now, Trellium seems to mimic Atium's ability to steal any power, but wouldn't the bindpoint to plug in those abilities still matter?

We only see two abilities from the unnamed Cycle (F-Pewter and F-Gold) so we don't even know which, if either, the Trellium spike was. Or what the function of the Trellium spike was, if it was not one of his stolen Metalborn powers. 

We do know that Vin used a Bronze Earring and had Double Bronze for her bindpoint - but Wax's steel earring didn't grant powers - mostly because it had so little charge remaining, but also possibly because it wasn't the correct bind point for the metal - but that point doesn't seem to matter for a simple Connection without gaining an ability. So, using a Trellium Earring may not matter that the Ear Bindpoint is for Mental Quadrant powers with a non-Mental Quadrant spike. The Connection is formed even without the power being allocated.

Hope that helps.

Edited March 12, 2025 by Treamayne
SPAG

[Terrisman]

2 hours ago, Treamayne said:

 

The Inquisitor table is . . . for Inquisitors. WoB:

  Hide contents

Chaos2651

Is there a rationale to how Hemalurgic powers are distributed? I tried to look for a system, but they seem rather randomly distributed. For example, the spike which steals Allomantic powers for a particular quadrant is not always in one particular spot.

Brandon Sanderson

That is correct, it's not always in one particular spot. None of them are. I used as my model on this magic system the concept of acupuncture and pressure points. Placing a Hemalurgic spike is a very delicate and specific art. Imagine there being a different overlay on a human body, like a new network of nerves, representing lines, points, and 'veins' of the soul's spiritual makeup.

What is happening with Hemalurgy, essentially, is that you're driving a spike through a specific point on a person's body and ripping off a piece of their soul. It sticks to the spike on the Spiritual Realm. Then, you place that spike on someone else in a specific place (not exactly the same place, but on the right spiritual pressure point) and 'hot wire' the spirit to give it Hemalurgy or Feruchemy. It's like you're fooling the spiritual DNA, creating a work-around. Or, in some cases, changing the spirit to look like something else, which has the immediate effect of distorting the body and transforming it into a new creature.

Hemalurgy is a very brutal way of making changes like this, though, so it often has monstrous effects. (Like with the koloss.) And in most cases, it leaves a kind of 'hole' in the spirit's natural defenses, which is how Ruin was able to touch the souls of Hemalurgists directly.

Barnes and Noble Book Club Q&A (July 8, 2009)

Have you looked at Acupressure/Acupuncture maps?
There are likely many many bind points between the ribs. Perusing my Encyclopedia of Dim Mak, I see points in the intercostal spaces in Major Meridians for Bladder, Kidney, Stomach, Spleen, and (sparse) Gallbladder. Examples (nude sketch warning):

  Hide contents

Note that the examples share the same intercostal space, but the distance from the spinal column defines the point's location within that space.

Just because that was what was known at the end of Era 1, does not mean that those are the only options. Also, some of the Bind Pints are likely to be in the Dorsal (back) intercostal spaces; but for a spike that pierces all of the way though, you could probably reach both Ventral and Dorsal points from either side.

We only see two abilities from the unnamed Cycle (F-Pewter and F-Gold) so we don't even know which, if either, the Trellium spike was. Or what the function of the Trellium spike was, if it was not one of his stolen Metalborn powers. 

We do know that Vin used a Bronze Earring and had Double Bronze for her bindpoint - but Wax's steel earring didn't grant powers - mostly because it had so little charge remaining, but also possibly because it wasn't the correct bind point for the metal - but that point doesn't seem to matter for a simple Connection without gaining an ability. So, using a Trellium Earring may not matter that the Ear Bindpoint is for Mental Quadrant powers with a non-Mental Quadrant spike. The Connection is formed even without the power being allocated.

Hope that helps.

Storms your on top of everything @Treamayne

[Trusk'our he/him]

8 hours ago, Treamayne said:

The Inquisitor table is . . . for Inquisitors. WoB:

Well, yes, it's just that it's been one of our only sources to determine the general areas that powered spikes can go. I hadn’t considered very much that temporal or spiritual bindpoints might be in the head because we had little evidence for it (the one exception being Vin's earring as a mental quadrant power).

To me at least this felt like a discovery, though maybe just a small one.

9 hours ago, Treamayne said:

Have you looked at Acupressure/Acupuncture maps?
There are likely many many bind points between the ribs. Perusing my Encyclopedia of Dim Mak, I see points in the intercostal spaces in Major Meridians for Bladder, Kidney, Stomach, Spleen, and (sparse) Gallbladder. Examples (nude sketch warning):

Note that the examples share the same intercostal space, but the distance from the spinal column defines the point's location within that space.

I hadn’t looked at accupuncture before, no.

I know Hemalurgy's inspired by it, but I didn't really feel it a reliable enough connection to make good theories on where spikes go.

9 hours ago, Treamayne said:

We only see two abilities from the unnamed Cycle (F-Pewter and F-Gold) so we don't even know which, if either, the Trellium spike was. Or what the function of the Trellium spike was, if it was not one of his stolen Metalborn powers. 

We do know that Vin used a Bronze Earring and had Double Bronze for her bindpoint - but Wax's steel earring didn't grant powers - mostly because it had so little charge remaining, but also possibly because it wasn't the correct bind point for the metal - but that point doesn't seem to matter for a simple Connection without gaining an ability. So, using a Trellium Earring may not matter that the Ear Bindpoint is for Mental Quadrant powers with a non-Mental Quadrant spike. The Connection is formed even without the power being allocated.

Good points.

9 hours ago, Entr0pic said:

Damm, that’s a good catch.

Thanks! I appreciate it.

9 hours ago, Entr0pic said:

1: maybe TLR withheld some bindpoints even to his inquisitors, and this is some new kind of bindpoint?

. . .

3: they simply misplaced the spike during the process?

Given Vin had a functional earring for a mental power in the general area Inquisitors reserve for physical powers, I'd probably guess now that there are just more functional bindpoints for powers than utilized up to this point.

There's also just a possibility that Connection is a simple enough attribute that there is less possibility for it to go wrong- if it's just a bridge between to organisms, it's probably easier to staple on anywhere than, say, the spiritual version of a liver.

9 hours ago, Entr0pic said:

2: we know god metals are a tad wierd. Maybe they have different spike bindpoints then the base metals and the Scadrian god metals?

Maybe, maybe. I have a harder time with this concept, as it's my current belief that the contents of the spike matter far more than the material of said spike. If you wanted to add an arm to human, you'd graft it onto the ribcage for the necessary support, not the foot.

But, Trellium specifically has extra functions, like protecting from external influences, so maybe it's different for Godmetals.

[Treamayne]

56 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

I know Hemalurgy's inspired by it, but I didn't really feel it a reliable enough connection to make good theories on where spikes go.

If I had to guess, based on known information, I would think Brandon would assign Quadrants to the Meridians (but probably not use all of the Meridians, and/or all points on the Meridians) so, based on the above examples - the Stomach meridian bind points would be one quadrant, and Kidney would be a different quadrant (with the bladder and spleen (not pictured) being the other two quadrants) - placing all four metals in the ribcage area but different points in that area. The same could apply to Meridians like Heart and Liver, whose primary points are in the arms and shoulders. Example:

Spoiler

Hope that helps