Qianweilian He/him Posted March 10, 2025 Posted March 10, 2025 18 minutes ago, Nitpicking said: The first one punches a hole in his Shardplate. How would aluminum punch through something that hard and heavy. Even without stormlight, it's still plate armor 1
Nitpicking Posted March 10, 2025 Posted March 10, 2025 2 minutes ago, Qianweilian said: How would aluminum punch through something that hard and heavy. Even without stormlight, it's still plate armor Many ways, most obviously by having a certain gunsmith create a steel bullet with a thin aluminum coating. Trivial, now that they have electricity on Scadrial. Don't underestimate the advantage that better technology will give the Scadrians in the coming war. 2
therunner he/him Posted March 10, 2025 Posted March 10, 2025 (edited) 4 hours ago, Nitpicking said: Even I think that's overstated. Depends on the details. Example: Wax shoots Kaladin with two aluminum rounds. The first one punches a hole in his Shardplate. The second punches a hole in his head. Kaladin falls down dead. There's no physical or Realmatic reason that wouldn't work. It's just that Brandon wouldn't write it. If that is your argument, then by your logic Wax beats TLR, Herads and basically anyone. It works...if you ignore the fact that Wax's opponent can do something, and many other things. Wax might break Plate with one bullet, but he certainly won't do it with aluminum one, it is too soft and too light a metal. Even if it is aluminum coating, that means Wax cannot push on the bullet, and per other WoBs plate will resist bullets quite well, so those bullets won't either. Quote VindicationKnight To what extent could Shardplate resist a bullet? Brandon Sanderson Plate would resist a bullet well. /r/books AMA 2015 (July 15, 2015) Which means he has to resort to regular bullets to try and break the plate, and those will be affected by Reverse Lashings. Even if he can shatter section with one bullet, his target is moving at speeds he has never encountered, Windrunner casually travel at 300 mph, and they are constantly accelerating. There is nothing on Scadrial that is even remotely behaving like that (Steelrunners being closest, and we see how 'well' Wax does against those). Wax has ~2 seconds to kill Kaladin, if he doesn't do that he is deader than a doornail. And frankly, he simply won't pull that off, even if Kaladin wasn't Herald. Kaladin is Stronger (Plate + Stormlight) Faster (Plate + Stormlight + Lashings) More agile (Stormlight) with better reflexes (Stormlight + Plate) Better armored (Plate) Heals (Stormlight) Wax has gun, which will break one Section of Shardplate with two-three bullets (in perfect circumstances it might be single bullet) Quote Questioner How many shots would it take for Wax using his gun to break a section of Shardplate? Brandon Sanderson Depends on the gun... Okay, so Vindication. He could probably... depends on the bullet, cause he's got several styles. But let's just say two or three. There's an argument he could do it with one, with the right shot, the right bullet, in the right moment. Orem Signing (March 16, 2019) Seriously, how is this even a question? Wax can win only if everything aligns perfectly for him, and he has proper equipment made for him. Kaladin just shows up. 4 hours ago, Nitpicking said: Many ways, most obviously by having a certain gunsmith create a steel bullet with a thin aluminum coating. Trivial, now that they have electricity on Scadrial. Don't underestimate the advantage that better technology will give the Scadrians in the coming war. Scadrial technology as of TLM couldn't even beat Roseite golem, and that is strictly worse than Shardplate. (Roseite is soft and brittle, Shardplate is anything but that, even without source of Investiture). So as of end of TLM no, Scadrial technology has nothing that can do damage to Shardplate easily. Edited March 10, 2025 by therunner 1
Qianweilian He/him Posted March 10, 2025 Posted March 10, 2025 2 hours ago, therunner said: Scadrial technology has nothing that can do damage to Shardplate easily To be fair, they were just shooting guns at the roseite. If you're giving Wax all of Scadrian tech, he could probably use dynamite or something. Not that it would help against a Windrunner though.
Nitpicking Posted March 11, 2025 Posted March 11, 2025 I agree that Kaladin overpowers Wax, and I even said that upthread from here. I just don't think Wax is helpless. Don't forget, Wax is now a Mistborn. He could burn bendalloy and fire 20 rounds from inside a speed bubble in 1/10 of a second. Yes, Kaladin also gets speed, a different way, as a Herald, but still impressive. Also, as a Mistborn who is a Skimmer, he can compound iron. I have no idea what that would let him do, mind you. Yank really hard on metal?
AsherCrane Posted March 11, 2025 Posted March 11, 2025 Worth remembering here, Kaladin doesn't know how to, and has not yet even attempted to, use any herald powers at the end of WaT. Also, though he can use it, he's not 100% competant with plate either. It straight up hindered him in the fight against Nale. Not saying this means Wax would certainly win, just something for people to factor in.
therunner he/him Posted March 11, 2025 Posted March 11, 2025 (edited) 14 hours ago, Qianweilian said: To be fair, they were just shooting guns at the roseite. If you're giving Wax all of Scadrian tech, he could probably use dynamite or something. Not that it would help against a Windrunner though. Well if we are at point were we are giving Wax anything and everything Scadrial has, then clearly Wax is outclassed. Shardplate is still relevant into Era 4 Cosmere, that alone suggests that Era 2 tech is simply not up to par. 8 hours ago, Nitpicking said: Don't forget, Wax is now a Mistborn. He is barely a Mistborn, weak enough that he literally does not notice it for days. Quote He could burn bendalloy and fire 20 rounds from inside a speed bubble in 1/10 of a second. You cannot shoot out of bubble with any accuracy, that is one of their main features, bullets ricochet randomly, so no, he couldn't. Not to mention, his bendalloy bubbles would likely barely compress time at all, certainly not to extent Wayne is doing (who has decades of practice mind you). Kaladin would defeat Vin when just on 3rd Oath , Wax is nowhere near that, and Kaladin is now 5th Ideal. In a straightup fight, Surgebinders outclass Metalborn quite hard. Quote Questioner Who’d win, Vin or Kaladin? Brandon Sanderson On a battlefield Kaladin, off a battlefield probably Vin. Calamity Seattle signing (Feb. 17, 2016) Quote Also, as a Mistborn who is a Skimmer, he can compound iron. I have no idea what that would let him do, mind you. Yank really hard on metal? It would let him do what he already does, just more often (i.e. tap weight massively to put more weight behind his pushes), it wouldn't qualitatively change what he can push on. 5 hours ago, AsherCrane said: Worth remembering here, Kaladin doesn't know how to, and has not yet even attempted to, use any herald powers at the end of WaT. Also, though he can use it, he's not 100% competant with plate either. He is still more practiced with it than Wax is with Mistborn powers, who he barely realized he has. Quote It straight up hindered him in the fight against Nale. Nale is also among 10 best warriors on the entire planet, with literal millennia of experience, who also is aware of Plate and its limitations. Wax, isn't and does not know anything about Plate. Kaladin was easily fighting multiple Fused seconds after getting the Plate, so he is still quite good with it. Edited March 11, 2025 by therunner
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